Using the Law Lawfully / The Ox Thread

[eddif]

There seems to be both a desire to discuss the ox, and to keep the ox out of the china shop.

The ox scriptures are a type of Rosetta Stone. Both the ox and gifted people are put in the same area of discussion. Much like a parable where information is hidden in another context.

The ox appears under the Law:
Defining his work
Defining his treatment
Upon examination - clean
Other?

The church leader is compared to:
An ox
A plowman
Defined as examined for service
Other?

After this post I will pretty much go to scripture quotes with explanations.

Hopefully we do not wind up in side notes.

Redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

I Timothy 5:17 KJV
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Written by a born again Jew.

The new covenant explains things fully, but the old covenant hides things. (Isaiah 6)

A good preacher needs to be paid.
This means doctrinally sound preaching, and not just a good presentation.


eddif

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Paid for what?, an hour teaching a week?. Jesus had no place to rest his head and the Apostles probably went through a million pairs of sandals, suffered, and had blisters on there feet, they were worthy of there double portion. And what's the argument today, it takes alot of time to study and prepare to preach to the same flock each week for a single hour, can't they rely on the Holy Spirit.

If the excuse is they have to deal with a heart load each week, then take some wisdom from Moses Father in Law.

 

[eddif]

Paid for what?, an hour teaching a week?. Jesus had no place to rest his head and the Apostles probably went through a million pairs of sandals, suffered, and had blisters on there feet, they were worthy of there double portion. And what's the argument today, it takes alot of time to study and prepare to preach to the same flock each week for a single hour, can't they rely on the Holy Spirit.

If the excuse is they have to deal with a heart load each week, then take some wisdom from Moses Father in Law.

Ok.

I Will check you out.

Can you parallel the ox physical structure with a good preacher? This thread is about the Law being used lawfully. So. The law defines the ox. Hidden in the created ox is all sorts of wisdom ready to be revealed.

eddif

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Ok.

I Will check you out.

Can you parallel the ox physical structure with a good preacher? This thread is about the Law being used lawfully. So. The law defines the ox. Hidden in the created ox is all sorts of wisdom ready to be revealed.

eddif

Everyone who works is worthy of there pay, even so a double portion for the preacher.

 

[reba]

Having known both donkey and ox pastors i understand it this way... an ox is never any thing but an ox.. he works at being an ox 24-7.
A donkey does the same he is always an ass even when God chooses to use him

Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
Num 22:29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.



What i dont understand eddif is why you consider this important

Written by a born again Jew.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

We could have thank a teacher day.

 

[eddif]

Having known both donkey and ox pastors i understand it this way... an ox is never any thing but an ox.. he works at being an ox 24-7.
A donkey does the same he is always an ass even when God chooses to use him

Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
Num 22:29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.



What i dont understand eddif is why you consider this important

Ahh yes. Thanks.

This (written by a born again Jew) is a key to understanding how the law is used lawfully.

In the old covenant the statement about the ox would not have been explained as relating to preachers / elders. Hidden in the law it is just working animal husbandry. After the disciples (those who became apostles) had received the word in heart and mind at Pentecost (Jerusalem filling to be witnesses); then apostles / writers began to reveal things hidden from the foundation of the world. Even Saul of Tarsus had hands laid on him for healing and filling.
Jesus started giving information to disciples about seeds. Now we see oxen explained by filled witnesses.

Will I be challenged when I get to the ox's stomachs? Would you care to start the explanation? The law opened in regards to preachers is a major way we see the deeper meaning of the Law. Jesus is seen all through the OC / OT scriptures, but seeing they did not see (Isaiah 6).

The ox scriptures open the concept of using the law lawfully.. your use of the donkey or ass concept hangs on clean unclean (?). Animal behavior is used to show men's behavior. Wolves, dogs, etc, can be declared clean.

Thanks
eddif

 

[reba]

lost me

 

[Nathan]

lost me

Straight over my head too.

eddif
I'm just not able to see what your saying here. I mean, I understand the ox analogy/representation, but I'm not seeing where it goes from there?

I'm a firm believer that the Scriptures(what some call the OT) were written for our learning. I simply just am not on the same track. I'm watching the train cars go by, but I am thinking I might be sitting at the station while your chugging along the tracks.

Please continue, but I didn't want you to think I was rude for not joining in - plus I'd really like to know the direction this train is heading.

 

[Free]

Ahh yes. Thanks.

This (written by a born again Jew) is a key to understanding how the law is used lawfully.

In the old covenant the statement about the ox would not have been explained as relating to preachers / elders. Hidden in the law it is just working animal husbandry. After the disciples (those who became apostles) had received the word in heart and mind at Pentecost (Jerusalem filling to be witnesses); then apostles / writers began to reveal things hidden from the foundation of the world. Even Saul of Tarsus had hands laid on him for healing and filling.
Jesus started giving information to disciples about seeds. Now we see oxen explained by filled witnesses.

Will I be challenged when I get to the ox's stomachs? Would you care to start the explanation? The law opened in regards to preachers is a major way we see the deeper meaning of the Law. Jesus is seen all through the OC / OT scriptures, but seeing they did not see (Isaiah 6).

The ox scriptures open the concept of using the law lawfully.. your use of the donkey or ass concept hangs on clean unclean (?). Animal behavior is used to show men's behavior. Wolves, dogs, etc, can be declared clean.

Thanks
eddif

I'm with the others--I don't understand.

1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
1 Tim 5:18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages." (ESV)

There is no other meaning here other than Paul using the analogy of the ox to show that those who "labor in preaching and teaching" are deserving of wages, even a "double honour". Just an analogy, nothing more.

It has absolutely nothing to do with clean and unclean or a "deeper meaning of the Law".

 

[eddif]

I'm with the others--I don't understand.

1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
1 Tim 5:18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages." (ESV)

There is no other meaning here other than Paul using the analogy of the ox to show that those who "labor in preaching and teaching" are deserving of wages, even a "double honour". Just an analogy, nothing more.

It has absolutely nothing to do with clean and unclean or a "deeper meaning of the Law".

Explain I Corinthians 9:9 KJV
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This passage shows the ox was taught in the Law for us. The Law did not just happen to have the ox in the Law.

Many other hidden things are in the Law (called shadows of things to come). If we just make them a literary anamoly (?) have we understood chewing the cud (which I can tie in as the ox thread is opened.

If allowed I will do cud chewing next then.

eddif

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

What does muzzle an ox mean?. Ox as in the animal ox?. What is muzzle?. What does treading out mean?. Treading the grain as if stomping all over it?

So the ox stomps all over the grain in the paddock?

 

[Nathan]

Explain I Corinthians 9:9 KJV
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This passage shows the ox was taught in the Law for us. The Law did not just happen to have the ox in the Law.

Many other hidden things are in the Law (called shadows of things to come). If we just make them a literary anamoly (?) have we understood chewing the cud (which I can tie in as the ox thread is opened.

If allowed I will do cud chewing next then.

eddif

I say chew the cud man, chew the cud.

I do agree, there are things written and recorded for us that we often pass over thinking it was only for the people of old.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

What on earth does it mean. If a muzzle is the nose and mouth of an animal what does Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn mean?.

You shall not 'the projecting part of the animals face' the ox. That doesn't make sense.

I need answer.

 

[reba]

If the ox is working he has a right to eat. it can be that simple

 

[reba]

 

[eddif]

What does muzzle an ox mean?. Ox as in the animal ox?. What is muzzle?. What does treading out mean?. Treading the grain as if stomping all over it?

So the ox stomps all over the grain in the paddock?

The ox has a split hoof that rolls the grain and separates the husk on a stone floor. The corn is then winnowed (chaff, dirt, etc.) removed by wind as it is tossed into the air.

A horse single hoof would mash the corn and husk and dirt into an unusable food source.

A lion paw would not break loose the husk, and possible defile the grain (not spiritual defilement but physical). The physical points to defilement by a bad preacher.

eddif

 

[reba]

i dont like to think about the ox walking in the meal .. yucky ...he rolls the wheel

 

[eddif]

Straight over my head too.

eddif
I'm just not able to see what your saying here. I mean, I understand the ox analogy/representation, but I'm not seeing where it goes from there?

I'm a firm believer that the Scriptures(what some call the OT) were written for our learning. I simply just am not on the same track. I'm watching the train cars go by, but I am thinking I might be sitting at the station while your chugging along the tracks.

Please continue, but I didn't want you to think I was rude for not joining in - plus I'd really like to know the direction this train is heading.

A ruminant digests things that other animals can not digest. More like a snail train rather than a freight train.

Four stomachs are required.

eddif