Understanding the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13)

[atpollard]

I know from the title that anyone reading this is probably expecting some sort of pontification based on a predetermined theological position intended to explain to all of you why I know everything and all of you are fools. Sorry to disappoint you. Frankly, I have always found this one of the hardest Parables to reconcile with other scriptures and to be able to draw a definitive line in my mind saying "this person was never saved, this person was saved and lost their eternal security, this person was saved and reached heaven ,as one through a fire' and this person heard 'well done, good and faithful servant.' [OK, the last one I am pretty sure about. It is the others that feel like nailing Jello to the wall.]

From another topic ...

18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.” Matthew 13:18-23

[ JLB Off the record, I had wanted to continue our friendly discussion but the Topic got locked for reasons having nothing to do with our discussion. I thought we might take another shot at communication.]

Let's start slow and easy (for my sake) and just focus on one case at a time, starting with the first:

Matthew 13:19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. [NIV]

So starting with the really easy stuff. The SEED is the "word of the kingdom". Since it is "heard" in Jesus' explanation of the parable, I take that to mean that it is talking about the literal word or news or truth about the Kingdom of God. This should clearly point to Jesus Christ, but is not talking about the "WORD" (as in Word made flesh, the actual person of Jesus Christ) being sown in the heart of this hearer and snatched away by "the wicked one".

In life, we meet lots of people who hear the words of God, some even listen for a moment, and then they reject it and return to their sin filled life. The 'brood of vipers' from Matthew 12:34 must have heard the words of the kingdom many times ... to no avail.

I see this first group as unsaved, from first to last. There is no question about their having and loosing salvation, they never had it. If they are among the visible church, they would be those spoken of in another verse:
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ [NIV]

If anyone has thoughts about something I misunderstood or something else you want to add to this first case, please jump in. I would really like to see a discussion on the actual text rather than yet another rehash of entrenched doctrines. I know the doctrines, I want to better understand the text and its meaning.

 

[WIP]

One question that comes to my mind is where does understanding come from? Are some predetermined to never understand or is it in some way left up to us to seek out understanding? If the former then how is it that we are accountable to said failure to understand? If the latter, what process is there for us to gain such understanding?

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." Matthew 7:7 NKJV

"Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will bring you back from your captivity;" Jeremiah 29:12-14 NKJV

Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
The face of the Lord is against those who do evil,
To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears,
And delivers them out of all their troubles.
Psalm 34:14-17 NKJV

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Eugene]

.
Dear Brother atpollard, the following teaching is from my friend that I transcribed from CD's and writings I hope will throw light on your quest of understanding the parable of The Sower.

Notes by Gene Hawkins: The Sower

The parable of the Sower (Lk. 8:4-15) is expounded upon as Jesus ministered to many people who came to Him out of every city. Matthew 13 lists seven parables, including this one, which outline God's overall purposes for Jesus and His Kingdom. They inform us of His dealings with the church during this age, continuing through the tribulation period, and on to the consummation of His dealings with the nation Israel.

Luke writes about the Sower only, which enlarges on the benefits of the Peace Offering, especially during this present Church Age. While the Parable of the Sower speaks most emphatically concerning salvation, the principles found herein apply to any truth in God's word. Jesus informs us that the seed is the word of God (Lk. 8:11). Unlike many today who choose very carefully the direction of their sowing, the Heavenly Sower broadcasts it everywhere during this age. It comes to rest in four separate areas.

Some seed fell by the wayside and was devoured by the fowls. Some fell upon a rock, and having no root, withered away. Some fell among thorns only to be choked. The rest fell upon good ground and brought forth fruit (Lk. 8:5-8). The seed which fell by the wayside is interpreted as "they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved." This refers to all those today who hear the Gospel as it is made available in a multitude of ways. It is published in the printed page, over the radio and television, through music, by personal witness as well as in practical deeds.

People are without excuse, as to hearing the Message, but when the Gospel falls on hearts of stone, it is trodden upon by all the humanistic and rebellious ideas of man. Satan takes it away, and it never has a chance to spring into life in the hearts of those who have heard.

Seed which fell on the rocky places picture those who hear and "receive the Word with joy: and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away" (Lk. 8:13). This pictures those who become emotionally involved with the Gospel, as they would with any other cause of mankind. Their hearts, however, are rocky hard, and there is no real penetration of the Seed. They are only professing believers, with a counterfeit of the true joy of the Lord, and have no root springing into everlasting life.

The third group experience is explained in Lk. 8:14, as those who are "choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life and bring "NO FRUIT UNTO PERFECTION." Unlike the first two groups where the Seed is devoured and withered, these people are true believers, but they are carnal. There is life, but no fruitfulness, because their priorities are upon the things of the world, rather than in cultivating the seed of God's Word.

"But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the Word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience" (Lk. 8:15). This good ground has five distinct characteristics. One: the good ground means an honest heart. It speaks of one who is honest before the Lord, willing to admit a deep spiritual need, and wanting the very best the Word has to offer. Two: It is a good heart, or a heart broken and pliable before the Lord, that it might receive all the Seed offered. Three: It is a heart which "heard the Word," referring to those, like Mary, who have a ravenous appetite, and are willing to sit at His feet and learn of Him. Four: Those who receive the seed, keep it. These people are not only hearers of the word, but doers also (James 1:22-23). They will hear many things while sitting at Jesus' feet, and they will be sweet to the taste. There are some very grievous things to be borne, those which hurt the flesh deeply, but these also must be kept in order for it to be good ground. Five: the final plateau to be reached is to "bring forth fruit with patience." A genuine spiritual harvest is brought forth by the Seed sown in a heart of faith. This fruit refers to what we are, as a result of its growth, rather than of works which we may do. "And the disciples asked Him, saying, What might this parable be?" (Lk. 8:9). The disciples were in a quandary as to what this parable meant. Some have thought that Jesus used parables to simplify His teachings, so that they could be understood easily. This proves to be contrary to Scripture, as is evidenced by the apostle’s ignorance. "And He said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; but to others in parables, that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand" (Lk. 8:10).

The parables are actually a hidden code to be understood only by he "that hath ears to hear." They express spiritual mysteries, whereby God separates the true from the false; faith from unbelief. Much of the Word of God is in mystery form, and only they who are truly dedicated to spiritual things, even among believers, can understand them.

The principles in the Parable of the Sower apply to any truth in Scripture, not just for salvation. Some people heartily accept the teaching of salvation by Grace, and are born again, but emphatically reject the teaching of being filled with the Holy Spirit as a separate experience. Thus, that particular truth is either "devoured by the enemy," or withered away for "lack of moisture." These believers do not come to fruition in all Scripture; but as long as the hearing ear is present, God will continue to reveal the deepest mysteries of His Word to us.

"No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light" (Lk. 8:16). The parable of the Sower describes God's word as seed bringing forth fruit.

 

[JLB]

[ JLB Off the record, I had wanted to continue our friendly discussion but the Topic got locked for reasons having nothing to do with our discussion. I thought we might take another shot at communication.]

Great attitude.

Let's start slow and easy (for my sake) and just focus on one case at a time, starting with the first:

Matthew 13:19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. [NIV]

So starting with the really easy stuff. The SEED is the "word of the kingdom". Since it is "heard" in Jesus' explanation of the parable, I take that to mean that it is talking about the literal word or news or truth about the Kingdom of God. This should clearly point to Jesus Christ, but is not talking about the "WORD" (as in Word made flesh, the actual person of Jesus Christ) being sown in the heart of this hearer and snatched away by "the wicked one".

The word [message] of the kingdom, is a reference to the Gospel Message, in which people believe and are saved.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:11-2

I wouldn't think this would be in dispute, but recently, I have had someone argue this point with me.


So like you say, lets address each group, one at a time, so we can both hear each other's point, and be in agreement.




JLB

 

[atpollard]

Matthew 13:20-21 "The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." [NIV]

Luke 8:13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." [NKJV]

Seed which fell on the rocky places picture those who hear and "receive the Word with joy: and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away" (Lk. 8:13). This pictures those who become emotionally involved with the Gospel, as they would with any other cause of mankind. Their hearts, however, are rocky hard, and there is no real penetration of the Seed. They are only professing believers, with a counterfeit of the true joy of the Lord, and have no root springing into everlasting life.

Eugene
Thanks for the post. It contains a lot of great observations. This is how I instinctively viewed the second group on a gut level. Where I felt a little uncomfortable is with the phrase "receives it" (Matthew 13:20) and "believe for a while" (Luke 8:13). Like I said, it FEELS like 'become emotionally involved' is a better description than 'saving faith' (on a gut level), but I am not 100% comfortable making a definitive claim like that about even the hypothetical faith of another.

With the level of banter about OSAS vs leaping from the hand of God on this board, I have spent a LOT more time reading, re-reading, thinking about, praying about, and just plain trying to get a handle on this. There is nothing that I want less than to wade into the shouting match, and nothing that I want more than to examine my beliefs and be comfortable with them. In all that reading, something keeps jumping out at me ... "have no root". That is an interesting phrase. When I first encountered this parable all alone, I thought it was almost a throw-away phrase emphasizing the short duration of the "receiving it" or "believing for a while". After the parable of the vine and branches, I am inclined to think that I may have originally underestimated the importance of that phrase. It may be significant that this plant has no life-giving root. From the surface, the part visible looks like a young, viable plant, but like a branch that has not abided in the vine, there is no life and connection to the True Vine in these seeds. They give an appearance of growing, but are not really a viable seed capable of producing a living plant. The soil was never capable of sustaining life.

I am currently wondering if this is the Dead Faith that James warned about. It is a counterfeit soil in which the word cannot grow. It can only grow a dead faith.

Even if salvation can be lost (a view that I am skeptical of for personal reasons), I am not inclined to chalk this particular group up to an example of Salvation gained and lost. This really looks more like the dead faith of a good-time prosperity gospel carnal Christian.

JLB
I look forward to hearing your views.
I admit to more than a little curiosity whether you see any room for someone that looks like a Christian falling away, but was never a true Christian to begin with. (I know that card gets over played in online debates.)

I am also curious if anyone has any other insights on seeds on rocky soil.

 

[JLB]

I admit to more than a little curiosity whether you see any room for someone that looks like a Christian falling away, but was never a true Christian to begin with. (I know that card gets over played in online debates.)

Jesus teaches this principle in the parable of the wheat and tares.

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:37-43


The tares never were and never will be wheat.


This teaches a different principle than the parable of the Sower.


JLB

 

[atpollard]

This teaches a different principle than the parable of the Sower

So what do these teach ...

Matthew 13:20-21 "The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." [NIV]

Luke 8:13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." [NKJV]

 

[atpollard]

Matthew 13:20-21 "The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." [NIV]

Mark 4:16-17 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. [NKJV]

Luke 8:13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." [NKJV]

Some thoughts from other commentators:

"A parable is not an allegory; an allegory is a story in which every possible detail has an inner meaning; but an allegory has to be read and studied; a parable is heard. We must be very careful not to make allegories of the parables." (William Barclay)

"Parables generally teach one main point or principle. We can get into trouble by expecting that they be intricate systems of theology, with the smallest detail revealing hidden truths." (David Guzik)

David Guzuk Commentary:
(Matthew 13:5-6) Stony places were where the soil was thin, lying upon a rocky shelf. On this ground the seed springs up quickly because of the warmth of the soil, but the seed is unable to take root because of the rocky shelf.

(Matthew 13:20-21) On stony places: As seed falling on the thin soil on top of the stony places quickly springs up and then quickly withers and dies, so some respond to the word with immediate enthusiasm yet soon wither away.
i. This soil represents those who receive the word enthusiastically, but their life is short-lived, because they are not willing to endure tribulation or persecution … because of the word.
ii. Spurgeon made a good point: "I want you clearly to understand that the fault did not lie in the suddenness of their supposed conversion. Many sudden conversions have been among the best that have ever happened." The problem was not their sudden growth, but their lack of depth.
iii. "Tribulation is a general term for suffering which comes from outside; persecution is deliberately inflicted, and usually implies a religious motive. Falls away is literally 'is tripped up'; it is not a gradual loss of interest, but a collapse under pressure." (France)

(Mark 4:13) a. "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?" Jesus considered this parable as essential to understanding His other parables.
b. "The sower sows the word": Jesus says that the word of God is like a seed. It gets "planted" in our heart, and then has the potential to bear fruit. But not every seed grows into a plant and bears fruit. The kind of soil it lands on makes all the difference.
i. 1 Peter 1:23 also says that the word of God is like a seed. It says that we have been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
ii. The natural tendency is for the audience to critique the preacher. But here, Jesus the preacher critiques His audience. The issue is how well they will hear, not how well He will preach.
iii. We learn something else here: It is by preaching that the seed is sown. You can study the seed, categorize the seed, analyze the seed, know the seed, or even love the seed. But if you don't sow it, nothing will grow.
iv. But if the seed is the word, then every preacher must make sure he uses good seed. "It is a high offence against God to change the Master's seed, to mix it, or to sow bad seed in the place of it." (Clarke)

(Mark 4:16-17) d. "The ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time": Some people are like the ground that is rocky, but covered with a thin layer of topsoil. They receive the seed of the word with a flash of enthusiasm that quickly burns out.
i. When tribulation or persecution arises for the word's sake, immediately they stumble: The "stony ground" hearer isn't attacked directly by Satan, but by tribulation or persecution. Jesus knew that many have an immediately favorable reaction to the word of God, but they give it up quickly when it becomes difficult to follow Jesus.
ii. No root in themselves: Some professing Christians have no root in themselves. Their root is in their parents, or in the Christian friends, or in the pastor, or in enthusiastic surroundings. "Then there are many more, whose religion must be sustained by enthusiastic surroundings. They seem to have been baptized in boiling, water; and unless the temperature around them is kept up to that point, they wither away … the religion that is born of mere excitement will die when the excitement is over." (Spurgeon)

(Luke 8:13) c. "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away": Some people are like the ground that is rocky, but covered with a thin layer of topsoil. They receive the seed of the word with a flash of enthusiasm that quickly burns out.

(Luke 8:11-15) f. These four categories apply to those who hear the gospel of salvation, but they also apply to those who are already saved who continually hear the word of God. How do you hear it?
- Do you let Satan take it right away?
- Do you take it but then immediately ignore it?
- Do you allow the cares of this world to make your hearing of the word of no effect?
- Do you keep the word and see it bear fruit in your life?

 

[atpollard]

Matthew 13:20-21 "The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." [NIV]

Mark 4:16-17 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. [NKJV]

Luke 8:13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." [NKJV]

Matthew Henry commentary:

(Matthew 13) I.1. Here is one parable to show what are the great hindrances of people's profiting by the word of the gospel, and in how many it comes short of its end, through their own folly, and that is the parable of the four sorts of ground, delivered (v. 3-9). and expounded (v. 18-23).
(Matthew 13:20-21) 4. (2) II. 2. Let us therefore compare the parable and the exposition.
(1.) The seed sown is the word of God, here called the word of the kingdom (v. 19): the kingdom of heaven, that is the kingdom; the kingdoms of the world, compared with that, are not to be called kingdoms. The gospel comes from that kingdom, and conducts to that kingdom; the word of the gospel is the word of the kingdom; it is the word of the King, and where that is, there is power; it is a law, by which we must be ruled and governed. This word is the seed sown, which seems a dead, dry thing, but all the product is virtually in it. It is incorruptible seed (1 Pt. 1:23); it is the gospel that brings forth fruit in souls, Col. 1:5, 6.
(3.) The ground in which this seed is sown is the hearts of the children of men, which are differently qualified and disposed, and accordingly the success of the word is different. Note, Man's heart is like soil, capable of improvement, of bearing good fruit; it is pity it should lie fallow, or be like the field of the slothful, Prov. 24:30. The soul is the proper place for the word of God to dwell, and work, and rule in; its operation is upon conscience, it is to light that candle of the Lord. Now according as we are, so the word is to us: Recipitur ad modum recipientis-The reception depends upon the receiver. As it is with the earth; some sort of ground, take ever so much pains with it, and throw ever so good seed into it, yet it brings forth no fruit to any purpose; while the good soil brings forth plentifully: so it is with the hearts of men, whose different characters are here represented by four sorts of ground, of which three are bad, and but one good. Note, The number of fruitless hearers is very great, even of those who heard Christ himself. Who has believed our report? It is a melancholy prospect which this parable gives us of the congregations of those who hear the gospel preached, that scarcely one in four brings forth fruit to perfection. Many are called with the common call, but in few is the eternal choice evidenced by the efficacy of that call, ch. 20:16.

Now observe the characters of these four sorts of ground.
[2.] The stony ground. Some fell upon stony places (v. 5, 6), which represents the case of hearers that go further than the former, who receive some good impressions of the word, but they are not lasting, v. 20, 21. Note, It is possible we may be a great deal better than some others, and yet not be so good as we should be; may go beyond our neighbours, and yet come short of heaven. Now observe, concerning these hearers that are represented by the stony ground,
First, How far they went.
1. They hear the word; they turn neither their backs upon it, nor a deaf ear to it. Note, hearing the word, though ever so frequently, ever so gravely, if we rest in that, will never bring us to heaven.
2. They are quick in hearing, swift to hear, he anon receiveth it, euthys, he is ready to receive it, forthwith it sprung up (v. 5), it sooner appeared above ground than that which was sown in the good soil. Note, Hypocrites often get the start of true Christians in the shows of profession, and are often too hot to hold. He receiveth it straightway, without trying it; swallows it without chewing, and then there can never be a good digestion. Those are most likely to hold fast that which is good, that prove all things, 1 Th. 5:21.
3. They receive it with joy. Note, There are many that are very glad to hear a good sermon, that yet do not profit by it; they may be pleased with the word, and yet not changed and ruled by it; the heart may melt under the word, and yet not be melted down by the word, much less into it, as into a mould. Many taste the good word of God (Heb. 6:5), and say they find sweetness in it, but some beloved lust is rolled under the tongue, which it would not agree with, and so they spit it out again.
4. They endure for awhile, like a violent motion, which continues as long as the impression of the force remains, but ceases when that has spent itself. Note, Many endure for awhile, that do not endure to the end, and so come short of the happiness which is promised to them only that persevere (ch. 10:22); they did run well, but something hindered them, Gal. 5:7.
Secondly, How they fell away, so that no fruit was brought to perfection; no more than the corn, that having no depth of earth from which to draw moisture, is scorched and withered by the heat of the sun. And the reason is,
1. They have no root in themselves, no settled, fixed principles in their judgments, no firm resolution in their wills, nor any rooted habits in their affections: nothing firm that will be either the sap or the strength of their profession. Note,
(1.) It is possible there may be the green blade of a profession, where yet there is not the root of grace; hardness prevails in the heart, and what there is of soil and softness is only in the surface; inwardly they are no more affected than a stone; they have no root, they are not by faith united to Christ who is our Root; they derive not from him, they depend not on him.
(2.) Where there is not a principle, though there be a profession, we cannot expect perseverance. Those who have no root will endure but awhile. A ship without ballast, though she may at first out-sail the laden vessel, yet will certainly fail in stress of weather, and never make her port.
2. Times of trial come, and then they come to nothing. When tribulation and persecution arise because of the word, he is offended; it is a stumbling-block in his way which he cannot get over, and so he flies off, and this is all his profession comes to. Note,
(1.) After a fair gale of opportunity usually follows a storm of persecution, to try who have received the word in sincerity, and who have not. When the word of Christ's kingdom comes to be the word of Christ's patience (Rev. 3:10), then is the trial, who keeps it, and who does not, Rev. 1:9. It is wisdom to prepare for such a day.
(2.) When trying times come, those who have no root are soon offended; they first quarrel with their profession, and then quit it; first find fault with it, and then throw it off. Hence we read of the offence of the cross, Gal. 5:11. Observe, Persecution is represented in the parable by the scorching sun, (v. 6); the same sun which warms and cherishes that which was well rooted, withers and burns up that which wanted root. As the word of Christ, so the cross of Christ, is to some a savour of life unto life, to others a savour of death unto death: the same tribulation which drives some to apostasy and ruin, works for others a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory. Trials which shake some, confirm others, Phil. 1:12. Observe how soon they fall away, by and by; as soon rotten as they were ripe; a profession taken up without consideration is commonly let fall without it: "Lightly come, lightly go.'

 

[atpollard]

Matthew 13:20-21 "The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." [NIV]

Mark 4:16-17 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. [NKJV]

Luke 8:13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." [NKJV]

Matthew Henry commentary:

(Mark 4) In this chapter, we have,
I. The parable of the seed, and the four sorts of ground (v. 1-9), with the exposition of it (v. 10-20), and the application of it (v. 21-25).

(Mark 4:16-17) Having thus prepared them for it, he gives them the interpretation of the parable of the sower, as we had it before in Matthew. Let us only observe here,

Secondly, That of the many that hear the word of the gospel, and read it, and are conversant with it, there are, comparatively, but few that receive it, so as to bring forth the fruits of it; here is but one in four, that comes to good. It is sad to think, how much of the precious seed of the word of God is lost, and sown in vain; but there is a day coming when lost sermons must be accounted for. Many that have heard Christ himself preach in their streets, will hereafter be bidden to depart from him; those therefore who place all their religion in hearing, as if that alone would save them, do but deceive themselves, and build their hope upon the sand, Jam. 1:22.
Thirdly, Many are much affected with the word for the present, who yet receive no abiding benefit by it. The motions of soul they have, answerable to what they hear, are but a mere flash, like the crackling of thorns under a pot. We read of hypocrites, that they delight to know God's ways (Isa. 58:2); of Herod, that he heard John gladly (ch. 6:20); of others, that they rejoiced in his light (Jn. 5:35); of those to whom Ezekiel was a lovely song (Eze. 33:32); and those represented here by the stony ground, received the word with gladness, and yet came to nothing.
Fourthly, The reason why the word doth not leave commanding, abiding, impressions upon the minds of the people, is, because their hearts are not duly disposed and prepared to receive it; the fault is in themselves, not in the word; some are careless forgetful hearers, and these get no good at all by the word; it comes in at one ear, and goes out at the other; others have their convictions overpowered by their corruptions, and they lose the good impressions the word has made upon them, so that they get no abiding good by it.

Sixthly, Many that are not openly scandalized, so as to throw off their profession, as they on the stony ground did, yet have the efficacy of it secretly choked and stifled, so that it comes to nothing; they continue in a barren, hypocritical profession, which brings nothing to pass, and so go down as certainly, though more plausibly, to hell.
Seventhly, Impressions that are not keep, will not be durable, but will wear off in suffering, trying times; like footsteps on the sand of the sea, which are gone the next high tide of persecution; when that iniquity doth abound, the love of many to the ways of God waxeth cold; many that keep their profession in fair days, lose it in a storm; and do as those that go to sea only for pleasure, come back again when the wind arises. It is the ruin of hypocrites, that they have no root; they do not act from a living fixed principle; they do not mind heart-work, and without that religion is nothing; for he is the Christian, that is one inwardly.

Tenthly, Fruit is the thing that God expects and requires from those that enjoy the gospel: fruit according to the seed; a temper of mind, and a course of life, agreeable to the gospel; Christian graces daily exercised, Christian duties duly performed. This is fruit, and it will abound to our account.
Lastly, No good fruit is to be expected but from good seed. If the seed be sown on good ground, if the heart be humble, and holy, and heavenly, there will be good fruit, and it will abound sometimes even to a hundred fold, such a crop as Isaac reaped, Gen. 26:12.

(Luke 8:13) (2.) The success of the seeding is very much according to the nature and temper of the soil, and as that is, or is not, disposed to receive the seed. The word of God is to us, as we are, a savour of life unto life, or of death unto death.

(5.) Those on whom the word makes some impressions, but they are not deep and durable ones, will show their hypocrisy in a time of trial; as the seed sown upon the rock, where it gains no root, v. 13. These for awhile believe a little while; their profession promises something, but in time of temptation they fall away from their good beginnings. Whether the temptation arises from the smiles or the frowns, of the world, they are easily overcome by it.

(7.) It is not enough that the fruit be brought forth, but it must be brought to perfection, it must be fully ripened. If it be not, it is as if there was no fruit at all brought forth; for that which in Matthew and Mark is said to be unfruitful is the same that here is said to bring forth none to perfection. For factum non dicitur quod non perseverat-perseverance is necessary to the perfection of a work.
(8.) The good ground, which brings forth good fruit, is an honest and good heart, well disposed to receive instruction and commandment (v. 15); a heart free from sinful pollutions, and firmly fixed for God and duty, an upright heart, a tender heart, and a heart that trembles at the word, is an honest and good heart, which, having heard the word, understands it (so it is in Matthew), receives it (so it is in Mark), and keeps it (so it is here), as the soil not only receives, but keeps, the seed; and the stomach not only receives, but keeps, the food or physic.
(9.) Where the word is well kept there is fruit brought forth with patience. This also is added here. There must be both bearing patience and waiting patience; patience to suffer the tribulation and persecution which may arise because of the word; patience to continue to the end in well-doing.
(10.) In consideration of all this, we ought to take heed how we hear (v. 18); take heed of those things that will hinder our profiting by the word we hear, watch over our hearts in hearing, and take heed lest they betray us; take heed lest we hear carelessly and slightly, lest, upon any account, we entertain prejudice against the word we hear; and take heed to the frame of our spirits after we have heard the word, lest we lose what we have gained.


David Brown commentary:
(Matthew 4:16) "And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground ..." --"Immediately" the seed in such a case "springs up"--all the quicker from the shallowness of the soil--"because it has no depth of earth." But the sun, beating on it, as quickly scorches and withers it up, "because it has no root" ( Mar 4:6 ), and "lacks moisture" ( Luk 8:6 ). The great truth here taught is that hearts superficially impressed are apt to receive the truth with readiness, and even with joy ( Luk 8:13 ); but the heat of tribulation or persecution because of the word, or the trials which their new profession brings upon them quickly dries up their relish for the truth, and withers all the hasty promise of fruit which they showed. Such disappointing issues of a faithful and awakening ministry--alas, how frequent are they!

 

[atpollard]

Given the passion over this parable in other topics, I had expected more people eager to tell me what they thought each of the soils represented. There seemed to be no disagreement about the birds on the path and the non-salvation of one who does not hear.
Eugene presented an in-depth interpretation of the parable from Gene Hawkins that was a great read.

Looking at the rocky soil, the money statement would be:

They are only professing believers, with a counterfeit of the true joy of the Lord, and have no root springing into everlasting life.

Since no one had any other opinions to offer, I turned to commentaries.

A couple interesting take away points (at least for me) is the caution by William Barclay (echoed by David Guzik) not to treat a parable like an allegory. It was meant to be heard and convey a simple truth, not dissected until you break it. The truth at the core of the Parable of the Sower, is that all of God's word (the seed) is equally good, it is the condition of the heart of the listener (the soil) that matters. Why do some hear the gospel and shrug it off? Their heart. Why do some get all excited, but turn out to be a flash in the pan? Their heart. Why do some struggle along and seem to become ever more worldly over time? Their heart. Why do some seem to continue to grow more Christ-like no matter how bad their outward circumstances? Their heart.

I am actually less convinced than ever that this has anywhere near as much to do with who is saved or keeping vs loosing salvation as most people who quote it think and as I once feared it would sow doctrinal confusion.

So were the people whose heart is a stone with a thin coating of soil that enables them to get all excited about Jesus or Church or something religious for a season, but just as quickly abandon the word of God for a heart of stone saved for a while and exercise their free will to walk away? Who knows or cares. I mean is that really the goal of anyone except possibly a few televangelists who just need to post numbers for how many people came forward and what happens to them after that is irrelevant. The goal when one encounters a heart of stone is to pray Ezekiel 36:26 ... that GOD would remove the heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.

If a stone heart were 'saved' (capable of the belief necessary for salvation) ... a thing that I do not believe possible or reasonable in this case since brief lip service is not true saving faith that leads to repentance and, ultimately salvation-sanctification-glorification ... it would clearly not be a salvation with any hope of lasting unless God changes the soil of that heart. No person that I know would argue this person was once saved and will ultimately be in heaven (who does not believe in universal salvation).

 

[Eugene]

So were the people whose heart is a stone with a thin coating of soil that enables them to get all excited about Jesus or Church or something religious for a season, but just as quickly abandon the word of God for a heart of stone saved for a while and exercise their free will to walk away?

Dear Brother atpollard, as concerning parables Mark 4:12 says: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand.

Is it possibly regardless the context parables are used as a testimony against unbelievers at judgment? I read in Mat 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. God also knew their hearts.

 

[Brother Mike]

I know from the title that anyone reading this is probably expecting some sort of pontification based on a predetermined theological position intended to explain to all of you why I know everything and all of you are fools. Sorry to disappoint you. Frankly, I have always found this one of the hardest Parables to reconcile with other scriptures and to be able to draw a definitive line in my mind saying "this person was never saved, this person was saved and lost their eternal security, this person was saved and reached heaven ,as one through a fire' and this person heard 'well done, good and faithful servant.' [OK, the last one I am pretty sure about. It is the others that feel like nailing Jello to the wall.]

From another topic ...


[ JLB Off the record, I had wanted to continue our friendly discussion but the Topic got locked for reasons having nothing to do with our discussion. I thought we might take another shot at communication.]

Let's start slow and easy (for my sake) and just focus on one case at a time, starting with the first:

Matthew 13:19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. [NIV]

So starting with the really easy stuff. The SEED is the "word of the kingdom". Since it is "heard" in Jesus' explanation of the parable, I take that to mean that it is talking about the literal word or news or truth about the Kingdom of God. This should clearly point to Jesus Christ, but is not talking about the "WORD" (as in Word made flesh, the actual person of Jesus Christ) being sown in the heart of this hearer and snatched away by "the wicked one".

In life, we meet lots of people who hear the words of God, some even listen for a moment, and then they reject it and return to their sin filled life. The 'brood of vipers' from Matthew 12:34 must have heard the words of the kingdom many times ... to no avail.

I see this first group as unsaved, from first to last. There is no question about their having and loosing salvation, they never had it. If they are among the visible church, they would be those spoken of in another verse:
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ [NIV]

If anyone has thoughts about something I misunderstood or something else you want to add to this first case, please jump in. I would really like to see a discussion on the actual text rather than yet another rehash of entrenched doctrines. I know the doctrines, I want to better understand the text and its meaning.

Brother, Why complicate this? Your adding this one was saved, that one must not have been and that one on Tuesday could have been had he tithed properly.

Jesus never said a Word about being saved, so we don't add it. Nor do we mix it with a doctrine of Once saved always saved or a doctrine of you can loose your (Health, protection SALVATION GREEK) your salvation.

Your also mixing a parable of the sower sows the Word and a Statement Jesus made. I'll cover the statement Jesus made. We read it as simple as possible without adding some doctrine we heard from Church or the forums, or someone else Broken commentary.

Jesus defines False Prophets:
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

We know these guys by their fruits, they are false, they know it and they come claiming to be Christ (Anointed) to give prophecy by the Holy Spirit. Jesus said look at their life, and you will know. You will also know by the unction of the Holy Spirit if it bares witness. Not all thus saith the Lord comes from God and I can tell right away.

Jesus defines a 2nd group:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 7:21)

These folks call him Lord. Does that mean anything? They are coming to him calling him Lord, so it's clear in their mind that He is actually Lord.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Let's examine His Whole statement.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Mat 7:21-23)

Qualifying Statement to be able to enter in the Kingdom of Heaven.
You must do the Will of God.

Jesus gives us an example. Some will say, "But we healed the sick in your name"__"But we cast out devils in your name"__"But we operated in the gifts of the Spirit in your name">.......

Jesus is not denying any of those statements, the main issue is doing the Will of God.

Can you cast out devils by the Power of the Holy Spirit (Spirit filled) and not be where your suppose to be? YES
Can you speak in tongues, speak prophecy and not be in the will of God? YES
Can you lay hands on the sick so they be healed, and not be where God told you to be? YES

In fact the gifts and callings are without repentance. They are free gifts by the Holy Spirit. No requirement on your part but faith to operate and step out on the Word which God will perform. (Rom 11:29)

So, the 2nd Group are those that Call Jesus Lord, but like at the end of Matt 24, they were not doing what they were suppose to be doing despite Jesus being their Lord.

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

All cleared up........... Unless your reading the Word with junk in front of you and not simply.
Keep reading if you have Doctrines of OSAS or you can wake up one day not Saved.

First, we need to clarify the Word Kingdom. Badly translated, and it can throw folks off if they don't do a Greek study.
Kingdom is not a place, it's a Greek Female noun and it's an operation of a Place. In this Case Heaven which is a place.

`Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.
(Mat 7:21) YLT

KINGDOM
basileia
Thayer Definition:
1) royal power, kingship, dominion, rule
1a) not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdom
Part of Speech: noun feminine

So Jesus is not talking about not being saved. If you take what He said literally, then when it's time to rule and reign with Him, you had better run your race and did your part as the body part God put you into the body. You better have done all that you were designed to do. If your not faithful on Earth, your not having a authoritative position in Heaven.

Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This servant whom Jesus considered a Servant was not found doing well. Jesus himself appointed him His portion with the hypocrites. If your not born again, you don't make it to the place where Jesus is appointing anything.

2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Who is raised up the Son judges.
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
(Joh 5:21-22)

If your not saved, or born again, there is no Judgement to see if you make it. Your already judged by the Word and not appointed anything but Hell.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The end result is not good if you don't do the will of God and run your race, but I find it hard to put that person in Hell also by just disobedience.

Works burned up. Lost reward.
1Co_3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

There are millions of believers today out of the will of God and never even consider anything but going to church as God's will for them. They Marry who they want (Hence all the Marriage issues) they go to school where they want, work where they want and move when they want.

Matthew talks about a place of outer darkness. Not hell, but some believe a place where put out of the way while others continue on with their rewards.
Best not to find out. Do all God's Called you to do.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Given the passion over this parable in other topics, I had expected more people eager to tell me what they thought each of the soils represented.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:11-13

The ones in the second group who represent shallow soil, because of the rock, believe having received the the seed, the Gospel Message, and do indeed spring up and start growing, but later when persecuted, they fall away from their belief, so that they no longer believe.

...who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


The first question is: Is someone who believes for a while then no longer believes, still a believer,?
The second is like it: Are those who believe for a while, then no longer believe still saved.


Jesus gave us the condition for being saved, in the beginning of this parable.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


The condition for being saved is believe.


believe = saved
If that is so, then believe for a while = saved for a while.


How can we expect someone who has returned to unbelieving, to be saved.



JLB

 

[atpollard]

The first question is: Is someone who believes for a while then no longer believes, still a believer,?
The second is like it: Are those who believe for a while, then no longer believe still saved.

Jesus gave us the condition for being saved, in the beginning of this parable.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

The condition for being saved is believe.
believe = saved
If that is so, then believe for a while = saved for a while.

How can we expect someone who has returned to unbelieving, to be saved.

I strongly suspect that you have set the bar for "saved" too low. Hyper-Calvinists get mocked because they claim that someone who responds to an emotional appeal at an 'altar call' and recites a 'sinners prayer' and then never shows any evidence of a changed life after that brief emotional 'salvation' will spend eternity in heaven. Is your only criticism with that view that you believe they lost their salvation? Can there be Salvation without real change?

I have always considered the transformed life to be the outward sign of the inner change wrought by God. Men are easily capable of stirring an emotional flash in the pan. Even the dead faith (which cannot save) that James warns us about believes something. The agricultural image is a thin layer of soil over solid impenetrable bedrock. A heart that will become excited by the trappings of faith, but not allow the gospel to actually penetrate into their heart. Head knowledge without heart knowledge. I share the doubts of the other commentators that such a heart was ever saved. They played with the gospel until it stopped being fun (unlike the first group that never gave the gospel a thought).

There is no saving faith without belief, but I think that there can be a belief that does not lead to saving faith (James 2:19).

 

[Brother Mike]

I share the doubts of the other commentators that such a heart was ever saved. They played with the gospel until it stopped being fun (unlike the first group that never gave the gospel a thought).

I guess this what happens when a mans doctrine is greater than God's Word. The 2nd group "Played" with the gospel so that my doctrine of Election is correct.

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

See, to have the power to cast out devils which Jesus never contested with this 2nd group only comes from the Power of the Holy Spirit. We have no authority over devils without the greater one inside.

The qualification of having the power of the Holy Spirit is that God must be your Father. You must be born again, or else your default father is the devil and his nature.

You just don't "Play" with the gospel and have power to cast out devils, or speak prophecy.

The Seven sons of Sceva played with the gospel in hopes to cast out a devil by the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches and they had it handed to them on a plate. You just don't play with this stuff, and stand no chance against such powerful spiritual entities without the Holy Spirit who's power dwarfs theirs.

If Doctrines of men like Calvinism are first place in your life and scripture must line up with those false doctrines, then you will miss out on the plan of God and all He designed you to do. Sad that, but it's what befalls many believers so your not alone.

Mike.

 

[atpollard]

If Doctrines of men like Calvinism are first place in your life and scripture must line up with those false doctrines, then you will miss out on the plan of God and all He designed you to do. Sad that, but it's what befalls many believers so your not alone.

You are making a lot of value judgements on what I believe and what is first in my heart. You would probably be surprised to know who I was, what I believe and who I am today. Not that I am impressive, just that the path God chose for my life has been unusual.

 

[Brother Mike]

You are making a lot of value judgements on what I believe and what is first in my heart. You would probably be surprised to know who I was, what I believe and who I am today. Not that I am impressive, just that the path God chose for my life has been unusual.

The only judgement I make is by the way your understanding scripture. It tells a lot about someone. God's word is simple, it takes some convoluted doctrine to mess up the simplicity. The inability to see that Holy Spirit Filled believes who walked in the power of the God can become disobedient.

Every single scripture is perfect, and does not contradict. It can't be foreknowledge or election, Scriptures counter both thoughts and both doctrines are mans human attempts to keep God sovereign in their own small thinking and at the same time understand someone in a complicated way who is not complicated. A shame really. There are cases where God does not know, where God spoke and its just becomes reality even if we don't see it come to pass yet. Times when it appears the man had no choice, times when choices where options. People don't understand God because we are like Him. It's not cut and dried as we like things to be.

However, I am interested in what God has used you in. What you have overcome and where your going. Obeying God and doing the will of God are things that interest me.

Good day.
Mike.



.

 

[JLB]

I strongly suspect that you have set the bar for "saved" too low. Hyper-Calvinists get mocked because they claim that someone who responds to an emotional appeal at an 'altar call' and recites a 'sinners prayer' and then never shows any evidence of a changed life after that brief emotional 'salvation' will spend eternity in heaven. Is your only criticism with that view that you believe they lost their salvation? Can there be Salvation without real change?

I have always considered the transformed life to be the outward sign of the inner change wrought by God. Men are easily capable of stirring an emotional flash in the pan. Even the dead faith (which cannot save) that James warns us about believes something. The agricultural image is a thin layer of soil over solid impenetrable bedrock. A heart that will become excited by the trappings of faith, but not allow the gospel to actually penetrate into their heart. Head knowledge without heart knowledge. I share the doubts of the other commentators that such a heart was ever saved. They played with the gospel until it stopped being fun (unlike the first group that never gave the gospel a thought).

There is no saving faith without belief, but I think that there can be a belief that does not lead to saving faith (James 2:19).

I'm just using the language from the scripture.

Lest they believe and are saved.

Would you care to answer of comment on these questions?


The first question is: Is someone who believes for a while then no longer believes, still a believer,?
The second is like it: Are those who believe for a while, then no longer believe still saved.


Jesus gave us the condition for being saved, in the beginning of this parable.



The condition for being saved is believe.


believe = saved
If that is so, then believe for a while = saved for a while.


How can we expect someone who has returned to unbelieving, to be saved.



JLB

 

[reba]

Dont turn this any form of OSAS thread admin.. discuss the scripture
Do not reply to this post in this thread