Using the Law Lawfully / The Ox Thread

[eddif]

I suppose I could spend the largest part of my time talking about modern genetic engineering, but would I see Jesus. I want to seek next higher order spiritual things. Modern genetic engineering still is dealing with hidden knowledge. If the ox had a purpose hidden by God, let the eyes of my understanding see. I could spend my life trying to get wooly mammoths. I would get slaps on the back and world wide recognition if ox DNA helped.

I have to get on with the stomachs, and get away from the negative. Meditate on those things that edify, build up, give the mind of Christ.

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[eddif]

A preacher should:
Study the Word
Understand the word
Realize Satan will try to steal the word
Overcome the Devil

Luke 8:12 KJV
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

We need to remember this verse.

The ox.
Stomach 1
Everyone at some time or another has a little roughage enter their path:
Just too busy to mess with that
Got more important things to do
(Cares of this world and deceitfullness of riches)

Roughage takes care to break down. Let me get that thought back up. The Holy Spirit brings things to our remembrance.

John 14:26 KJV
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Ok so just one stomach will not digest some things.
Stomach 2
The Holy Spirit brings the thought back to mind. We rechew the thought again. More appropriate salava is added to break down this roughage further (thanks Holy Spirit I could have lost that thought).

Stomach 3
The devil bacteria break down the roughage for themselves (cares for self rather than congregation). The bacteria has all the energy.

Stomach 4
Break down the bacteria and digest them.
The enemies have become our bread.

I will come back and fill in gaps.

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[eddif]

We have to receive it. Recently I learned that accepting and receiving are Not the same thing. Many accept Jesus, but not as many receive Him.

I Corinthians 9:4 KJV
Have we not power to eat and to drink?
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and asthe brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
6 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

Here is the verse I was quoting
I Corinthians 9:12 KJV
If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

Just because we have a right, it does not demand we find a way to use it.

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[eddif]

You might need this one too.

I Thessalonians 2:9. KJV
For you recall, brethren, our labor and hardship, how working night and day so as not to be a burden to any of you, we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

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[Nathan]

While reading all this I can't help but just consider the ox itself.

Rather mild creature. Some might say 'dumb'. Definitely meek. Easy to work with when a yoke and nose ring are on him. But without them, he is not going to willingly work for you - or work for you on his own accord.

Only a person who knows how to work him will be able to, the average person doesn't have the ability.

When I see the ox, I see one of the most content animals. He doesn't require much.

 

[eddif]

While reading all this I can't help but just consider the ox itself.

Rather mild creature. Some might say 'dumb'. Definitely meek. Easy to work with when a yoke and nose ring are on him. But without them, he is not going to willingly work for you - or work for you on his own accord.

Only a person who knows how to work him will be able to, the average person doesn't have the ability.

When I see the ox, I see one of the most content animals. He doesn't require much.

Very good.
Come on Blue come on Sue. Atta boy atta girl.

Gee Blue gee (slight prod).

He works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure.

His rod and staff comfort us. Hugs and swats keep us on the path.

Again very good Nathan.

eddif

 

[Edward]

Doesn't the ox also symbolize the four faces of God? Ox/Lion/Eagle/man...

 

[eddif]

Doesn't the ox also symbolize the four faces of God? Ox/Lion/Eagle/man...

Right now I do not know enough about Ezekiel 1 to make a tie in comment.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Stomach 1:
Romans 12:3. KJV
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Each man gets a handful (?) of roughage in his life. This may be hidden word that has to be digested.

Pride in self would keep you from even trying to hang onto the word. Repentance would come early on.

Stomach 2:
Extra saliva (confession of sins).
I John 1:9. KJV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

True need for God starts thinking that leads to salvation for eternity. Knowledge of our need for the shed blood of Jesus. Jesus is that cleansing from all unrighteousness.

A preacher is going to formulate what he preaches here.

Luke 19:26. KJV
For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

Right at the entrance to the third stomach.

Stomach 3:
John 10:10. KJV
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Bacteria began to multiply and digest the food source. The false shepherd will see the gospel for selfish gain.

A good preacher will preach Jesus and not himself. Temptation will be to leave credit in the hands of man.

Stomach 4:
Numbers 14:8 KJV
If the LORD delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.

Spiritual things will be our eternal life (not just here and now). The law was temporal and not eternal.

I Corinthians 15:52. KJV
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Matthew 7:22. KJV
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

To digest the bacteria we have to undo the works of the devil. It is not us that do the works but Christ that works through us.


Numbers 14:9. KJV
Only rebel not ye against the LORD, neither fear ye the people of the land; for they are bread for us: their defence is departed from them, and the LORD is with us: fear them not.

We are not fighting against flesh and blood but against principalities in high places.

Ephesians 6:12. KJV
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

They fought people under the law, but we fight the real enemies.

The shadow of a battle was under the law, but we have come to the New Jerusalem.

Redneck
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[eddif]

Just in case I make this thread too leagalistic. The following scripture.

Philippians 1:15 KJV
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

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[eddif]

The rest of the story.

Romans 2:14 KJV
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

The Gentiles received the Holy Spirit just like the Jews did (they both had their own day of Pentecost.

To explain paying the preacher to a Jew you can use the law lawfully. Spirit filled Jews / Jew explained the concept in the NT.

To explain paying the preacher to a Gentile (a Spirit filled Gentile) you call on the quickening spirit inside them,
or
You take them through all this mess I have posted in this thread.

If a person is to witness to Jews and Gentiles alike, IMHO you need a mental grip on all this:
Do the Gentiles have to keep the law of Moses? No.
Do the Gentiles have to keep the law of Moses? No.

Both Jew and Gentile have the law written on their hearts and minds, if they have received the quickening Spirit.

Why go through all this? First answer why it is explained so well in the NC / NT.

Jesus established peace between Jew and Gentile alike (One New Man).

We do not force the law on anyone, but we stand ready to explain. Can a Mississippi redneck explain it? No. Can the Holy Spirit apply the law to our hearts and minds lawfully. Yes.

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[eddif]

Ephesians 2:13 KJV
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments containedin ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

I Corinthians 15:37 KJV
And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there isone kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

II Corinthians 3:9 KJV
For if the ministration of condemnation beglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The law brought condemnation, but if the husk is removed the kernel that remains speaks of Christ.

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[eddif]

Although there is rubble left from the destruction of the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile, no new wall should ever be built out of the rubble.

I hope my discussions never create a wall.

Redneck
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[Edward]

Luke 5: 36-39
36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.../

That's what He's talking about here I think. OT Law, and NT Grace.

 

[eddif]

Luke 5: 36-39
36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.../

That's what He's talking about here I think. OT Law, and NT Grace.

We will work with this. LOL

Note no Man. Mankind is resistant to see God's way. Man would dress up the flesh, take credit for the progress and move on.

The new man is not yet the final trump man. The dominion of sin is broken but the stony heart is replaced with a heart of flesh. Still a heart that awaits the last trump for eternal perfection. IMHO

the new mind of Christ seems to be in better shape. Romans 7:25

The one new man is not:
A new Jewish man (patched up)
A new Gentile man (patched up)

New creation

We will keep on with this.

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[eddif]

We see through a glass darkly, but we are not blind.

We may not see every aspect of being born again, but we do see a born again person is not just patched up flesh. That is us seeing some still atol better. Not blind, but still seeing some.

The law is not really about food and drink, sabbath days, holy days, etc., but about Jesus. Jesus is the body that casts shadows.

We can touch an ox, but it is not the reality we seek.

We can't touch preaching, but this is what the reality really is. Reba said the donkey message is still a message even if the source is not perfect.

The law has the Jewish people casting stones, but the NT presents turning a person over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. The reality is spiritual / actual.

Using the Law can be:
Works of the law
Or
Looking for the truth kernel.

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[eddif]

Ceremony of Law:
Fulfilled at time of his death on cross?
Examined and found without blemish
Proclaimed king of Jews
Arms lifted up
Sins placed in him on cross

To say that the ceremony of the law has passed away, is to ignore the right to learn from ceremonies.

The ceremonial law being fulfilled by Jesus, is a teaching tool of the first order. A Jewish Christian is the branch that is better at this than Gentile Mississippi grafts.

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[eddif]

Romans 11:33 KJV
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

This is said after a discussion about Jews and Gentiles.

Commandments found in ordinances. Now there is the ox.

Not muzzling the ox is an ordinance. Paying the preacher is a commandment.

Welding goggles on a redneck.
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[eddif]

This is a summary of the first seven chapters of the book of Hebrews, and is actually a summary of the Law and its construction and purpose.

Hebrews 8 KJV
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, thatthou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make witIn that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.h the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

A whole chapter? First time ever. Why? Verse 13 - ready to pass away. Pass away? Well the true sanctuary has come (verse 2). A new covenant was needed in verse 8. Not like old covenant (verse 9). The new covenant made the first old (old and passing away but not gone and used lawfully - verse 10). The new covenant will teach - (Holy Spirit). Now I took a giant leap in verse 11 (under the law man taught, but under the new covenant the Holy Spirit teaches / leads. The teacher teaches the Holy Spirit teaches. Strange. Verse 13,ready to pass away. Used lawfully it is there, but understood in purpose (schoolmaster).

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[eddif]

Under works of law:
II Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

This can be compared to the ox. Do the work reap the benefits. This is a temporary benefit though (not eternity in heaven).

How do we know it is not eternal?
II Chronicles 7:19 KJV
But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

What we learned from the ox?
Do work get paid.
What we learn from the above scripture?
Follow directions get rewarded.

Eternity has been placed in the mind of man. The II Chronicles scripture is temporary.
So
A great need arises. To enjoy being in the house of the Lord forever, the Messiah must come.

The ox scriptures hide pay the preacher.

The humble, pray, seek my face, turn etc. hide what Jesus did perfectly. He did the works so well that eternity is available through belief.

From ox to preacher.
From tomporaty benefits to eternal life.

Use the law lawfully. Our works under the law are less than the law fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

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