Under Grace not Under Law

[GodsGrace]

I wish you all the best in your Arminian theology.

You don't have an answer?

 

[MCoop]

Yes, I read that. You're most welcome. You may wish to start at any point in these 20 pages and find far more than what you're looking for. For my part, I had to take a moment to realize I was being asked, "Please post 5 verses where Jesus speaks about being saved directly." Being it appears the synoptic Gospels are unknown to you.
Then to read this declaration after the plea, "You will not find them. Because they don't exist."
Is rather shocking.

Yes going in circles with the same assertions

 

[GodsGrace]

Why object to it? You just said in this post that “we” have to behave a certain way in order to stay saved. So really you are saying our works justifies us in the end. If one believes he can lose his salvation, then that person bases his salvation on his works. Very simple to understand. Anyone who believes salvation is attained and maintained by works, bases their salvation on their works. And by doing so shows, that there is no belief in Christ and His merits alone to save and give eternal life apart from a believers works. Sounds a lot like Judaizers

You just broke so many ToS rules above, I wouldn't know where to begin.
You're not allowed to tell me what I believe. Only I know what I believe.
You're calling me a judaizer.
You're telling me, by inference, that I do not believe in Christ and His merits.

I will say only this:
No work can save us.
Ephesians 2:8
Only God can save us. He needs nothing from us. We cannot save ourselves.

After we become born again, He does require us to behave and act in a certain way.
Ephesians 2:10

We cannot be members of the Kingdom on earth, which Jesus came to establish, UNLESS we behave as we are to in HIS Kingdom.

Jesus tells us in John 14:15 that we will FOLLOW Him if we love Him.
How do we follow Jesus? By doing everything He said to do.
Try all of Mathew 5 and 24 and 25.
Paul tells us how NOT to act:
Romans 13:8-14
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
Mathew 5:48 We cannot be perfect, but we are to aspire to it.

Could you PLEASE show me one verse that says we can act how we want to and still be members of God's Kingdom right here on earth - or in the heavenly Kingdom.
Everywhere I look I'm told how I'm to act.
If this is a work --- so be it.
I work for God.

 

[ezra]

Arminian theology is works based.

nope
Election Based on (fore)knowledge- God elected those whom He knew would of their own free will believe in Christ and persevere in the faith
Unlimited Atonement- In His atonement, Christ provided redemption for all mankind, making all mankind savable. Christ’s atonement becomes effective only in those who believe
Natural Ability- Man cannot save himself; the Holy Spirit must effect the new birth
Prevenient Grace- Preparatory work of the Holy Spirit enables the believer to respond to the gospel and cooperate with God in salvation
Conditional Perseverance- Believers have been empowered to live a victorious life, but they are capable of turning from grace and losing their salvation not going to post calvinism / reformed... many parts of it i reject .. i use to do a lot of posting in carm under arm/calv heading . i have had many discussions over free will. i have even done a email correspondence with a calvinist . we kept is respectful .i told him where and what i disagreed with. in the carm forum i have been called false teacher a heretic . straw man posting etc had many heated debates . even got suspended before.. so i am very familiar with calvinism but no its no more false than yours

 

[ezra]

You just broke so many ToS rules above, I wouldn't know where to begin.
You're not allowed to tell me what I believe. Only I know what I believe.
You're calling me a judaizer.
You're telling me, by inference, that I do not believe in Christ and His merits.

I will say only this:
No work can save us.
Ephesians 2:8
Only God can save us. He needs nothing from us. We cannot save ourselves.

After we become born again, He does require us to behave and act in a certain way.
Ephesians 2:10

We cannot be members of the Kingdom on earth, which Jesus came to establish, UNLESS we behave as we are to in HIS Kingdom.

Jesus tells us in John 14:15 that we will FOLLOW Him if we love Him.
How do we follow Jesus? By doing everything He said to do.
Try all of Mathew 5 and 24 and 25.
Paul tells us how NOT to act:
Romans 13:8-14
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
Mathew 5:48 We cannot be perfect, but we are to aspire to it.

Could you PLEASE show me one verse that says we can act how we want to and still be members of God's Kingdom right here on earth - or in the heavenly Kingdom.
Everywhere I look I'm told how I'm to act.
If this is a work --- so be it.
I work for God.

even though when i got saved i had no idea about either one..

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, I read that. You're most welcome. You may wish to start at any point in these 20 pages and find far more than what you're looking for. For my part, I had to take a moment to realize I was being asked, "Please post 5 verses where Jesus speaks about being saved directly." Being it appears the synoptic Gospels are unknown to you.
Then to read this declaration after the plea, "You will not find them. Because they don't exist."
Is rather shocking.

You see PD,
This is not how it works.
I ask you a question...
You reply:
"Read the last 20 pages"

Last time I looked it was courteous to answer a question.
So this is strike two.

First you tell me something about arminianism or something.
New you tell me to read 20 pages.

If
1. You cannot answer me because you don't have an answer
2. You don't like me and don't WANT to answer,,,

that's fine. Just say so.

OR
You should really answer my questions, especially in view of the fact that this is YOUR thread.

You're also breaking ToS rules by telling me that I don't know the synoptic gospels.
How do YOU know I don't?

Don't concern yourself with what I know or do not know...

Just post 5 verses where JESUS is speaking directly, about being saved.
You won't find it because it does NOT exist. Try it.

Then post 5 verses where JESUS is speaking about how to behave in the Kingdom of God and how He describes it even.
You WILL find that because it DOES exist. Try it.

I'll be waiting for your reply.

 

[ezra]

The mods ok lol! Salvation is unconditional. What is the grace that saves? Unconditional election is in essence Gods grace that saves. The elect alone, by Gods grace and decree, come to Christ in faith. Why are we going in circles with the same silly questions?

salvation of it self is unconditional we accept the plan as it is...we say our heart must be right yes God takes care of that condition . he quickens us brings us to life .breaths new life in us.. calvinism God has do certain things to us before we get saved almost like a 3 step program

 

[Papyrus_dust]

nope
Election Based on (fore)knowledge- God elected those whom He knew would of their own free will believe in Christ and persevere in the faith
Unlimited Atonement- In His atonement, Christ provided redemption for all mankind, making all mankind savable. Christ’s atonement becomes effective only in those who believe
Natural Ability- Man cannot save himself; the Holy Spirit must effect the new birth
Prevenient Grace- Preparatory work of the Holy Spirit enables the believer to respond to the gospel and cooperate with God in salvation
Conditional Perseverance- Believers have been empowered to live a victorious life, but they are capable of turning from grace and losing their salvation not going to post calvinism / reformed... many parts of it i reject .. i use to do a lot of posting in carm under arm/calv heading . i have had many discussions over free will. i have even done a email correspondence with a calvinist . we kept is respectful .i told him where and what i disagreed with. in the carm forum i have been called false teacher a heretic . straw man posting etc had many heated debates . even got suspended before.. so i am very familiar with calvinism but no its no more false than yours

I am not a Calvinist. And your remarks are against the rules here.

 

[MCoop]

nope
Election Based on (fore)knowledge- God elected those whom He knew would of their own free will believe in Christ and persevere in the faith
Unlimited Atonement- In His atonement, Christ provided redemption for all mankind, making all mankind savable. Christ’s atonement becomes effective only in those who believe
Natural Ability- Man cannot save himself; the Holy Spirit must effect the new birth
Prevenient Grace- Preparatory work of the Holy Spirit enables the believer to respond to the gospel and cooperate with God in salvation
Conditional Perseverance- Believers have been empowered to live a victorious life, but they are capable of turning from grace and losing their salvation not going to post calvinism / reformed... many parts of it i reject .. i use to do a lot of posting in carm under arm/calv heading . i have had many discussions over free will. i have even done a email correspondence with a calvinist . we kept is respectful .i told him where and what i disagreed with. in the carm forum i have been called false teacher a heretic . straw man posting etc had many heated debates . even got suspended before.. so i am very familiar with calvinism but no its no more false than yours

Arminianism is man centered work based theology. Prevenient grace is no where taught in scripture

 

[GodsGrace]

So what you are proposing is that "unconditional salvation" doesn't mean what Webster's dictionary takes it to mean which is synonymous with Universalism...

That you agree that the condition of the heart condition of repentance is a prerequisite as well as Faith in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

IOW you don't mean what you are saying with unconditional salvation. You mean no works (physical religious acts) are required for salvation.

John,
What are physical religious acts?

 

[Papyrus_dust]

You see PD,
This is not how it works.
I ask you a question...
You reply:
"Read the last 20 pages"

Last time I looked it was courteous to answer a question.
So this is strike two.

First you tell me something about arminianism or something.
New you tell me to read 20 pages.

If
1. You cannot answer me because you don't have an answer
2. You don't like me and don't WANT to answer,,,

that's fine. Just say so.

OR
You should really answer my questions, especially in view of the fact that this is YOUR thread.

You're also breaking ToS rules by telling me that I don't know the synoptic gospels.
How do YOU know I don't?

Don't concern yourself with what I know or do not know...

Just post 5 verses where JESUS is speaking directly, about being saved.
You won't find it because it does NOT exist. Try it.

Then post 5 verses where JESUS is speaking about how to behave in the Kingdom of God and how He describes it even.
You WILL find that because it DOES exist. Try it.

I'll be waiting for your reply.

It isn't breaking the rules to recognize you're demonstrating a lack of knowledge of the synoptic gospels when you claim there will be no scriptures found wherein Jesus speaks of salvation directly.
Editing this just to be clear to the moderator reading. I have NEVER said Wondering is not a Christian. Nor do I imply such. It is odd that someone who insists on posting what Salvation is and is not then states what she did about Jesus never speaking about salvation directly. And I'm entitled to observe that as odd. IT doesn't say she's not a Christian in doing so. It simply says it is odd she challenges my posts about salvation and then states Jesus never spoke of Salvation directly. The synoptic Gospels prove that a false statement. And that is why I said it appears she's not familiar with them. Otherwise, why would someone familiar with them make a false statement about Jesus never teaching directly about salvation.
Thank you for understanding my purpose in this edit.


How it works is this, someone asks a question. The question is answered of the one asked.

That's a respectful dialog.
The disrespectful dialog works like this. Someone asks a question. The person asked answers. The former someone who asked the question asks the same question reworded, because they don't like the aforementioned truthful answer.
That's breaking the rules of proper decorum in a respect based discussion. Thinking to say Jesus did not directly speak of salvation is against the TOS here. In fact, it's rather odd anyone would make such a claim when it is called, CHRISTianity.

 

[MCoop]

You just broke so many ToS rules above, I wouldn't know where to begin.
You're not allowed to tell me what I believe. Only I know what I believe.
You're calling me a judaizer.
You're telling me, by inference, that I do not believe in Christ and His merits.

I will say only this:
No work can save us.
Ephesians 2:8
Only God can save us. He needs nothing from us. We cannot save ourselves.

After we become born again, He does require us to behave and act in a certain way.
Ephesians 2:10

We cannot be members of the Kingdom on earth, which Jesus came to establish, UNLESS we behave as we are to in HIS Kingdom.

Jesus tells us in John 14:15 that we will FOLLOW Him if we love Him.
How do we follow Jesus? By doing everything He said to do.
Try all of Mathew 5 and 24 and 25.
Paul tells us how NOT to act:
Romans 13:8-14
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
Mathew 5:48 We cannot be perfect, but we are to aspire to it.

Could you PLEASE show me one verse that says we can act how we want to and still be members of God's Kingdom right here on earth - or in the heavenly Kingdom.
Everywhere I look I'm told how I'm to act.
If this is a work --- so be it.
I work for God.

Never said we can act the way we want. Same assertions being said again. Reread the whole thread again please

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

1 John 2:19-20;
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

This is the dividing line.
You all can argue all day, but some of us don't belong.
It doesn't matter if you call it works or not, it's what goes on in your heart that matters.
Arguing over works salvation is trivial.

 

[ezra]

Arminianism is man centered work based theology. Prevenient grace is no where taught in scripture

i feel sorry for you irresistible Grace is not scripture either

 

[GodsGrace]

ya know the answer would depend on who you asked . we want to be Holy and live a holy life .i think our definition of holy living w/o sin in our life.. our flesh gets in the way.. imo when i think of Holy i think of living a pure life..

Hi Ezra,
I do believe that anyone who is asked would have to say that God calls us to live a holy life.
What does holy mean is a different question, which I'm sure you know the answer.

No one on this earth lives a pure life.
Monks go to confession.
The Pope goes to confession.
R.C. Sprout confessed his sins.
Luther did. One of my favorites, Ignatius of Antioch (he learned from John)
confessed his sins.

We all sin. Being holy just means to be set apart, to be sanctified, to be prepared to do God's work. And that's all Work means. To be prepared to do God's bidding here on earth, to be His representatives, to lead a life worthy of being called a Christian. To the best of our ability...God does not demand what we cannot do.

 

[ezra]

1 John 2:19-20;
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

This is the dividing line.
You all can argue all day, but some of us don't belong.
It doesn't matter if you call it works or not, it's what goes on in your heart that matters.
Arguing over works salvation is trivial.

the only thing that matters is your name is written down in the book of life

 

[GodsGrace]

aww love the attacks.. the Big problem we have is one religion is greater than the other

I have a big problem with brothers in Christ who fight me when I say we need to obey God and to do as He would want us to do.

I truly fail to understand what the problem is with that simple statement.
It generates such disdain from some...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Ezra,
I do believe that anyone who is asked would have to say that God calls us to live a holy life.
What does holy mean is a different question, which I'm sure you know the answer.

No one on this earth lives a pure life.
Monks go to confession.
The Pope goes to confession.
R.C. Sprout confessed his sins.
Luther did. One of my favorites, Ignatius of Antioch (he learned from John)
confessed his sins.

We all sin. Being holy just means to be set apart, to be sanctified, to be prepared to do God's work. And that's all Work means. To be prepared to do God's bidding here on earth, to be His representatives, to lead a life worthy of being called a Christian. To the best of our ability...God does not demand what we cannot do.

What's this, "we all sin"?
Speak for yourself lady.

 

[ezra]

. Being holy just means to be set apart, to be sanctified, to be prepared to do God's work. And that's all Work means. To be prepared to do God's bidding here on earth, to be His representatives, to lead a life worthy of being called a Christian. To the best of our ability...God does not demand what we cannot do.

yes i do know that is why i said our definition .. some think woman wearing dresses 24/7 men long sleeve shirts begging God to make us worthy . the cross took care of that Grace God Riches at Christ expense

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I have a big problem with brothers in Christ who fight me when I say we need to obey God and to do as He would want us to do.

I truly fail to understand what the problem is with that simple statement.
It generates such disdain from some...

Aw,don't cry.
Jesus loves you.