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Was Judas saved and now sitting with the Lord in heaven?

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#21
This tells me he was regretful for what he had done. WHAT IF HE BELIEVED JUST BEFORE TAKING HIS LIFE? He will be sitting RIGHT now with Christ and the apostles in heaven according to the easy believism teaching. It's an appalling thought that Judas is sitting with Jesus and the apostles in heaven. But fortunately friends, EASY BELIEVISM is nothing but heresy. That's what it is, since it takes obedience (and baptism) out of the equation and NEGATES the teachings of the Lord.
This seems to me to be confused theology. If Judas sincerely repented and sincerely believed just before taking his life, I wouldn't be appalled in the slightest at knowing he was in heaven. This isn't "easy believism," any more than the thief who turned to Jesus on the cross was an example of easy believism. It is simply an example of someone sincerely repenting and sincerely believing at the last moments of life. The Eastern Orthodox church - which is about as far from what you are calling easy believism as it is possible to get - nevertheless recognizes the validity of sincere deathbed conversions. I happen to have just encountered this discussion in the writings of Russian Orthodox saint Ignatius Brianchaninov. Writing primarily to monks, he emphasizes that the moment of conversion is merely a "seed" to be diligently watered for the rest of one's life in order to ripen into salvation, but he likewise recognizes the validity of the conversion of the thief on the cross and of deathbed conversions. Are we like the workers in the Parable of the Workers In the Vineyard (Matthew 20) - unhappy because someone else doesn't seem to have labored as long or as hard for his salvation?

I don't believe there is an absolutely clear answer regarding Judas. Suicide would be an odd course for someone who had just sincerely repented and believed, but perhaps not if one were overwhelmed by the gravity of having betrayed the Son of God. I've always found Judas to be somewhat of a sympathetic figure and will hold out hope until the truth is known. If he was simply created for this role - created for destruction from the get-go - I would find that somewhat appalling.

Easy believism to me is what is typically discussed here as Once Saved Always Saved. That debate is exceedingly tired and tiresome. Suffice it to say, no one in the first 1600 years of Christianity believed OSAS, the oldest branches of Christianity (Eastern Orthodox and Catholic) don't believe it in a big way, and you can support it only by doing some pretty bizarre gyrations with the Bible. More than that, whether OSAS or OSNAS is true does not affect my life in the slightest. If the OSAS sort of easy believism is true notwithstanding history and the Bible to the contrary - well, whoopee, there will be more people in heaven.
 
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#22
Being innocent doesn't equate to believing that Jesus is the Messiah.
His charge was for
Being innocent doesn't equate to believing that Jesus is the Messiah.
His was charged with being the Christ, the King of the Jews.

Judas said He was innocent.
Christians believe He was guilty of being the Christ, thr King of the Jews.
 
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#23
His charge was for

His was charged with being the Christ, the King of the Jews.

Judas said He was innocent.
Christians believe He was guilty of being the Christ, thr King of the Jews.
If he did finally at the end believe that Jesus was the Messiah, then why was this said about him?

1. Acts 1:24-25 24 Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs

Sure doesn't sound like he belonged in heaven.

2. John 17:12 - While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

So, if Judas had believed, he perished anyway. Which contradicted what Jesus said plainly in John 10:28. Those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

It's clear that Judas perished.

Since Jesus never lied, it's clear that Judas never believed.
 

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#24
The way I understand it, what the Jews believed Jesus was guilty of was His claim to be God and therefore, blasphemy but blasphemy was a religious crime that Rome could care less about so the Jews used Jesus' claim to be King of the Jews as an excuse and a justification for Pilate to execute Him because claiming to be King would be a threat to Rome. It was Pilate that had the charges posted on the cross, not the Jews. The Jews denied Jesus was the King and wanted the wording changed to be "He claimed he was the King of the Jews."
 
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#25
It was Pilate that had the charges posted on the cross, not the Jews.
Now Jesus was stood in front of the governor. And the governor questioned Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?” And Jesus said, “ You are saying it ”. And during His being accused by the chief priests and elders, He answered nothing. Then Pilate says to Him, “Do You not hear how many things they are testifying against You?” And He did not answer him with-regard-to even one charge, so that the governor was marveling greatly.
Matthew 27:11-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 27:11-14&version=DLNT

It could not have been stated any clearer.

The charge (whic the chief priests and elders accused Jesus of AND presented “many things” in supporting testimony to the governor) was of being “King of the Jews”.

It’s like being charged with murder, sent to trial for murder, convicted of murder based on the testimony presented, sentenced to death for murder and executed for murder.

You cannot change the charge at the execution to assault, a different crime.

And it cannot be supported from Scripture that Judas thought anything other than Jesus was innocent of being the King of the Jews, the Holy One, the Christ:

So they having been gathered together, Pilate said to them, “Whom do you want me to release for you? Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus, the One being called Christ?” For he knew that they handed Him over because of envy. And while he was sitting on the judgment-seat, his wife sent out a message to him, saying, “Have nothing to do with that righteous One. For I suffered greatly today in a dream because of Him”.
Matthew 27:17-19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 27:17-19&version=DLNT

Yes, the high priests and elders condemned Him, handed Him over to the Romans, accused Him before the governor and testified to this charge out of envy and unbelief in His guilt of the charge (being the One, the Christ, the King of the Jews). They didn’t believe Jesus was the Christ. Neither did Judas!

Then Judas (the one handing Him over)— having seen that He was condemned, having regretted it — returned the thirty silver-coins to the chief priests and elders, saying, “I sinned, having handed-over innocent blood!” But the ones said, “What is it to us? You shall see to it ”.
Matthew 27:3-4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 27:3-4&version=DLNT

Simple really. Judas believed Jesus to be “innocent” of the charge; of being King of the Jews, the Holy/righteous One, the Christ!
 

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#26
This is what I understand to be the crime for which they wanted to kill Him.

57 And those who had laid hold of Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled. 58 But Peter followed Him at a distance to the high priest’s courtyard. And he went in and sat with the servants to see the end. 59 Now the chief priests, the elders, and all the council sought false testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, 60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none. But at last two false witnesses came forward 61 and said, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’”62 And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! 66 What do you think?” They answered and said, “He is deserving of death.” Matthew 26:57-66 NKJV

Here, in Luke's gospel, chapter 23:1-4 NKJV, we can read this. Notice that Pilot doesn't find that a crime was committed even after Jesus admitted to being the King of the Jews.

1 Then the whole multitude of them arose and led Him to Pilate. 2 And they began to accuse Him, saying, “We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, saying that He Himself is Christ, a King.” 3 Then Pilate asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?” He answered him and said, “It is as you say.” 4 So Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowd, “I find no fault in this Man.”


Same thing here in John's gospel, Chapter 18:28-38 NKJV.

28 Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. 29 Pilate then went out to them and said, “What accusation do you bring against this Man?” 30 They answered and said to him, “If He were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you.” 31 Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.” Therefore the Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,” 32 that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which He spoke, signifying by what death He would die. 33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?” 35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” 37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” 38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no fault in Him at all.


Then here in chapter 19:1-16 NKJV they finally convince Pilate.

1 So then Pilate took Jesus and scourged Him. 2 And the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and they put on Him a purple robe. 3 Then they said,[a] “Hail, King of the Jews!” And they struck Him with their hands. 4 Pilate then went out again, and said to them, “Behold, I am bringing Him out to you, that you may know that I find no fault in Him.” 5 Then Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. And Pilate said to them, “Behold the Man!” 6 Therefore, when the chief priests and officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, “Crucify Him, crucify Him!Pilate said to them, “You take Him and crucify Him, for I find no fault in Him.” 7 The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to our law He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God.” 8 Therefore, when Pilate heard that saying, he was the more afraid, 9 and went again into the Praetorium, and said to Jesus, “Where are You from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” 11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” 12 From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, “If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar’s friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar.13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus out and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called The Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14 Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold your King!” 15 But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!” Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!” 16 Then he delivered Him to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus and led Him away.
 
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#27
And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said.
Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king.
That’s my Biblical point.
The charge against Him and His execution was for being the Christ, the Holy One, the Son of God, the King of the Jews.

And Judas believed Him innocent.

Then Judas (the one handing Him over)— having seen that He was condemned, having regretted it — returned the thirty silver-coins to the chief priests and elders, saying, “I sinned, having handed-over innocent blood!

Simple.
Pilate as well, didn’t believe Him to be the Christ. That’s my point.
 
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#28
The way I understand it, what the Jews believed Jesus was guilty of was His claim to be God and therefore, blasphemy but blasphemy was a religious crime that Rome could care less about so the Jews used Jesus' claim to be King of the Jews as an excuse and a justification for Pilate to execute Him because claiming to be King would be a threat to Rome. It was Pilate that had the charges posted on the cross, not the Jews. The Jews denied Jesus was the King and wanted the wording changed to be "He claimed he was the King of the Jews."
Excellent point! What Judas did believe was that Jesus was not the king of the Jews. Jesus was innocent of that charge.
 
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#29
It's so easy to accept Christ as the savior and so challenging to accept Him as the LORD, because with that comes the obedience part. We are all sinners, and yet we have been commanded to pick up The Cross deny the flesh daily and FOLLOW Him. We will stumble and fall often in our walk of obedience BUT if we have a repentant heart He will surely forgive us-- we are covered in His blood shed on the Cross. But I am scared for those who are not even willing to try. This easy believism will take plenty of UNREPENTANT murderers and deep, deep unrepentant sinners into heaven who will then spend an eternity with those who accepted the Jesus both as Savior and Lord and suffered for His sake--- including His apostles. Indeed people like Manson, Osama, Hitler and their likes will all laugh their heads off when they land into HEAVEN just by proclaiming Christ as their lord in their last breath without repenting one bit for their mammoth sins. This is WHAT easy believism teaches . and that's what is taught rampantly in most Churches nowadays. Matthew 27:3–10 says that Judas Iscariot returned the money to the priests and committed suicide by hanging himself.
This tells me he was regretful for what he had done. WHAT IF HE BELIEVED JUST BEFORE TAKING HIS LIFE? He will be sitting RIGHT now with Christ and the apostles in heaven according to the easy believism teaching. It's an appalling thought that Judas is sitting with Jesus and the apostles in heaven. But fortunately friends, EASY BELIEVISM is nothing but heresy. That's what it is, since it takes obedience (and baptism) out of the equation and NEGATES the teachings of the Lord.
Christ Himself explains under WHAT circumstances will He be with us eternally... SAVED
Matthew 28: 18-20
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to OBEY everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
1) make disciples = accepting Christ as savior ( absolutely needed for salvation ) and so are the following other things
2) baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit---- Baptism IS needed for salvation
3) OBEY everything I have commanded------- Obedience is as important as above two points

Jesus is making it implicitly clear all three things are needed------- FAITH, BAPTISM, AND OBEDIENCE for salvation. If they weren't needed/ important Why would he ask His disciples to do it in the great commission -----it was an order and not a request-- hence it's not optional.
Jesus Himself in Matthew 7: 21 clearly communicates to us - that many believers ( most unfortunately) will not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven
"Not everyone who says to Me,Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven"
Lets also examine similar words of Christ , this time in Matthew 12:48-50
"Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

In simple words, it means if we choose to NOT do the will of father God ( but only our will) we have NO RELATION with Jesus. We were just fake believers.

So by what is being taught in several Christian churches across the country-- "You believe and you're saved" doctrine. By that standard, is Judas sitting with the Lord in heaven, if he chose to believe, moments before taking his life?
Can we really say what God chose for Judas?
This has been an issue probably from the start but have we ever asked ourselves, how would Jesus have met his fate otherwise? And being Jesus was known by at least one member of the temple hierarchy witnessed Jesus miracles personally, why did the Sanhedrin require Judas to identify Jesus? A betrayer among Jesus' disciples is more reliable in identifying Jesus than one of their own?
Jesus chose his disciples to walk with him and knew those who would walk away and leave his ministry. (1 John 2:19) Jesus knowing all things chose Judas Iscariot to be his disciple. And he told him also to go and do what he must do after he broke bread with him at Passover.

John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
 
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WinterPuma

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#30
No one can explain how any recipient of eternal life can perish, yet believe that a recipient can, based on behavior.
Based on the first part, I agree. But yet, as you know, there are but a few who insist that is true. One even said, eternal salvation by faith is not biblical.

But how would that be possible, when Jesus said directly that recipients shall never perish.
Yes, Jesus did say that directly. And he died to seal the new covenant guarantee.

Them's strong words. imo
Not strong enough for some. Because they refute them any chance they get. Isn't that against the faith statement of this site?
 
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#31
John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
I believe that John 6:70-71 are directly related to v.64,65.
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

In v.64 Jesus noted that there were some disciples who did not believe in Him and John added that Jesus knew who would betray Him.. Then, in v.71, John clarifies a bit further by including Judas as one who would betray Him.

Since v.64 included both unbelief and betrayal, it seems quite reasonable that Judas didn't believe and did betray, being a disciple.

If Judas ever believed, he would have been given eternal life, since Jesus said that those who believe possess eternal life in John 5:24 and 6:47.

That said, Jesus also said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish, in John 10:28. But Scripture is clear that Judas was the "son of perdition" (John 17:12) who was lost.

So it was impossible that Judas ever believed, since he was lost according to Jesus, and Jesus said those He gives eternal life (that means all who believe in Him) shall never perish.

Judas perished. He never believed.
 
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#32
I said:
"No one can explain how any recipient of eternal life can perish, yet believe that a recipient can, based on behavior."
Based on the first part, I agree. But yet, as you know, there are but a few who insist that is true. One even said, eternal salvation by faith is not biblical.
It is quite perplexing that many don't believe that those who are given eternal life shall never perish, esp since Jesus said so.

Yes, Jesus did say that directly. And he died to seal the new covenant guarantee.
Amen!

Not strong enough for some. Because they refute them any chance they get. Isn't that against the faith statement of this site?
Does seem so.
 
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#33
I said:
"No one can explain how any recipient of eternal life can perish, yet believe that a recipient can, based on behavior."

It is quite perplexing that many don't believe that those who are given eternal life shall never perish, esp since Jesus said so.
I think when such argumentative persons insist they don't believe this about their personal faith that they are saying quite a bit more than we can openly discuss here.

And thank God! :)


Does seem so.
If it is so , then it would seem to be overlooked and permitted repeatedly.
 

JLB

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#34
It's so easy to accept Christ as the savior and so challenging to accept Him as the LORD, because with that comes the obedience part. We are all sinners, and yet we have been commanded to pick up The Cross deny the flesh daily and FOLLOW Him. We will stumble and fall often in our walk of obedience BUT if we have a repentant heart He will surely forgive us-- we are covered in His blood shed on the Cross. But I am scared for those who are not even willing to try. This easy believism will take plenty of UNREPENTANT murderers and deep, deep unrepentant sinners into heaven who will then spend an eternity with those who accepted the Jesus both as Savior and Lord and suffered for His sake--- including His apostles. Indeed people like Manson, Osama, Hitler and their likes will all laugh their heads off when they land into HEAVEN just by proclaiming Christ as their lord in their last breath without repenting one bit for their mammoth sins. This is WHAT easy believism teaches . and that's what is taught rampantly in most Churches nowadays. Matthew 27:3–10 says that Judas Iscariot returned the money to the priests and committed suicide by hanging himself.
This tells me he was regretful for what he had done. WHAT IF HE BELIEVED JUST BEFORE TAKING HIS LIFE? He will be sitting RIGHT now with Christ and the apostles in heaven according to the easy believism teaching. It's an appalling thought that Judas is sitting with Jesus and the apostles in heaven. But fortunately friends, EASY BELIEVISM is nothing but heresy. That's what it is, since it takes obedience (and baptism) out of the equation and NEGATES the teachings of the Lord.
Christ Himself explains under WHAT circumstances will He be with us eternally... SAVED
Matthew 28: 18-20
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to OBEY everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
1) make disciples = accepting Christ as savior ( absolutely needed for salvation ) and so are the following other things
2) baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit---- Baptism IS needed for salvation
3) OBEY everything I have commanded------- Obedience is as important as above two points

Jesus is making it implicitly clear all three things are needed------- FAITH, BAPTISM, AND OBEDIENCE for salvation. If they weren't needed/ important Why would he ask His disciples to do it in the great commission -----it was an order and not a request-- hence it's not optional.
Jesus Himself in Matthew 7: 21 clearly communicates to us - that many believers ( most unfortunately) will not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven
"Not everyone who says to Me,Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven"
Lets also examine similar words of Christ , this time in Matthew 12:48-50
"Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

In simple words, it means if we choose to NOT do the will of father God ( but only our will) we have NO RELATION with Jesus. We were just fake believers.

So by what is being taught in several Christian churches across the country-- "You believe and you're saved" doctrine. By that standard, is Judas sitting with the Lord in heaven, if he chose to believe, moments before taking his life?
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

  • you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones

Judas was destined to sit on a throne with the other 11, but chose of his own freewill to become a traitor.

Judas is the biblical example of those who believe for a while, then fall way.


JLB
 

JLB

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#35
JLB
I said:
"No one can explain how any recipient of eternal life can perish, yet believe that a recipient can, based on behavior."

It is quite perplexing that many don't believe that those who are given eternal life shall never perish, esp since Jesus said so.


Amen!


Does seem so.
Here are those who Jesus said will receive eternal life.

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

again


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

And again


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

  • and inherit eternal life.


Eternal life is inherited.



JLB
 
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#36
you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones
How many people were there when Jesus said this?
 
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#37
JLB
Here are those who Jesus said will receive eternal life.
  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7
Where did Jesus say this? This was written by Paul, to Roman believers. However, we know that Paul never believed that ANY human being would ever receive eternal life by continuing to do good. Because he also wrote Rom 3:9, 20, and 23. Mankind is sinful and unable to continue to do good. So Rom 2:7 is only how a perfect person would receive eternal life.

Which is why Jesus Christ HAD to go to the cross and pay for the sins of mankind, and by that payment, He purchased the gift of eternal life and freely gives eternal life to those who believe in Him, per John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:40,47, 10:28, 11:25-27, 20:31, 1 John 5:13.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
Those who read the whole chapter are very familiar with v.24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

[QUOTEThat is how one receives eternal life.[/QUOTE]
Yep. By believing in Jesus Christ.

Eternal life is inherited.
JLB
Not when it refers to salvation it isn't. Only when referring to eternal rewards. And the context always backs that up.
 

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#38
How many people were there when Jesus said this?
Let’s examine the context.


23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wifeor children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
Matthew 12:23-30


Pretty simple, actually.


Jesus was speaking to His twelve disciples.


If you believe Jesus was referring to 12 other disciples then please share the scriptures that teach this.



JLB
 

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#39
Where did Jesus say this? This was written by Paul, to Roman believers.
I see, so now you are teaching us that Romans 2:7 was not inspired by Jesus.

Who was Romans 2:7 inspired by if not Jesus?

since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you. 2 Corinthians 13:3


JLB
 
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#40
Jesus was speaking to His twelve disciples.
A direct answer to my direct question would have been better response as to what you believe , but let’s go with “Jesus was speaking to His twelve disciples” even though the Text doesn’t say His twelve disciples (you insert the twelve into the Text).

That’s 13 people there and 12 thrones, right?
 
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