Was Judas saved and now sitting with the Lord in heaven?

[Honey]

And after the piece-of-bread, at that time Satan entered into that one. Then Jesus says to him, “What you are doing, do quicker ”.​

John 13:27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 13:27&version=DLNT

Was it God’s will for Judas to continue what he was doing, even quicker?

Apparently.

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover. And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to put him to death, for they feared the people. Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them. And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. So he consented and sought an opportunity to betray him to them in the absence of a crowd. (Luke 22:1–6)


Mark14:20 He answered and said to them, “It is one of the twelve, who dips with Me in the dish. 21 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.”

 

[FreeGrace]

Are born again Pastors who help themselves to the coffers of their congregation going to hell?

No born again person shall EVER PERISH. As Jesus taught. Recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

See? Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

Straight from the mouth of Jesus.

 

[JLB]

See? Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

Once again, as your practice, you don’t quote the scripture but rather you state what your preconceived idea is, then you post a scripture reference, which in this case is half of the statement Jesus made about this subject.

John 10:28 is the result of meeting the condition that Jesus set forth for being His sheep, and receiving eternal life.

Then when we examine the other things Jesus said about receiving eternal life and reconcile them with what He said in John 10:27-28, it gives us a complete understanding.

First of all here is what Jesus said in John 10:28:

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• And I give them eternal life.

And, in this case, is a conjunction which connects the condition with the result.

The people who receive eternal life, are those who hear His Voice, and know Him, and follow Him.

Hear His voice means to listen with the intention of obeying.

IOW those sheep who hear His Voice but follow Him for a while, then no longer follow Him, but wander from Him and become lost, don’t meet the conditions He established for receiving eternal life.


Following Him for a while is what Judas did, then he became lost, just as Jesus knew he would but Judas always had the choice to repent and turn back to Him and be forgiven, just as the prodigal son did, and was reconciled back to his father.


Other scriptures that deal with eternal life, also when studied as a complete subject, give us a complete understanding.


Eternal life is said to be inherited.


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

• shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Those who have faith in Jesus Christ have the hope of inheriting eternal life.


that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7

• we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Jesus also said this about that Day.


24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:24-29


Again here is the same condition as John 10:27 -

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

We see this condition everywhere we look concerning inheriting eternal life on the Day Jesus returns.


all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

If you want to discuss all the scriptures that pertain to inheriting eternal life, in which we reconcile the full context of each statement made about this subject, then I will be glad to.


However, if this turns out to be just another case where you never write out the different scriptures but just keep repeating your opinion, of a verse taken out of context, then I won’t waste my time.



JLB

 

[Randy]

This is the One who judges -doesnt sound promising for Judas - who suffers because of His own doing.
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"See? Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish."

Once again, as your practice, you don’t quote the scripture but rather you state what your preconceived idea is, then you post a scripture reference, which in this case is half of the statement Jesus made about this subject.

Thanks for the opportunity to clear up whatever it was that I apparently missed, or, worse, mis-stated.

Here is the reference, John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

OK, what does "I GIVE THEM eternal life" mean, if not "recipients of eternal life"? So please take this opportunity to clear things up for me.

Second, what does "shall never perish" mean, if not NEVER perishing? So please take this opportunity to clear things up for me.

Third, the last phrase that I don't quote, which says that no one, meaning NO PERSON, will snatch (which means take) them out of Jesus' hand. So please take this opportunity to clear up how this phrase doesn't mean eternal security.

Thanks for giving me this opportunity to see if the money is where the mouth is.

John 10:28 is the result of meeting the condition that Jesus set forth for being His sheep, and receiving eternal life.

This is blatantly false. There is NO CONDITION for HOW to be one of His sheep in this verse, or even the previous verse. Those who are well versed in the English language clearly see that no condition for how to be one of His sheep is given. However, we DO SEE how to become one of His sheep (meaning how to be saved) from v.9 in the same chapter: I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

There it is; clear as crystal. Now, I am confident that anyone who has already put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation understands that "enters through Me" is a direct reference to placing one's faith in Christ for salvation. And the RESULT is "will be saved".

v.27 is NO CONDITION for anything. It's a description of Jesus' sheep. NOT a condition for how to become one.

And there is NO LANGUAGE in v.28 about conditions placed on recipients of eternal life in order to never perish.

But since it seems the argument here is that Jesus DID put conditions on never perishing, please take this opportunity to clear things up and show us exactly what conditions Jesus placed on those He gives (recipients) eternal life. That will clear everything up and support your claim.

Absent that explanation, your claim remains a mere opinion, and without any Scriptural support.

So I look forward to your opportunity to finally provide an explanation for how your opinion is supported by Scripture.

Then when we examine the other things Jesus said about receiving eternal life and reconcile them with what He said in John 10:27-28, it gives us a complete understanding.

OK, I see. So v.28 isn't "complete". Well, that sure gives one a HUGE HOLE to jump through. This is just an excuse to NOT BELIEVE v.28 as stated. Cute. But not really.

First of all here is what Jesus said in John 10:28: My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

And I give them eternal life.

And, in this case, is a conjunction which connects the condition with the result.

No it doesn't. Those well versed in the English language know that it doesn't. Making a claim doesn't make anything true.

What the conjunction does is connect "His sheep" with those He "gives eternal life". That's ALL it does. It has NOTHING to do with conditions.

The people who receive eternal life, are those who hear His Voice, and know Him, and follow Him.

Hear His voice means to listen with the intention of obeying.

Yes. Obeying the gospel means to believe the gospel.

IOW those sheep who hear His Voice but follow Him for a while, then no longer follow Him, but wander from Him and become lost, don’t meet the conditions He established for receiving eternal life.

This opinion DEMANDS Scripture to support it. And there isn't any. Or it would have been given. So this opinion can be ignored since no Scriptural support is offered.

Following Him for a while is what Judas did, then he became lost, just as Jesus knew he would but Judas always had the choice to repent and turn back to Him and be forgiven, just as the prodigal son did, and was reconciled back to his father.

What Scripture says that one receives eternal life by following Jesus? There isn't any, so the claim is FALSE.

Other scriptures that deal with eternal life, also when studied as a complete subject, give us a complete understanding.

Amen! They sure do.

Here are some:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Please point out which verses says to follow Him for eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

Part B of my response to JLB:

From JLB:

Eternal life is said to be inherited.

As a child of God, yes. Comes with the territory.

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

Seriously? This is about actions, lifestyle, behavior. Is that how one inherits eternal life? If the answer is yes, which your whole claim points to, then your whole claim concludes that eternal life is EARNED. This is nothing more than a works based salvation. Which I reject, as does the Bible.

shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

This is about what is earned. And eternal life isn't earned. Period.

Those who have faith in Jesus Christ have the hope of inheriting eternal life.

This false statement suggests that one hopes to earn eternal life someday. Nonsense.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

This single verse SCREAMS eternal security.

1. Those who believe HAVE eternal life. That means they possess eternal life WHEN they believe, SINCE there are NO verses about receivng eternal life any time AFTER believing, so we KNOW it is received the MOMENT one believes.
2. The RESULT of believing is this:
a. possession of eternal life presently
b. shall NOT come into judgment
c. HAS passed from death (spiritual) to life (eternal).

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:24-29

The rest of these verses ALL pivot on v.24, which explains HOW one possesses etrenal life.

Again here is the same condition as John 10:27 -

he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

Must be a type. V.27 says nothing like this. This comes directly from 5:24.

If you want to discuss all the scriptures that pertain to inheriting eternal life, in which we reconcile the full context of each statement made about this subject, then I will be glad to.

No. Let's just focus on your opportunity to clear things up by addressing my points at the beginning of this post.

However, if this turns out to be just another case where you never write out the different scriptures but just keep repeating your opinion, of a verse taken out of context

Since I've cited ALL the verses that do support my view, all one would need to do if they were really serious about addressing what I claim, is to quote said verses and then try to prove the point. Or show how the verses I cite are "taken out of context".

Anyone can claim literally anything. So what? It's only the claims that are backed up with FACTS and verses that actually SAY what is being claimed, as I've done, that mean anything.

Claims without evidence are a waste of time.

then I won’t waste my time.
JLB

Then don't keep making claims that don't have verses that SAY what is being claimed then.

 

[FreeGrace]

This is the One who judges -doesnt sound promising for Judas - who suffers because of His own doing.
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

Right! Wasn't saved because he never believed.

 

[JLB]

This is the One who judges -doesnt sound promising for Judas - who suffers because of His own doing.
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

Yes sir. Of course Judas went to his own place, having betrayed Jesus.


However, did Judas ever believe?


He heard His voice and followed Him for 31/2 years, in which he became an Apostle.

He was sent out as a sheep to preach the gospel, heal the sick, cast out devils, and raise the dead.


And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was[a] Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead,[c] cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Matthew 10:1-16

• Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves.

These verse tell me that Judas was a believer and a sheep, then later became lost.

• And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Part B of my response to JLB:

From JLB:
As a child of God, yes. Comes with the territory.

When do you believe we will inherit eternal life?

 

[WIP]

Let's drop the OSAS vs OSNAS argument and get back to discussing the topic of THIS thread. As it seems some may have forgotten, this thread is about Judas.

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"See? Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish."

Thanks for the opportunity to clear up whatever it was that I apparently missed, or, worse, mis-stated.

Here is the reference, John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

OK, what does "I GIVE THEM eternal life" mean, if not "recipients of eternal life"? So please take this opportunity to clear things up for me.

Second, what does "shall never perish" mean, if not NEVER perishing? So please take this opportunity to clear things up for me.

Third, the last phrase that I don't quote, which says that no one, meaning NO PERSON, will snatch (which means take) them out of Jesus' hand. So please take this opportunity to clear up how this phrase doesn't mean eternal security.

Thanks for giving me this opportunity to see if the money is where the mouth is.


This is blatantly false. There is NO CONDITION for HOW to be one of His sheep in this verse, or even the previous verse. Those who are well versed in the English language clearly see that no condition for how to be one of His sheep is given. However, we DO SEE how to become one of His sheep (meaning how to be saved) from v.9 in the same chapter: I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

There it is; clear as crystal. Now, I am confident that anyone who has already put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation understands that "enters through Me" is a direct reference to placing one's faith in Christ for salvation. And the RESULT is "will be saved".

v.27 is NO CONDITION for anything. It's a description of Jesus' sheep. NOT a condition for how to become one.

And there is NO LANGUAGE in v.28 about conditions placed on recipients of eternal life in order to never perish.

But since it seems the argument here is that Jesus DID put conditions on never perishing, please take this opportunity to clear things up and show us exactly what conditions Jesus placed on those He gives (recipients) eternal life. That will clear everything up and support your claim.

Absent that explanation, your claim remains a mere opinion, and without any Scriptural support.

So I look forward to your opportunity to finally provide an explanation for how your opinion is supported by Scripture.



OK, I see. So v.28 isn't "complete". Well, that sure gives one a HUGE HOLE to jump through. This is just an excuse to NOT BELIEVE v.28 as stated. Cute. But not really.


No it doesn't. Those well versed in the English language know that it doesn't. Making a claim doesn't make anything true.

What the conjunction does is connect "His sheep" with those He "gives eternal life". That's ALL it does. It has NOTHING to do with conditions.

The people who receive eternal life, are those who hear His Voice, and know Him, and follow Him.


Yes. Obeying the gospel means to believe the gospel.


This opinion DEMANDS Scripture to support it. And there isn't any. Or it would have been given. So this opinion can be ignored since no Scriptural support is offered.


What Scripture says that one receives eternal life by following Jesus? There isn't any, so the claim is FALSE.


Amen! They sure do.

Here are some:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Please point out which verses says to follow Him for eternal life.

I don’t believe Judas was saved and sitting with the Lord because he did not continue to follow the Lord, but turned from Him and became lost.

Here is the verse that shows us the condition Jesus gave for receiving or inheriting eternal life.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Verse 28 can not be isolated from verse 27.

Verse 28 is the other half of His statement which begins in verse 27 and is the condition set forth for to receive eternal life.

• My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me
• and

“And” connects verse 27 with verse 28.
IOW if a sheep does not follow his shepherd he will become lost.

Do you believe lost people will receive or inherit eternal life?

This is why I believe Judas was not saved and sitting with Jesus in heaven.



JLB

PS

I think it’s time for me to bow out of this thread
There is no need for me to keep making this point.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes sir. Of course Judas went to his own place, having betrayed Jesus.

However, did Judas ever believe?

We actually KNOW he never believed. And we know this by Jesus' response to Peter's WRONG claim in John 6:69.

Here's Peter's WRONG claim:
v. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Really? Was Peter right or not? NOT!!

This is how Jesus responded to what Peter said.

v. 70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Does this sound like an agreement with what Peter said? Of course not. He was REFUTING what Peter said. Clearly.

And, just for clarity, John follows up Jesus' refutation of Peter's WRONG statement in v. 71.

v. 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

And v.71 refers back to v.64 - Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.

He heard His voice and followed Him for 31/2 years, in which he became an Apostle.

He was sent out as a sheep to preach the gospel, heal the sick, cast out devils, and raise the dead.

All this just demonstrates that you can't judge a book by its cover.

Jesus REFUTED what Peter said in v.69. Jesus CORRECTED Peter's error.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was[a] Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead,[c] cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Matthew 10:1-16

• 
  
  • Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves.

These verse tell me that Judas was a believer and a sheep, then later became lost.

Actually, these verses SAY NOTHING about Judas EVER believing in Jesus as Messiah.

But some will only see what they want to see.

 

[JLB]

We actually KNOW he never believed. And we know this by Jesus' response to Peter's WRONG claim in John 6:69.

Here's Peter's WRONG claim:
v. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Really? Was Peter right or not? NOT!!

I believe Peter was right is claiming the 12 disciples believed Jesus was the Christ.


I believe he was inspired to make this statement.

But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I believe Peter was right is claiming the 12 disciples believed Jesus was the Christ.

Anyone is free to believe anything they want to believe.

But Jesus' response to Peter's statement in John 6:69 shows that Peter was WRONG and Jesus had to CORRECT his error.

Kinda like Peter's hypocrisy in Gal 2 where Paul had to brace and correct him in front of other believers.

Peter needed correction a number of times. In Gal 2, in Mark 8:33, and John 6:70.

I believe he was inspired to make this statement.

Anyone is free to believe anything they want to believe.

But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69
JLB

Why not include v.70? Because it shows Jesus CORRECTING Peter's FALSE statement.

 

[Papa Zoom]

The thread is about whether Judas was saved and sitting with Jesus in heaven. So the debate regarding OSAS and OSNAS is quite relevant to this thread, as some are arguing that he was at one time saved, but then lost salvation when he betrayed Jesus.

No, it's not. And I'm getting tired of the OSAS argument and my patience with it is thin. I'm closing this thread as enough has been said peeps. Nothing more to add. Move on.

 

[Papa Zoom]

The thread is about whether Judas was saved and sitting with Jesus in heaven. So the debate regarding OSAS and OSNAS is quite relevant to this thread, as some are arguing that he was at one time saved, but then lost salvation when he betrayed Jesus.

And BTW, arguing in a thread with a MOD about a directive is an automatic removal from the thread in my way of handling things. So keep that in mind.

 

[Papa Zoom]

OKAY, so unless I hear a strong objection (write me in a PM) I'm leaving this thread closed. I believe it's run its course. Let me know if you strongly object. I can be convinced otherwise.