Under Grace not Under Law

[JLB]

What is the grace that saves?

All the grace in the world won't save a single soul, without faith.

Unconditional election is in essence Gods grace that saves.

No such thing in the Bible as unconditional election.

Please post the scripture that uses the term
Unconditional election.


JLB

 

[JLB]

And your theology is rooted in pelagianism. Or should I say the smokescreen of pelagianism, Arminianism. This is why the focus is always man centered and works oriented

My theology comes from the Bible.

A person must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.

Those who do not obey the Gospel save suffer everlasting destruction in flaming fire.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel

JLB

 

[JLB]

you just added to the plan of salvation the conditions of salvation has been paid in advance on the cross it is finished ---
"tetelestai."

It is the perfect indicative mood of the Greek verb "teleō," which means "to bring to an end" or "to complete." he paid the price we cant even begin to comprehend how sinners can be changed born again born of the spirit and water certainly we must believe you keep wanting to add more things to the plan of salvation --which can be considered works but yes salvation of it self is unconditional For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- Romans 5 Paul called it the free gift . do we need faith ? yes we do God has given us that 3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measureof faith God has given you. do i fully understand how all this works? not really kind of like the song john 3:16 little boy lost needed place to say he was told go to a place and say john 3:16 he was fed bathed warm place to say. he would say john 3';16 sure dont understand it but it works...Grace the unmerited favor of God unearned undeserved we cant buy it bargain for it.. i tried that before i got saved..tried to be a better person on my own . yes there are requirements for us after saved walk in the light confess our sins repent .justification declared not guilty by faith.. the above make salvation the gift unconditional

My theology comes from the Bible.

A person must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.

Those who do not obey the Gospel save suffer everlasting destruction in flaming fire.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel

JLB

 

[ezra]

My theology comes from the Bible.

A person must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.

Those who do not obey the Gospel save suffer everlasting destruction in flaming fire.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel

JLB

as usual you missed my point salvation grace is unconditional otherwise it is not grace but law i dont think i asked where you get your theology ..if you ask the southern baptist on osas they will tell you they get it from the Bible

 

[ezra]

Please post the scripture that uses the term

post scripture that says conditional word for word

 

[PeterJens]

Modern day Judaizers are those who deny the gospel of Christ by promoting conditional salvation based on mans works of obedience

I have seen the fruit of the theology above, and it is condemnation of ordinary faithful believers
following Christ. Jesus and the prophets came to condemn sin and encourage righteous behaviour.
The above is literally condemning righteous behaviour and saying sinful behaviour is Gods way.

 

[MCoop]

All the grace in the world won't save a single soul, without faith.



No such thing in the Bible as unconditional election.

Please post the scripture that uses the term
Unconditional election.


JLB

Read Romans 9. Salvation is all of grace conditioned solely in Christ Jesus. Those who don’t believe this, condition their salvation on their works. Those who deny unconditional election, deny salvation by grace. Those who believe you can lose eternal life in Christ by their works, don’t believe eternal life rest solely in Christ Jesus. Faith in Christ is the result of regeneration. So those who come to rest in Christ Jesus, are those whom God has chosen to save. God shows mercy to whom He wants. That’s grace! The self righteous will hate this truth and will accuse God of being unrighteous. But as Paul anticipated the objection, What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. So then it is NOT of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. Romans 9:14-16.

 

[MCoop]

My theology comes from the Bible.

A person must obey the Gospel in order to be saved.

Those who do not obey the Gospel save suffer everlasting destruction in flaming fire.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel

JLB

Those who believe their works of obedience merits eternal life, don’t believe the gospel

 

[MCoop]

I have seen the fruit of the theology above, and it is condemnation of ordinary faithful believers
following Christ. Jesus and the prophets came to condemn sin and encourage righteous behaviour.
The above is literally condemning righteous behaviour and saying sinful behaviour is Gods way.

Sure it is buddy.. Don’t sit here and accuse me of saying that just because I’m saying salvation is solely conditioned in Christ and that by grace alone. I guess Christ Jesus was condemning righteous behavior and saying sinful behavior is Gods way when He accused the Pharisees of being self righteous, according to your twisted logic.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

[

All the grace in the world won't save a single soul, without faith.



No such thing in the Bible as unconditional election.

Please post the scripture that uses the term
Unconditional election.


JLB

Please post the scripture that uses the term Trinity.

 

[Jim Parker]

Please post the scripture that uses the term Trinity.

It's not there!!!!!
OH NO MR. BILL!
But it is thoroughly supported by scripture.
Unconditional election is not supported by scripture.
To the contrary, 2Peter 3:9 indicates that all of mankind was "elected" but not all of mankind responds in the afirmative.
That is the meaning of the phrase "many are called but few are chosen."
The many who are called are everyone.
Those who are chosen are those who say, "Yes."

 

[Papyrus_dust]

"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - John Owen

Unconditional election is supported by scripture.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

2 Timothy 1:9-11 9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.


Question: "Monergism vs. synergism—which view is correct?"
....This brings us to the question of foreknowledge. Arminians will claim that foreknowledge refers to God foreknowing the faith of the elect. If that is the case, then God’s electing us is no longer based on the “good purpose of his will,” but rather on our being able to choose Him, despite our fallen condition which, according to Romans 8:7 is hostile to God and incapable of doing so. The Arminian view of foreknowledge also contradicts the clear teaching of the passages mentioned above in support of unconditional election (Ephesians 1:4-5 and Romans 9:16). This view essentially robs God of His sovereignty and places the responsibility for salvation squarely on the shoulders of creatures who are wholly incapable of saving themselves.

 

[MCoop]

"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - John Owen

Unconditional election is supported by scripture.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

2 Timothy 1:9-11 9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.


Question: "Monergism vs. synergism—which view is correct?"
....This brings us to the question of foreknowledge. Arminians will claim that foreknowledge refers to God foreknowing the faith of the elect. If that is the case, then God’s electing us is no longer based on the “good purpose of his will,” but rather on our being able to choose Him, despite our fallen condition which, according to Romans 8:7 is hostile to God and incapable of doing so. The Arminian view of foreknowledge also contradicts the clear teaching of the passages mentioned above in support of unconditional election (Ephesians 1:4-5 and Romans 9:16). This view essentially robs God of His sovereignty and places the responsibility for salvation squarely on the shoulders of creatures who are wholly incapable of saving themselves.

John Owen said it correctly! It amazes me that the Arminian will fight and fight to elevate mans will and works above Gods Sovereignty and the righteousness of Christ

 

[MCoop]

"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - John Owen

Unconditional election is supported by scripture.

Ephesians 1:3-6 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

2 Timothy 1:9-11 9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.


Question: "Monergism vs. synergism—which view is correct?"
....This brings us to the question of foreknowledge. Arminians will claim that foreknowledge refers to God foreknowing the faith of the elect. If that is the case, then God’s electing us is no longer based on the “good purpose of his will,” but rather on our being able to choose Him, despite our fallen condition which, according to Romans 8:7 is hostile to God and incapable of doing so. The Arminian view of foreknowledge also contradicts the clear teaching of the passages mentioned above in support of unconditional election (Ephesians 1:4-5 and Romans 9:16). This view essentially robs God of His sovereignty and places the responsibility for salvation squarely on the shoulders of creatures who are wholly incapable of saving themselves.

Monergism obviously is the biblical view. Good post Papyrus!

 

[reba]

The general disrespect being shown here by a few posters is totally getting out of line .. lets see if we can discuss things wiht out throwing rocks...
do not reply to this post in this thread .. have a problem with this request take it to TWITS

 

[Papyrus_dust]

John Owen said it correctly! It amazes me that the Arminian will fight and fight to elevate mans will and works above Gods Sovereignty and the righteousness of Christ

I think the last part of the Got Questions paragraph describes the works salvation premise well. It robs God of His sovereignty and places the responsibility for salvation squarely on the shoulders of creatures who are wholly incapable of saving ourselves.

Ephesians 2:8 utterly destroys any doctrine arriving from works salvation. When God chose whom would follow his son before the world came to be, it tells the reader that God chose us without us having to meet any conditions prior. Because we didn't exist. Nor did the world.
How can omniscience not know the future within its own creation?

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive .

 

[Papa Zoom]

reba, this thread needs a cool down. Maybe a full closure. And WIP and JohnDB should take a peek. They've more experience here.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Closed for review.