Trump vs NFL , trump won

Discussion in 'Current Events & Politics' started by godsquadgeek, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. brujaq

    brujaq Member

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    I've experienced similar things and spoke to and calmed many who even thought they had committed the unpardonable sin .
     
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  2. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    Well good on you then. :)
     
  3. Politico

    Politico Member

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    Well, the good news is, Christian, that is a bunch of non-sense. You have listened to the wrong folk. Go ahead now, pick yourself up off the floor. God's Word has not and would not instruct you to evangelize and then tell you at the same time to expect nothing but the de-Christianization of the world. See the contradiction there? Now, go be a good conservative Christian like the good Lord has intended for you to be. Go on, now.
     
  4. Politico

    Politico Member

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    Yes, I am sure regressive Leftist deconstructionists/poststructuralists--aka Postmodernist ignorants--would love that. One of their favorite pastimes is maligning and attempting to remove/destroy good traditional American values/practices in the name of one or more lies.
     
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  5. Northman

    Northman Member

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    Really?
     
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  6. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    I don't know what you get from "brother against brother" but to me that seems like there is gonna be a lot of turmoil, confusion, and misunderstandings. Even a Christian can disagree with a Christian. We are doing that right now and if doomsday gets knocked up to 11, I imagine it will be worse. End times are not a pretty picture. But I suppose that is where you stand on the Rapture debate. Though even those left behind can still turn to God, and they are gonna be in a world that despises them.
     
  7. Politico

    Politico Member

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    I believe there is no salvation for the non-Sealed after the 1 Thess. 4:17 event, excepting those children born after. There are only three categories of people mentioned in Rev. 9, post-Rapture. Those are: 1) the 144,000 sealed (twelve tribes of Israel ), 2) those killed by the plagues, and 3) those who remain unrepentant. There is no mentioned 4th category of Gentiles supposedly getting saved after the Rapture. And no, the 144,000 sealed tribes are not a symbolic reference to the Church rather than to Israel.

    One time a relative of mine was at a Church where some teens proclaimed that they did not have to worry about coming to Christ immediately because they would have a second chance later if they missed the Rapture. Now, do you believe the Good Lord Jesus would teach a doctrine that would encourage or enable such resistance to the immediate need for salvation if indeed the Doctrine of Imminency is true?
     
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  8. Politico

    Politico Member

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    Timing. I believe your "brother against brother" reference is mis-timed and miscalculated in its interpretation.
     
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  9. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    Hhhhmmm. I will concede it seems I am mistaken. Based off the scripture you posted I suppose that when it comes that's it. So brother against brother is regards to gentiles, who post rapture are effectively damned? But what of the 12 Tribes? You said they are still around right? What becomes of them? Also, you still ain't changing my political leanings. ;)
     
  10. Politico

    Politico Member

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    I would like to suggest the following for your consideration:

    1) There is an inherent contradiction present with simultaneously supporting the idea that your nation must somehow become increasingly wicked (as some kind of pre-condition to the Rapture) and trying to fulfill the New Testament mandate to evangelize and be the Salt of the Earth. No matter how you figure it, if you seek to effect any kind of positive change in society, and yet hold to the idea of widespread, inevitable decline (as a precondition to the 1 Thess. 4:17 event), you are walking in a contradiction and minimizing your ability to effect positive change in your society. Even the fulfillment of 1 Timothy 2:1-2 requires one to at least indirectly effect positive change in society. How? Well, it seems reasonable to assume that if your prayers do positively effective your leaders or their actions, then that will directly translate into some kind of positive change in society occurring through the positive change in your leaders or their actions. So even those Christians who believe they have a supposed biblical responsibility not to get involved in politics are in fact getting involved in politics by attempting to fulfill 1 Timothy 2:1-2.

    2) The present moral evil in this world; is it 1) the result of some biblical prophecy that serves the role as a precondition of the 1Thess. 1:14 event? or 2) is it simply the result of the modern Church having failed miserably to completely fulfill its role as the Salt of the Earth because it has misunderstood what the Word has to say about end time events and conditions? In other worlds, what happens when the Church ceases to try to change society through prayer and other means because it believes that such effort is rendered useless by some supposed prophetical precondition? The current popular view on end time events and conditions is not what it was earlier in American history.

    3) Those verses that do indeed predict inevitable moral decline ether have already happened or will happen, post-Rapture. Some examples, Matthew 24:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

    4) I find no evidence that Biblical predictions concerning unusual activity in nature, such as quakes or signs in the heavens, require concurrent moral decline in society as a preconditon to the Rapture event.

    What I am suggesting to you is that I have found no Scriptural basis for adhering to the idea of Pre-Rapture, widespread, moral, inevitable decline occurring as a precondition to the 1 Thess. 4:17 event. In adhering to such, a person not only causes difficulty for themselves, but also for others by furthering biblical doctrine that actually has served to weaken the role of God's Church in the modern era, the role of being the Salt of the Earth and shining lights of hope. What kind of miserable helpers are we if we proclaim to everyone that society must become a miserable heap of hopeless evil in the immediate future?
     
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  11. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    So this doomsday I am seeing is post rapture, not pre? I suppose I see what you're saying, but who says I haven't prayed for Trump? I have but I don't see any good coming from it at the moment. Maybe it will if I keep on keeping on, but his methods have yet to alter and I am not of the opinion he is a Christian, based off his actions and behavior. I'll still pray for the man, but I'm not gonna pretend America will always be in the right out of some misguided patriotism. Right is right regardless of the nation it comes from, and if I think we're going down the wrong path it is my duty to say so. I think the more concerning thing to me is the sentiment that America CAN'T be wrong. That simply isn't true. If the nation is led by Man it can fall. You can shout to the sky "God's got my back" as a leader but only a fool is going to believe that if your actions and behavoir aren't those of God and His way. Show me the scripture where it says "America will lead us to God" or "America is suppose to be a Christian paradise, they are the chosen ones" or something like that, cause if you can't your opinion is no more valid than mine. I wouldn't be so irritated if people didn't treat like it was a fact. It isn't. All there is to it. America CAN fall. The second we forget that and act as such is the second it does. We don't know the roles the major nations will play in the end, and sure America is obviously gonna be big actor in the final play, but that could fall on either side of good or evil. And in the end it doesn't matter who does what anyway, because Jesus doesn't care about the flag you fly. Christians are all over the world, and only He is gonna save them.
     
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  12. Politico

    Politico Member

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    Yes, of course. And I don't claim that America will always be in the right.

    Yes, I believe so. Those Bible passages that spell out doom or inevitable moral decline make much more sense in a new era where the Holy Spirit is no longer restraining sin, as suggested in 2 Thessalonians 2:7, does it not? Imagine, if you would, an era where the Gentile Church is no longer on the earth and is no longer interceding for the nations to restrain evil. Imagine an era or dispensation where there is no longer a mandate to evangelize the nations, which seems likely in a post-Rapture world. The 144,000 can evangelize among themselves, but I don't believe they will have a mandate to evangelize the Gentiles during the 7 or more years occurring between the 1 Thess. 4:17 and Matthew 24:30-31 events. Do you see why there is good reasons to believe that inevitable moral decline makes more sense in a post-Rapture era? I have much more evidence to support this course of interpretation, but that is for a different forum. But for every verse or combination of verses that I have come across, that is used to defend the position that moral decline is supposedly inevitable prior to the 1 Thess. 4:17 event, I have prayed and understood there to be very reasonable alternative interpretations. And if these alternatives are at least possible, then why preach or teach pre-Rapure, inevitable moral decline? I have gained little to none of this from man except one important aspect pertaining to the the separation of the 1 Thess. 4:17 event and the Matthew 24:30-31 events.

    Your comment brings up another import principle in God's Word; namely being lead by the Holy Spirit when praying for our leaders, or praying for anything for that matter. The principle of effective prayer. Colossians 1:18 makes it clear that Christ is to be central to everything with think or do.This necessarily includes are prayers and prayer life. So what I suggest to anyone concerning what to pray for concerning leaders is to first ask the Lord to reveal to us what to prayer for ( to know His will) and how to pray for it.

    I believe God is willing to guide us in even the small details and matters in life. I once worked through completing a particular job that I took on, and several times in the course of completing this job I had no clue what to do. But before and during such difficult points I prayed and asked for the Lord's guidance, and I swear to you that at each difficult point, I had received a very distinct and real impression to do a certain thing, and the whole project turned out great. This kind of real and strong leading occurs frequently in my life. Many Christians though struggle sometimes to understand how to discern between real impressions/guidance from God and impressions from other sources that can mislead.

    Concerning Trump, I can only say at this time that I knew he would win the presidency, even during the primaries, because God told me he would. I also received a strong impression that he would select Pence as his vice pres before he selected him. I support him mainly because God Almighty has directed me to do so. I have been saved for many years and I believe I can discern God's leading and false impressions.
     
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  13. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    I can't tell you what God told you on Trump but I can say I haven't heard what you have XD. Yet we are both Christians. So one of us is mistaken here, but I can't assume it is you. Could well be me, could not be. Who knows but Him? That is what faith is for. As long as we're both coming back to God that's all that matters anyway. I hope I am wrong on him. I really do. What do I have to gain for the country going to heck in a handbasket? Lol I would love to wake up one day and get the impression that everything was swell or have God pop a thought in my head or something. Hasn't happened yet. Maybe it will eventually, and for my sanity I hope it does. :tongue
     
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  14. Politico

    Politico Member

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    Let me clarify. I understand there to be a distinction between inevitable doomsday, and doomsday occurring as the result of the Church failing in its obligations to God. Also, the extent to which the prayers of the Saints can alter natural disasters, I am not sure; although, I know that even natural disasters have been avoided or minimized through prayers.

    I also believe Satan wants to bring ruin to the nations prior to the Rapture, and I believe the prayers and work of the Saints can disrupt those plans. I also believe God wants us to disrupt those plans. I also understand and believe that God Almighty has chosen to largely work through the prayers of the saints. For example, "Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth laborers into his harvest" (Matthew 9:38). Is there anything more important than God's laborers laboring in and for His Kingdom? Now, If this critical portion of God's plan for mankind and His Church is truly dependent on our prayers, to whatever extent, then what other important aspects of God's kingdom/plans and desire for the Church and man is dependent upon your prayers and the prayers of the Saints of God? First and foremost, through prayer, you are a God-ordained agent of change. You are a co-laborer of Christ. In this way Christ certainly needs you, I and the rest of His Church.
     
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  15. Mozart's Starling

    Mozart's Starling Member

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    On the power of prayer to me its primary importance always struck me not necessarily to inflict change, but to acknowledge that God is the only one who can truly bring it and for you to humble yourself before him and acknowledge that fact. I say this because what do you say in cases where a good, Christian family has something horrible happen, like a close family member is seriously injured in a car wreck. If the whole family is praying for him, should he not recover? Your thinking would imply it would. Problem is we know things happen in spite of prayers. Prayed for members die sometimes in spite of your wishes. So I think some points ARE fixed. They'd have to be, God's plan is God's plan, the only thing you have control of is how you let it affect you and whether or not you come back to Him. At the same time I know there is a verse in the Bible that says "ask and you shall recieve" so that does seem to apply change. So maybe some points are fixed and others aren't. I dunno. Good thing we'll have an eternity to figure it out eh? ;)
     
  16. Politico

    Politico Member

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    I believe there is more than sufficient Scripture to support the contention that Prayer is a powerful tool/weapon/means that involves not only worship/thanks but also a means to effect change according to God's will.

    A relative of mine was horribly burned as a child. Doctor told her mother that she would not live to see the next day. Her mother got the Church together to pray. Next day the mother goes to the hospital and her daughter is gone. Mother panics, thinking daughter has died. She then finds her daughter in the child's play room playing--and healed. The previous day there was a raw, weeping wound. Now it was just a scar. Looked like an old scar. Doctor wrote in his notes that it was the work of a higher power.

    I believe God's provisions are ours according to knowledge, intent, and capacity (KIC). I believe healing is a provision for all unless God Almighty specifically states that He will not heal someone. For example, a relative dying in the hospital and they have finished their race. God might want to take them home. That is key: what is God's will , and will He reveal that will to us.

    1) Knowledge: Once a truth is revealed to us, we are then held accountable to that truth and expected to operate according to that truth as God helps us to do that.

    2) Intent: God takes into consideration our intentions. Sins of ignorance were not treated the same as sins committed "with a high hand." Right/wrong motivations and knowledge or lack thereof effect are intentions.

    3) Capacity: God will not require of us that which we are unable to do.

    The above relates to healing and prayers. Our prayers are strengthened when we believe that what we are praying for is God's will. Some Christians believe that God can heal someone; however, they do not believe that God necessarily will heal that someone. That is a major problem if it is God's will to heal that someone. Here we have a problem concerning knowledge; or rather, a lack thereof. Even if God reveals to us that he wants to heal someone, will might disqualify ourselves as an agent of change because we are focused on our own sins and failures. Christians often disqualify themselves because of their dual-focus: they have one eye on their own failings and sins and one eye on the cross. This places a Christian on unstable ground and will have negatives consequences concerning God's will for our lives.

    Our level or degree of faith is effected by what we believe is true concerning what we are praying for. Our degree of faith effects the outcome concerning what we are praying for. The end results of others cannot be our absolute guide concerning the nature of prayer and its effects, even though personal experience can be a source of truth-- according to the leading and assurance of the Holy Spirit. This is due to possible problems involved in such outcomes that arise from a lack of knowledge or willful rebellion or even the failure to engage in necessary spiritual disciplines, such as bible reading (to gain necessary knowledge and encouragement) or prayer. Continuing on with a poor prayer life will effect outcomes concerning payers for healings and obtaining other provisions of God.
     
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  17. Politico

    Politico Member

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    Having the "mind of Christ" gives us dominion over the elements of the world. I believe there is an abundance of Scriptural evidence that Christ has given us the faith and authority to bring to pass His will.
     
  18. brujaq

    brujaq Member

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    I'm not convinced of pre or post trib .. We do know that satan does not cast out satan .. As long as Trump supports Israel and does things like declare national days of prayer plus encourage and allow Christian principles I'll be in his corner .. The fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much . We have not because we ask not then we receive not because we ask amiss .. Jesus did not heal every one because of their unbelief .. I prayed for a child who was born without a hand and a foot . There was no doubt in my mind that God could grow him a new hand and a foot .. So I began to fast and pray, I was determined .. After 7 days of fasting and asking God to make the child normal Jesus spoke to me and said ''what you call normal and what I call normal can differ'' I then got a vision of a young black man grown up hobbling up a street full of the love of God and grace, his community loved him for his love of God, his strength and humility .. The Lord said he would have hardships but that he and his mother had already been provided for , that he would be inspiration for many and that he would bring 40, 60, 100, times more glory the way God had made him than what I called normal .. Then suppose he was made ''what I call normal'', suppose he used his natural ability , good looks , good personality to go after worldly things and turn from God . I found his young mother to tell her the vision .. And another person, an old woman alone after her sister died with a lifelong hideous skin disease from birth . I had met and been sent to minister to her (long story) but people had shunned her and some had made fun of her most her life, I had a vision of her in heaven (which I got up the nerve to tell her ,I've never seen a smile so big), not going into it now but the point is many would be partially judged how they had treated her on Earth while she remained faithful to Jesus and suffered , don't worry, when I saw her in heaven she had received a crown and a special mark from God and believe me she was plenty fine in heaven , strong, handsome, dignified in Christ and very very pleased and satisfied .. I've seen many healed, I've seen some healed enough to function . Some may be called to repent by a sickness . Some may be turned over for the destruction of the flesh who refuse to repent and tomorrow is not guaranteed to anyone .. Then there are some who were appointed to pray for certain people who neglected their mission and rejected Jesus to begin with and will be held accountable at judgment .. I know I have fallen short too but I'm covered by the blood of the Lamb and my tears will be wiped away ..
    What it means to me is that I'm thankful now for my hardships, thankful I wasn't too rich, thankful I wasn't too popular ,too smart, too anything that would have kept me from finding salvation in the Lord and seeking God ..
     
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  19. jasonc

    jasonc Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    I'm not a tribber of any type.

    Shots fired.oh and I'm not the only on the forum.
     
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  20. Politico

    Politico Member

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    I second that.
     

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