Turn the other cheek ?

[follower of Christ]

No need to quote that post, shad. I wont be deleting anything.
What Ive said I stand by.

 

[shad]

FOC,

You are hopeless to debate.

Try to be more honest in your debates instead of trying to make your opponents like idiots. You have been misusing and abusing the Scripture and add your own commandments.

I let Drew handle you. He has patience with you. I don't.

take care.

 

[follower of Christ]

FOC,

You are hopeless to debate.

Youre right, I am.
Debate is like surgery...precise and right to the heart.
Few can handle it when the knife is turned in THEIR direction...
One reason why some here keep having to hit the report button...they cant handle the truth so they have to try to silence it.

Some here like to push 'commands' that ARENT in scripture on others while they themselves ignore the CLEAR commandments of Christ.
Its humorous at best.

Try to be more honest in your debates instead of trying to make your opponents like idiots.

its pretty funny to hear YOU tell ME to be honest, chap, when *I* am the one here with CLEAR scriptures giving an ACTUAL commandment of Christ while you have provided absolutely nothing relevant.

You have been misusing and abusing the Scripture and add your own commandments.

Sorry gent but I have done nothing of the sort.
YOU claim we arent allowed to use a weapon to deter crime and the burden of proof is on YOU to support that claim.
You havent in the least with anything that is actually relevant.

*I* claimed that Jesus said you are to give to EVERYONE who asks of you and *I* supported that statement with VERY clear scripture....a point you apparently dont want to talk about.

I let Drew handle you.

Handle....thats a hoot.
Hitting the report button very other post is hardly 'handling' anything.

He has patience with you. I don't.

take care.

Send drew on in.
I have the same questions for him this time around.

.

 

[GojuBrian]

.
Hey Drew, Free and Shad, come to Cleveland sometime, I know some really nice neighborhoods full of poor people who know how to behave, and I know of neighborhood that are so aweful horrid you'd want to turn around and scram as fast as you cross the street to enter into it. I could drop you off and let you turn your other cheek when they come to beat the crap out of you just for the fun of it. Or you could try and talk your way out of it, how would you like that? ;)
.

I live in an unsafe neighborhood. My family and I still don't carry around guns to protect ourselves.

I trust Jesus' commandment of "love your enemy" and we don't intend to kill our enemy. If I have to be killed because I honored Jesus' commandment, that is my desire.

I carry guns around, legally. I also love my enemies. Like I've stated before, if something terrible happens to someone while in the midst of trying to do evil to another it's their own fault not mine. I would do only what I was forced to do at the time, no more, and that is not being violent, it's loving those around me and being the protector as I am commanded to do.

I know a guy who was recently involved in a shooting in St.Louis, MO. He and his friends were taken at gun point into an apartment to be robbed and no telling what else. The guy being robbed had a concealed handgun. During the robbery the goblin becomes violent and threatening upon where the victim produces his handgun. The goblin shoots him twice and the victim returns fire missing twice and striking the goblin once through the hand and stops the attack.

Did the victim act violently? I say the victim acted courageously and potentially saved his friends lives. The victim and the goblin both lived, but who is at fault?? The goblin who was a felon just out of prison less than two weeks who posessed an illegal firearm? OR the victim who was minding his own business with his friends and lawfully carrying a handgun?

Well, the goblin is now back in prison and the victim is back out there with a new 1911 .45 that the guys over at AR15.com bought him.

Guys like that don't look for trouble. We don't wish ro do violence at all. We only want to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

This man was willing to lay his own life down for his friends. What greater love is there?

 

[follower of Christ]

Completely agree, G.

 

[shad]

This man was willing to lay his own life down for his friends. What greater love is there?

This is secular concept. Jesus' followers dont harm or kill anyone to protect themselves and others.

 

[GojuBrian]

This man was willing to lay his own life down for his friends. What greater love is there?

This is secular concept. Jesus' followers dont harm or kill anyone for protect themselves and others.

:rolling

Says who???? That's an outrageous claim? You are calling hero's villains. :crazy

As I have said before, if a goblin is killed or injured during a crime their blood is on their own hands.

 

[shad]

Says who???? That's an outrageous claim? You are calling hero's villains. :crazy

You concept is nothing but secular.

 

[GojuBrian]

This is secular concept. Jesus' followers dont harm or kill anyone for protect themselves and others.

They do if they love them. They certainly don't look for trouble though.

 

[Drew]

The fact that I do not live a violent society no more disqualifies me from offering a view on how to deal with violence that the fact that I am a man disqualifies me from a having a view on the morality of abortion.

Sure it does.
Because we're not ignorant enough to believe that, gun in hand, you wouldnt shoot a man who was about to rip YOUR child apart, drew.
you can play this game as long as you want, d....and you aint foolin anyone here.
We KNOW what youd do in that scenario.
And youd be justified in doing it.

This is, of course, misses the point yet again. The fact that I do not live in a violent society does not suddenly render me incapable of understanding that a better solution to taking up arms is to work for a society that does not need them in the first place.

Lest any think this is a pipe dream, they need to expand their horizons that there are several cultures without guns and yet with rates of violent crime far lower than in the USA.

 

[Drew]

I would vigourously encourage the reader to read through the threads in FoC's signature block.

I wouldnt have them there unless I wanted folks to see just how badly your particular agenda had been whomped, D

Well, if my arguments have been "whomped", then perhaps you, or others who believe likewise, should bring any one of my arguments up and actually show how I am mistaken.

Now I have more than two pages to catch up on - perhaps you or someone has put money where mouth is.....we'll see.

 

[Drew]

And most of the corner stores and gas stations around the area are owned and operated by Muslims who do not hesitate on second to pull a gun or a macheti [sp] on someone who walks into their store and looks like they might be a threat.

I dont see a single racist point there, friend, merely an observation.
How about NOT inserting YOUR thoughts into someone elses words ?
Oh, thats right...thats asking the impossible....

It really makes for a lot of work to correct your errors. You are spared that challenge since my rate of misreading / misrepresenting is clearly so much lower.

The reader who has been following this thread will know that I never accused Relic of racism - last time I checked, "Muslims" were not a race.

But, in any event, I need not make the case that Relic's statement is divisive and unconstructive - the very quote itself makes the case.

 

[Drew]

Sorry chap...did I name any names there ?
Hardly.

You are playing games here to try to get from a tricky situation. I will repeat the quote - it is both clear from your naming of me, and from the context of that discussion that you were talking about me.

Theres no way Im buying that Drew, standing there gun in hand, would watch his own offspring or wife be ripped apart by some lunatic and not fire to stop him, even if it meant killing the attacker.

And frankly, any man who COULD do such a thing doesnt deserve the honor of having a wife....or a child....and deserves himself to spend eternity in the same place as the attacker does if not even worse because this was no mere stranger that he watched being torn apart, but the flesh of his very flesh and bones of his bones that he covenanted before God to love as Christ loves the church whom gave His own life for her.

The callous hardheartedness it takes for a man to be capable of killing a stranger is offense enough to deserve the pits of everlasting hell.
The evil heart that could allow such a thing to be done to ones own child playing off that GOD has expected such a thing should be deserving of far worse.

Now stop insulting the intelligence of the reader by clainming that....

You read what you wanted to read into it....not my problem.

You are clearly suggesting that I am the person that deserves no wife and to be condemned to the pits of hell. Accept responsibility for your words and let's move on.

 

[Drew]

And all this, because I do not happen to shary your opinion. Now let me ask you: if the above is not "inflammatory rhetoric", what is? Perhaps you can give the reader some actual evidence of my inflammatory rhetoric?

You will, of course, deflect this challenge.

Of course I will ignore your insistence that I browse thru 100 pages of rhetoric to find something to post for your amusement. Anyone can see in THIS thread that OTHER members have already said something to you HERE in THIS thread about your mannerism and method....so theres hardly any need for me to bother finding anything else.

Code for: I cannot find an example of Drew treating me the way that I have treated him.

Again, do not insult our intelligence. You are clearly motivated to find evidence of my mistreating you as you have mistreated me. Your failure to stand by your claim that I used inflammatory rhetoric shows that your claim is false. Now let's move on.

As for my "running to the moderators" it is not me who "begs for thread closure" when I am put in awkward position. And they show you mercy, saving you from having to defend your untenable positions. You understandably asked for a thread to be closed when you were trying to cling to the position that Jesus must have known that Peter would use the that sword for self-defence.

 

[Drew]

And once again, since you clearly missed it the first dozen times in other threads...
Jesus is speaking TO hardhearted JEWS who HATED their own brethren and every sort of non Jew imaginable.
THAT is the context from which Jesus speaks.
His words ARENT TO the man who DOESNT hate his enemy but is simply protecting his loved ones from harm.
Learn some context or quit playing teacher......

This argument really goes nowhere. While there are times when we need to remember that Jesus was talking to certain people, the sermon on the mount is not one of them. If we took your line of reasoning, no statements of Jesus could be deemed binding on us since all Jesus' teachings were directed to some person or set of persons.

I am willing to bet that no major theologian would argue that the sermon on the mount - with its "love your enemies" demand is not a universal teaching.

Having said that, there is indeed a sense in which Jesus was directing his remarks that the hard-hearted Jews. But I suggest that it is clear that He is addressing them in the particularity of their hardheartedness as well as to all of His followers across the generations.

 

[Relic]

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.

 

[follower of Christ]

This man was willing to lay his own life down for his friends. What greater love is there?

This is secular concept. Jesus' followers dont harm or kill anyone to protect themselves and others.

Sorry gent but you cant make such a claim. We dont know EVERY act of Jesus or His disciples.

 

[follower of Christ]

I would vigourously encourage the reader to read through the threads in FoC's signature block.

I wouldnt have them there unless I wanted folks to see just how badly your particular agenda had been whomped, D

Well, if my arguments have been "whomped", then perhaps you, or others who believe likewise, should bring any one of my arguments up and actually show how I am mistaken.

Stop wasting our time.
The readers can see THIS thread and they can read all those threads in my sig.

Now I have more than two pages to catch up on - perhaps you or someone has put money where mouth is.....we'll see.

dude, your fallacies were roasted in the other threads and they have been here as well. Denial of that fact on your part is quite inconsequential

 

[follower of Christ]

But, in any event, I need not make the case that Relic's statement is divisive and unconstructive - the very quote itself makes the case.

No, Im afraid it doesnt.
Just like you do with scripture youve simply tried to rip a snippet out and force something into it that it doesnt say.
*IF* G had made some racist remark I know full well that moderation here would have corrected him on it.
YOU are reading something IN that isnt there, Im afraid.

 

[follower of Christ]

You are playing games here to try to get from a tricky situation.

Get back to the TOPIC Drew or Ill report you...