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Was Jesus a false prophet?

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HisFriend said:
Your reponse completely misses the issue at hand.

Actually it found it's mark. What "follower of Christ" addressed was one of the major opening arguments...

Jesus claimed that all of the events would happen within the lifetime of some of his immediate followers. These would be 1st century events, that is when Jesus was supposed to return.

DivineNames needs to define generation as a lifetime as in definition "1" below to support his argument but generation may also refer to the Jews as a race in general as defined in "2".



http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=generation
Generation:
1) A group of individuals born and living about the same time.
2) A group of generally contemporaneous individuals regarded as having common cultural or social characteristics and attitudes: “They're the television generationâ€Â
3) A stage or period of sequential technological development and innovation.


Along with definition "2" or "3" (I'd say the last covenant was quite innovative. ;)) is another concept of looking at "generation" as referring to the covenants of God to man. (A stage or period of sequential agreements made with man from God) The covenant ratified by Christ is the last. Therefore all those after Christ's work on the cross are the generation of the new covenant. This generation can not pass away until all things are fulfilled for this is the last covenant toward mankind.

Generation doesn't have to always have one meaning. But it's on one meaning the initial argument is based.


HisFriend said:
DivineNames said:
Solo said:
When Jesus returns, we who have believed will all know exactly what he meant. :biggrin


We already know what he meant. Its very clear. Jesus promised to return within the lifetime of some of his immediate followers.


It's strange... I can understand the meaning of what Jesus is saying, and yet it seems you can't understand Jesus... and your the one with the Holy Spirit to help you!

But he did return.

Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, `I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.' "

So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst

How many times did Christ ascend to heaven from which he will return? My bible says once.
 
PotLuck said:
HisFriend said:
Your reponse completely misses the issue at hand.

Actually it found it's mark.

[/quote]

I am afraid that it is not on the mark but misses the point.

Christ said, "there are SOME STANDING HERE WHO WILL NOT SEE DEATH..."

This is the point. Going on long harangues about "generation" is tangential and inconsequential.
 
TruthMiner said:
Christ said, "there are SOME STANDING HERE WHO WILL NOT SEE DEATH..."

Let's continue with that verse.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


The transfiguration occured shortly after in view of some who were there. Was the transfiguration the Son of Man coming in his kingdom? Does this not testify to Christ's claim that He would return in the Father's glory? I'd say so. :wink:

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Mat 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
 
amazing

It's amazing how in order to accept the bible you have to twist and reinterpret the words as written in order to validate your beliefs. When you read something do you normally assume it is incorrect and then you have to correct it or do you normally accept it as true as written and then change your opinion if something proves it incorrrect. If you can't agree on a simple phrase such as what "this generation" means then how do you have the ego to assume you can understand anything else? The prophecy as written is very plain in its wording and promised that Jesus would return in their lifetime. You can mock CS Lewis if you want to, but other apostles believed Jesus would return in their lifetime.If you mock them what makes you so sure you are correct when they were in the middle of the events? (assuming Jesus lived)
 
second coming

PotLuck said:
TruthMiner said:
Christ said, "there are SOME STANDING HERE WHO WILL NOT SEE DEATH..."

Let's continue with that verse.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


The transfiguration occured shortly after in view of some who were there. Was the transfiguration the Son of Man coming in his kingdom? Does this not testify to Christ's claim that He would return in the Father's glory? I'd say so. :wink:
Your explanaton nullifies the second coming OR claims the second coming already occurred. As to anyone witnessing the event and seeing the "Fathers Glory" I don't believed anyone has witnessed it. Certainly the promises of what would happen have not been met. Are you willing to concede this point?
 
The fact of the matter is that there are two presences and two raptures. Here is the pattern for both presences:

Elijah
Coming
Man of lawlessness starts operating
Elijah
Coming
Man of lawlessness revealed to closest disciples
Shepherd struck in Jerusalem & flock scattered
Jesus is absent for 3 days in the heart of the earth
Man of lawlessness destroyed
Jesus manifested in Galilee to the chosen ones
Sealing and outpouring of gifts of the spirit in Jerusalem.

The above pattern is the pattern of Jesus 3½ year first century ministry as we shall see . It is also the template which reveals to us the pattern of events in both of his two 120 year presences. For God operates in a fractal manner.

[1] Elijah comes first (John the baptist).

10 However, the disciples put the question to him: Why, then, do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?
11 In reply he said: Elijah, indeed, is coming and will restore all things.
12 However, I say to you that Elijah has already come and they did not recognize him but did with him the things they wanted. In this way also the Son of man is destined to suffer at their hands.
13 Then the disciples perceived that he spoke to them about John the Baptist (Matthew 17).

This also shows that Elijah will come again to restore all things.

[2] Then Jesus' first coming to the temple to throw out abusers in 30Nisan:

13 Now the passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 And he found in the temple those selling cattle and sheep and doves and the money brokers in their seats.
15 So, after making a whip of ropes, he drove all those with the sheep and cattle out of the temple, and he poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
16 And he said to those selling the doves: Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise! (John 2).

[3] Then Judas, the archetypical man of lawlessness, went sour:

70 Jesus answered them: I chose you twelve, did I not? Yet one of you is a slanderer.
71 He was, in fact, speaking of Judas [the son] of Simon Iscariot; for this one was going to betray him, although one of the twelve (John 6).

[4] Then Elijah comes a second time. This Elijah sent his disciples to question Jesus:

19 So John summoned a certain two of his disciples and sent them to the Lord to say: Are you the coming one or are we to expect a different one?
20 When they came up to him the men said: John the Baptist dispatched us to you to say: Are you the coming one or are we to expect another? (Luke 7).

Quite obviously this cannot be the chap who baptised Jesus, because he kept crying out: See the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29).

He was in no doubt as to who was the coming one! So how can this be??

Well Jesus Christ was not baptised by John the Baptist, the son of Zechariah. To see why, see [229]. It was Gabriel who baptised Jesus, because he is God's high priest and he sacrificed Jesus and presided over the entry of Michael on behalf of God. This new Jesus would validate the first abrahamic covenant with his human body and ransom Adam with his angelic soul - see [15].

This is the meaning of his words:

4 It is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away.
5 Hence when he comes into the world he says: Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me (Hebrews 10).

For it is not possible for a priest such as Michael, a cherub, the holder of a master covenant with God to enter into a non priestly human vehicle. And no son of Israel under law could become a priest until he was 30 years old...

3 From 30 years old upward to 50 years old, all those going into the service group to do the work in the tent of meeting (Numbers 4).

Jesus was 30 years old when Michael entered his body. Gabriel said to Zechariah, John's dad...

19 In reply the angel said to him: I am Gabriel, who stands near before God, and I was sent forth to speak with you and declare the good news of these things to you (Luke 1).

Standing near before God means God's high priest, it is a Euphemism.

15 And as for the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who took care of the obligation of my sanctuary when the sons of Israel wandered away from me, they themselves will come near to me to minister to me, and they must stand before me to present to me fat and the blood, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah (Ezekiel 44).

Look! Gabriel is telling us that he is going to act as a priest before God.

The point of Luke 7:19,20 is that a second Elijah had now come, namely the original John the baptist himself, back in his own body, which was shortly to be decapitated to please a condemned woman, as a result of a promise for half a kingdom. It was this original John who did not know who Jesus was ! He was a second Elijah, albeit in the same body as the first Elijah who was Gabriel.

This is why John the baptist said to the Pharisees that he was not Elijah, whereas Jesus said that he was Elijah. Both statements were true.

21 And they asked him: What, then? Are you Elijah? And he said: I am not. Are you The Prophet? And he answered: No!
22 Therefore they said to him: Who are you? that we may give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?
23 He said: I am a voice of someone crying out in the wilderness: Make the way of Jehovah straight, just as Isaiah the prophet said.
24 Now those sent forth were from the Pharisees.
25 So they questioned him and said to him: Why, then, do you baptize if you yourself are not the Christ or Elijah or The Prophet? (John 1).

Good question, this is a Reader Question.

13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John;
14 and if you want to accept it, He himself is Elijah who is destined to come (Matthew 11).

[5] Then Jesus made a second coming to the temple to throw out abusers on 33Nisan10:

45 And he entered into the temple and started to throw out those who were selling,
46 saying to them: It is written: And my house will be a house of prayer, but you have made it a cave of robbers (Luke 19).

15 Now they came to Jerusalem. There he entered into the temple and started to throw out those selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves
16 and he would not let anyone carry a utensil through the temple,
17 but he kept teaching and saying: Is it not written: My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations? But you have made it a cave of robbers (Mark 11).

12 And Jesus entered into the temple and threw out all those selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.
13 And he said to them: It is written: My house will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a cave of robbers (Matt 21).

[6] Then the son of destruction, the man of lawlessness, Judas was revealed, at the last supper, to Peter and John.

[7] Jesus enters the heart of the earth. He becomes the focus of all of God's heavenly organisation, for 3 days and 3 nights (being in trouble the whole time, so he did not sleep in death - having no angelic statis unit - he went to Tartarus to preach to them and then to Gehenna to preach to them - see U251.

41 And he himself drew away from them about a stone's throw, and bent his knees and began to pray,
42 saying: Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.
43 Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him (Luke 22).

[8] Then Jesus is impaled and the apostles become scared, stumbled, scattered and confused

31 Then Jesus said to them: All of you will be stumbled in connection with me on this night, for it is written, 'I will strike
the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered about.'
32 But after I have been raised up, I will go ahead of you into Galilee (Matthew 26).

33 Therefore Jesus said: I continue a little while longer with you before I go to him that sent me.
34 You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am you cannot come.
35 Therefore the Jews said among themselves: Where does this [man] intend going, so that we shall not find him? He does not intend to go to the [Jews] dispersed among the Greeks and teach the Greeks, does he?
36 What does this saying mean that he said, 'You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am you cannot come'? (John 7).

Literally Jesus was impaled, and went to Galilee after his resurrection and then went to heaven to meet his Father who sent him. In the greater first presence fulfilment of this, God struck FDS1 (first faithful discrete slave of Matthew 25), and after its fall, Peter (in FDS2) and James (of FDS2) both wrote to the 12 tribes 'scattered about', whilst Jesus was with FDS2 in the greater Galilee teaching the Greeks (binary question – by the power principle, the wrong answer must have some validity).

1 James, a slave of God and of [the] Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes that are scattered about: Greetings! (James 1).

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the temporary residents scattered about in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia,¬ Asia, and
Bithynia, to the ones chosen (1 Peter 1).

[9] Then Judas then committed suicide

3 Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing he had been condemned, felt remorse and turned the 30 silver pieces back to the chief priests and older men, 4 saying: I sinned when I betrayed righteous blood. They said: What is that to us? You must see to that!

5 So he threw the silver pieces into the temple and withdrew, and went off and hanged himself (Matthew 27).

[10] Then Jesus was resurrected and he manifested himself to his disciples:

1 After these things Jesus manifested himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; but he made the manifestation in this way (John 21).

This pattern holds true for both of his 120 year presences, the presences of his body, his wife, the living stones of the temple of the new covenant saints, as follows...

[11] Then the holy spirit was poured out at Pentecost. The apostles were sealed and the physical gifts of the spirit of the first century were received.
The Pattern of Jesus' physical ministry and the 2 Presences

For the whole picture of - The Pattern of Jesus' physical ministry and the 2 Presences - please click here:

http://www.truebiblecode.com/understanding33.html

PS: the numbers in boxes are links that you will not be able to visit unless you go to the above site. My humble apologies!
 
lovely said:
As far as some of these prophecies...

Matthew 16:27,28
This is the prophecy of the second coming. This prophecy comes just six days before the transfiguration. Jesus speaks of the judgment, when man will be rewarded according to His works (this is pretty far into the future), and then He brings it down to some who are actually standing there that will see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom. Peter, James and John, in the next chapter, go on to witness the transfiguration. This is the same pattern in in Mark and Luke. I fail to see the big mystery here. He was referring to the transfiguration in the latter part of the prophecy.


So the second verse, Matthew 16:28, is about the Transfiguration? You know, we have another Christian here who has claimed that the verse is about Pentecost!

Which is it then? The Transfiguration? Or Pentecost? :)

Who is right about this?

I think you may both be wrong actually, because Matthew 16:27-28 happens to line up very well with Matthew 24.


DivineNames said:
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:27-28 NIV)

[quote:30ea6]If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:26-27 NIV)

If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels." And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." (Mark 8:38-9:1 NIV)


So the term being used is, "Son of Man". The Son of Man is going to come "in glory". The Son of Man is going to come, "with power". He is going to come with angels. And the Son of Man is going to judge people: "and then he will reward each person according to what he has done".

Lets compare these verses with Matthew 24-

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:30-31 NIV)

And the Son of Man will judge-

The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:50-51 NIV)

[/quote:30ea6]
 
lovely said:
Matthew 24:34-35
This is actually the latter part of the Parable of the Fig Tree which follows the prophecy of the second coming in Matthew 24 beginning with verse 27. These verses describe the second coming...and goes through the signs...one of whcich includes the Great Tribulation (which happens in the future yet). Then, in the Parable of the Fig Tree, Jesus instructs us to learn from the fig tree. When the branches are tender, and bringing forth leaves, summer is near. So, you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near...at the doors! The signs of the Fig tree, are compared to the signs of the second coming.. Then, Jesus continues on to let us know that we can be assured these things will take place before this generation passes away (this generation refering back to the one in which these things begin). Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. Jesus is clearly speaking here of the generation as the one in which these signs begin (I believe Scott said this VERY early on), and He used the fig tree as a picture, to explain the short span of that particular season when the signs begin.

Firstly, I have provided an argument against this interpretation, which you haven't responded to. Secondly, even if you are right, Jesus would still have given a false prophecy for the reason previously given.
 
lovely said:
I have been following this thread. I think that no matter what we say, or believe, non-believers are just as set in their non-belief as we, believers, are our faith. A non-believer is deceived into thinking that they are somehow more objective, or more intelligent, than believers because they are skeptical...that is their credential. This is satan's oldest trick in the book, to play on man's own vantiy, and self love. We should have compassion, because but for the grace of God, through the witness of the Holy Spirit, we would be in the same lost state.


You seem to be saying that you will believe that Jesus gave true prophecy whatever. That is, it doesn't matter to you what the evidence does or doesn't suggest, you will not even consider the idea that Jesus may have given a false prophecy. You seem to admit that you have a closed mind on this issue. This may be true for yourself, and it may be true for some other Christians, (I imagine so), but I doubt that what you are saying is going to be true for all Christians.

In this thread (page 1) I have provided a copy/paste of part of an article. The author of that article says that he gave up his Christian belief because of researching this issue. I have mentioned C.S. Lewis, who apparently accepted that Jesus gave a false prophecy.

If you want to confess that you yourself have a closed mind, well at least you are being honest I guess. But perhaps you should avoid indulging in speculation and generalizations about everyone else?
 
follower of Christ said:
Jesus claimed that all of the events would happen within the lifetime of some of his immediate followers. These would be 1st century events, that is when Jesus was supposed to return.
incorrect.


WHEN we see these signs..

[quote:4c62d]
"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(Mat 24:32-34 KJV)

So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
(Mar 13:29-30 KJV)

So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
(Luk 21:31-32 KJV)

..then THIS generation that sees them will not pass away....[/quote:4c62d]

Well again, I have provided an argument against this interpretation, which you haven't responded to. And even if you are right, Jesus would still have given a false prophecy.
 
PotLuck said:
Let's continue with that verse.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


The transfiguration occured shortly after in view of some who were there. Was the transfiguration the Son of Man coming in his kingdom? Does this not testify to Christ's claim that He would return in the Father's glory? I'd say so. :wink:

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Mat 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.


I have a few points to make against this-

With regard to the Transfiguration, (Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:2-9, Luke 9:28-36), there is nothing in the text which would suggest that it is the event predicted in Matthew 16:28. Not as far as I can see. Can you provide some argument on this point?

In Matthew 16:28, Jesus is saying that some would live to see the event in question. "some who are standing here will not taste death..." Now that is a very strange thing to be saying about an event that is only a few days away! It doesn't seem to make much sense that Jesus would be talking about the Transfiguration.

Matthew 16:27-28 etc. has a strong correspondence with Matthew 24. Matthew 16:28 has, "see the Son of Man coming", which corresponds to Matthew 24. I believe this does rather suggest that the two verses (Matthew 16:27-28) are connected. I can't see any justification to split them apart, and the attempt to do so appears to be somewhat desperate.

On my interpretation of Matthew 16:27-28 and Matthew 24:34, there is a harmony between them, they "line up" perfectly. I believe that such harmony provides considerable support to what I am saying, considering the correspondence between Matthew 16:27-28 etc. and Matthew 24.
 
PotLuck said:
Actually it found it's mark. What "follower of Christ" addressed was one of the major opening arguments...

Jesus claimed that all of the events would happen within the lifetime of some of his immediate followers. These would be 1st century events, that is when Jesus was supposed to return.

DivineNames needs to define generation as a lifetime as in definition "1" below to support his argument but generation may also refer to the Jews as a race in general as defined in "2".

Yes, you can dispute the meaning of the word being translated as "generation", this is part of the argument. But I will point out that the events are fixed in the 1st century in a few different ways.



PotLuck said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=generation
Generation:
1) A group of individuals born and living about the same time.
2) A group of generally contemporaneous individuals regarded as having common cultural or social characteristics and attitudes: “They're the television generationâ€Â
3) A stage or period of sequential technological development and innovation.


Along with definition "2" or "3" (I'd say the last covenant was quite innovative. ;)) is another concept of looking at "generation" as referring to the covenants of God to man. (A stage or period of sequential agreements made with man from God) The covenant ratified by Christ is the last. Therefore all those after Christ's work on the cross are the generation of the new covenant. This generation can not pass away until all things are fulfilled for this is the last covenant toward mankind.


I am interested in what grounds you have for interpreting the verse in this way? (I am a little suspicious that you may just be trying to avoid the problem, without actually having good reason for your interpretation...)
 
2NCBrother, I looked at the articles you gave links for.

How could the creator of the perfect universe, which is a gigantic and inordinately intricate example of hyper intelligence, perfection and complete understanding wisdom and control, write or inspire to be written such a daft book?

Or: Why would such a clever guy write such a stupid book?

How can the true God, the grand creator of the great works that Newton and Einstein could barely scratch into the surface of be an order of magnitude worse than Steven Spielberg when it comes to telling a story?

The reader might think that asking this question is an insult to God, or even a blasphemy. We would argue that not asking this question is the real insult, an insult that all mankind has been repeating every day for the past 2000 years. Because by not asking this question you are saying that you would expect God to inspire such a badly written book (in the literal meaning). You are saying that you are not surprised that he has written such a book. Which is saying that you do not think he is capable of telling a story properly. Whereas the more logical and more respectful explanation for the peculiar way in which the bible is written, is that just as Newton and Einstein knew that they were only scratching at the surface of the beauty and perfection of God’s universe, so the seeker of bible truth knows that he is only scratching at the surface of the beauty and perfection of God’s holy book. And this surface is the literal meaning of the book.

http://www.truebiblecode.com/code.html


You think the Bible has to have hidden meaning? Because on the face of it, the Bible is badly written rubbish?

Interesting argument... :)
 
DivineNames said:
Jesus didn't keep his promise.
After one studies the Bible....the whole Bible, Old Testament mostly, one sees that God's promises, on based on conditions.

"If you do this....I (God) will do that"

My website, goes into detail, on the very subject of God's promises, being based on conditions.
 
Wow....

I just spent the last hour reading this entire thread and it has been exhausting. DivineNames makes some good arguments that no one has countered. Although I did get a little tired of him repeating himself. I have also seen some counter arguments that make sense, but some that seem to dance around the subject.

If you interpret this passage as DivineNames has it does seem that Jesus was wrong. Now I am not a Biblical scholar nor do I claim to know all there is to know about Christianity, but I will speak some of my thoughts.

Jesus said no man knows when he will return. Jesus, even though he was the son of God, while on Earth was a man. Since he was a man even he did not know when he would return. He thought perhaps it would be in the lifetime of his immediate followers, which would make him wrong.

But that leaves me questioning God's motives in allowing the Messiah to give false predictions. Jesus could do no wrong so why would he say something to be true if he knew that he was unsure?

I am studying the life of Jesus and this is a big part of the story, but it makes me think.... even if people of the first century thought he was coming back in their lifetime, don't you think that a generation or two after them would sit back and say "wait a minute, he never came back." If Jesus was wrong how could his following last over 2000 years?

Now I am just stating thoughts that popped into my head. I am not arguing this point either way, in fact I am still studying it to make my own conclusions. I don't want my post to lead to responses that would hijack this thread.

And on a side note.... could posters please format their posts so that it is easier to read. Maybe use some punctuation and throw in some capital letters every now and again. It is a lot easier on the eyes... especially when looking at a computer screen for hours. Preview your post and see how it looks before hitting submit.

Thanks :wink:
 
DivineNames said:
... You think the Bible has to have hidden meaning? Because on the face of it, the Bible is badly written rubbish?

Interesting argument... :)
Not interesting actually. D, some of the information in that post is wrong. The info on that link is Watchtower rubbish. Yeah, I said rubbish. :x
 
I have neglected this thread and I'm sorry I did. I will repeat something I said a while back in the thread and then it's time for it to got locked.

vic said:
Thanks Kelfa.

After looking over this thread again, I overlooked one thing that I agree with 100%:

This generation, I believe is refering to the generation in which these prophecies all become true together will not have passed. In other words when the dominos start to fall, all these prophecies will occur in the lifetime of that generation in which they started.
Scott... and Judy who followed his post, are correct in their assessment. IMO and how I understand Scripture from a spirit-inspired position, of course.
 
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