Was Judas saved and now sitting with the Lord in heaven?

[JLB]

That’s not even an answer to my question, not to mention an assumptive statement. But you’re close to the Biblical answer by mentioning His words.

Why did the other disciples turn away from Him at this time? Here’s why:

Then many of His disciples, having heard, said, “This statement is hard . Who can hear it?” But Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples are grumbling about this, said to them, “Does this offend you?John 6:60-61 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:60-61&version=DLNT

His teaching (something He just said) was a hard statement, that many of “His disciples” as well as the other disciples found hard to hear and offensive.

Here’s what he had just taught that was hard to hear and offensive to learn. His teaching (which by the way, the word disciple means student) was so hard and offensive that it even made His disciples grumble much less the other disciples (students) turn away because these sayings:

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me forth, and I live because of the Father, indeed the one eating Me— that one also will live because of Me. This is the bread having come down from heaven; not as the manna the fathers ate and died. The one eating this bread will live forever”. He said these things in a synagogue while teaching in Capernaum.John 6:53-59 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:53-59&version=DLNT

“Eating His flesh and drinking His blood” was such an offensive teaching that it offended some disciples to the point they walked away. But “His disciples” continued to follow Him all the while finding it hard to understand and grumbling about it. None of them understood it at that time, much less had done this saying. Not until Judas was directed to leave the 12 prior to the elements being explained and given, did they actually understand this hard/offensive teaching in “plain words” and partake of Him. But He did tell His disciples why He’d made such a hard teaching:

And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you that no one is able to come to Me unless it has been granted to him from the Father”. From this time, many of His disciples went back, and were no longer walking with Him.John 6:65-66 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:65-66&version=DLNT

BTW, you didn’t answer

What is your point?

The 12 disciples continued to follow Jesus because the believed He was the Christ.

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69


JLB

 

[JLB]

Scripture doesn’t say Judas continued to follow Jesus ‘because’ .... of anything. You insert ‘because’ into the Text.

Even the passage you quoted contradicts your weak case:

Read it again and answer a simple question about it (since it’s obvious you’re going to continue to avoid answering my previous questions in the very posts you reply to with questions of your own).



Who does Peter say has the words of eternal life (which Jesus just through saying must be eaten by them in order to have eternal life), the 12 or Jesus?

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. The one eating My flesh and drinking My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.​

John 6:53-54 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:53-54&version=DLNT

Simple question I bet you will not answer:

Had Judas eaten The Son of Man’s flesh and drank His blood at this point, yes or no?

Had Judas eaten The Son of Man’s flesh and drank His blood at this point, yes or no?

No.

Have you?


Here is when Judas did, along with the others.


14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve[a] apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

17 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves; 18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. Luke 22:14-20


JLB

 

[chessman]

And He having entered into Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, appealing-to Him​

Matthew 8:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 8:5&version=DLNT
...

Now having heard, Jesus marveled, and said to the ones following, “Truly I say to you, with no one in Israel did I find so-great a faith!​

Matthew 8:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 8:10&version=DLNT

Were you aware that there will be some sons of the kingdom, who end up being cast out into outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth?


11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12

JLB

Were you aware that many of Abraham’s and Israel’s seeds (sons of the kingdom, like Judas or his cohorts) are not saved because they never ate Jesus’s body and blood, yet many Gentiles from east of their kingdom and west of their kingdom (such as a Gentile centurion) will be saved by their faith?

 

[JLB]

Were you aware that many of Abraham’s and Israel’s seeds (sons of the kingdom, like Judas or his cohorts) are not saved because they never ate Jesus’s body and blood, yet many Gentiles from east of their kingdom and west of their kingdom (such as a Gentile centurion) will be saved by their faith?

Jesus said the sons of the kingdom were His good seeds, and the tares were the sons of the wicked one.


37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:37-43


Good seeds = Jesus’ people

Tares = The devil’s people


Only sons of the kingdom can be saved.



JLB

 

[chessman]

What is your point?

I made several:
1. You didn’t even answer the question as to what He said that made them turn away.

2. His teaching was so hard and offensive that it even made His disciples grumble about it.

3. You didn’t answer yet another question; Did Jesus say to the 12; “But there are some of you who do not believe”?

Have you?

Yes. Because, unlike Judas, I have heard Him explain His original hard and offensive teaching in plain words, understood it, and partaken of His body and His blood. Something Judas didn’t have opportunity to do.

Here is when Judas did, along with the others.
14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve[a] apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

What does the [a] study note say in your Bible?

 

[chessman]

Jesus said the sons of the kingdom were His good seeds,

I know. In one context. And you copied it and pasted it into another context to make up your own parable.

 

[chessman]

Only sons of the kingdom can be saved.

Was the Roman centurion a son of Abraham and Isaac or was he from west of their kingdom (Roman)?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

If this is really true, then John 10:28 cannot be.

And, if this is true, then salvation really depends on one's own behavior (works), rather than depending wholly on the efficacious work of Christ on the cross.

And if what you mentioned then James 2:26 is errnoeously mentioned by James. And John the Baptist says in John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

 

[Honey]

Who are we to judge? Only God knows.

However, if we're going to share opinion, I think God is a merciful God. I think he showed mercy because Judas was not himself when he did what he did.
Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover. And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to put him to death, for they feared the people. Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them. And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. So he consented and sought an opportunity to betray him to them in the absence of a crowd. (Luke 22:1–6)

 

[JLB]

Was the Roman centurion a son of Abraham and Isaac or was he from west of their kingdom (Roman)?

If he was a man of faith, then yes.

Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:7

again

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:29


JLB

 

[JLB]

I know. In one context. And you copied it and pasted it into another context to make up your own parable.

Makes no sense.

Do sons of the kingdom belong to Jesus or the devil?

 

[JLB]

1. You didn’t even answer the question as to what He said that made them turn away.

I answered it, once I saw that you answered my question.

They turned away from Him because they didn’t like what He said.

 

[chessman]

If he was a man of faith, then yes.

Then your previous unbiblical claim is wrong.

You said: “Only sons of the kingdom can be saved.” Yet the centurion (who by the way was a man of great faith according to Jesus) was NOT a son of the kingdom but rather a Gentile from west of the kingdom.

Now having heard, Jesus marveled, and said to the ones following, “Truly I say to you, with no one in Israel did I find so-great a faith!​

Matthew 8:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 8:10&version=DLNT

That’s why he didn’t think Jesus would enter His house, he wasn’t a son of the kingdom of the Jews. He was Roman centurion.

And having responded, the centurion said, “Master, I am not fit that You should come-in under my roof. But only speak it in a word and my servant will be healed.​

Matthew 8:8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 8:8&version=DLNT

 

[JLB]

3. You didn’t answer yet another question; Did Jesus say to the 12; “But there are some of you who do not believe”?

Yes. Jesus said that.

64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
John 6:64

The scripture also says -

For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

We know who it was who betrayed him.
Judas Iscariot.

Who were the “they” who did not believe?


64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:64-69


Did the 12 disciples continue to follow Him?

Are you claiming that the disciples who turned away from Him were the group that Believed, while the 12 disciples who continued to follow Him were the group that did not believe?


JLB

 

[JLB]

You said: “Only sons of the kingdom can be saved.”

Only sons of the Kingdom can be saved.

If you believe tares can be saved then please share the scripture that teaches this claim of yours.

 

[JLB]

Then your previous unbiblical claim is wrong.

You said: “Only sons of the kingdom can be saved.” Yet the centurion (who by the way was a man of great faith according to Jesus) was NOT a son of the kingdom but rather a Gentile from west of the kingdom.

Now having heard, Jesus marveled, and said to the ones following, “Truly I say to you, with no one in Israel did I find so-great a faith!​

Matthew 8:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 8:10&version=DLNT

That’s why he didn’t think Jesus would enter His house, he wasn’t a son of the kingdom of the Jews. He was Roman centurion.

And having responded, the centurion said, “Master, I am not fit that You should come-in under my roof. But only speak it in a word and my servant will be healed.​

Matthew 8:8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 8:8&version=DLNT

You seem to think that the term “sons of the kingdom” is strictly confined to Jews.

 

[JLB]

The question that has been posed is whether Judas believed that Jesus was INNOCENT of the charge against Him, which put Him on the cross.

Well?

Well?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"If this is really true, then John 10:28 cannot be.

And, if this is true, then salvation really depends on one's own behavior (works), rather than depending wholly on the efficacious work of Christ on the cross."

And if what you mentioned then James 2:26 is errnoeously mentioned by James. And John the Baptist says in John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him".

First, I find it interesting that my points were totally ignored.

Second, how does James 2:26 refute any of my points? Please explain. I have no idea why it was brought up.

Third, the Greek word in Jn 3:36 for "not obey" is apeitho, and means "to disbelieve".

So, in addition to ignoring my points, neither of the verses cited help your view at all.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked:
"The question that has been posed is whether Judas believed that Jesus was INNOCENT of the charge against Him, which put Him on the cross.

Well?"

Well?

OK, I'll take that as unable or unwilling to answer. Which further weakens a very weak case.

 

[chessman]

Do sons of the kingdom belong to Jesus or the devil?

It depends on what kingdom is in context. Those in the Kingdom of God, belong to God.
Those in the kingdom of Satan belong to Satan.

Sons the kingdom of Israel are sons of Israel.
Sons of the Kingdom of God are sons of God.
Sons of the kingdom of Satan are sons of Satan.

Basic stuff here.

You seem to think that the term “sons of the kingdom” is strictly confined to Jews.

I let the Scripture and it’s context dictate what lineage is being described. I could easily copy/paste a phrase here into a phrase there and pretty much come up with all kinds of garbage. It’s so obviously a terrible idea to do such as that as to be laughable though.
Fruit salad!

They turned away from Him because they didn’t like what He said.

Bingo.
Even “His disciples” (by that I mean the 12) grumbled about what He just said. That’s why he asked them if they wanted to turn away also.

However, At one point, all the disciples who were following Him and listening to His teachings liked what He was doing and saying to them. Especially the miracles and never being hungry bread thingy. He was a rock star miracle master, until He claimed diety.

So they said to Him, “Master, give us this bread always”.​

John 6:34 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:34&version=DLNTThe

But when He told them how to obtain it (eat His body and blood), they turned away. All but the grumbling 12 remained.

Then the Jews were fighting with one another, saying, “How can this One give us His flesh to eat?”​

John 6:52 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:52&version=DLNT

So when they left, He was down to all but the 12. Then (here’s one of your claims defeaters) He said the following to His disciples (the 12):

But Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples are grumbling about this, said to them, “Does this offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man going up where He was formerly? The Spirit is the One giving-life. The flesh profits nothing. The words which I have spoken to you are spirit, and are life. But there are some of you who do not believe”.​

Yes, that’s right. Some of His 12 disciples did not believe at this time and one of them would betray the Christ. John even tells us the how-for Jesus knew this:

For Jesus knew from the beginning who the ones not believing were, and who the one who will hand Him over was.​

John 6:61-64 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 6:61-64&version=DLNT

It was not until the elements of His body and blood were given that they (the 11 as Judas was directed to leave and continue what he’d been doing (unbelief, stealing, betrayal and finally slander) were explained and then given to the 11.