Discussion in 'Christian / Church Histories' started by Allen Wynne, Aug 15, 2016.
It's like any sight from anyone. Some may be right and some maybe not. Pretty simple.
Watchman Nee got saved in 1920 at the age of seventeen.
He started writing his beliefs and never stopped.
The Salvation of the Soul are writings over a period of time, then put together for a book.
They were written in newspapers, or journals, or whatever the media of the day.
We now have a book with a beginning and an ending.
The book starts with defining the soul.
Have you ever given that much thought?
I know some of you have.
Some of you have debated the soul.
But the Bible says we have a soul.
1 Thessalonians 5:23;
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ".
This is where Watchman Nee begins to explain the soul.
From here he begins to explain the soul, and as he says, it's meaning is "self-denial".
Without reading further, I would have a problem with this statement.
Without getting into personalities, would anyone like to comment?
I tend to avoid long discussions about the construct of the spirit/soul/body because most of what is discussed is quite shallow. The discussion space is filled with all types of extremism as well.
I found Nee to be somewhat non-relevant and steered clear of western theological issues and sect debates/conflicts, because he did not have these conflicts/debates in his country like we have to sort through here (as much.) That's part of why I enjoy his writing, because he is not selling typical sectarian agenda's and slants. His teachings were against any forms of christian sectarianism. Which is also held by some sects here, oddly to note as such. IN a sect that disagrees with having sects. Think Plymouth Brethren or Quakers or the Vineyard as examples.
The Vineyard is where I got exposed more to Nee/Lee packet/house fellowship concepts for street function ministerial outreaches and daily living with general gatherings in larger functions. I still appreciate that general direction. But there were a lot of freewheelers therein that I didn't/don't appreciate (as much.) A lot of up and coming trial and error potential ministers trying to "hone their skills" with the mini-masses.
In Christ Jesus Brother Watchman Nee is a son and saint of God. He was a prisoner of Jesus, suffering afflictions, and spent the last twenty years of his life in prison. I read in:
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children (All who have believed on Christ), then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Some suffer for the Word more than others to the glory of God. I have no idea if I would have agreed with all Watchman Nee's doctrines, but his testimony is sufficient to me that I'll see him in my Savior one day.
He uttered these words: "Christ is the Son of God who died for the redemption of sinners and resurrected after three days. This is the greatest truth in the universe. I die because of my belief in Christ. Watchman Nee."
He believed that every person who believes in Jesus Christ will be forgiven by God, washed by His redeeming blood, justified by faith, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and saved by grace. Such a believer is a child of God and a member of the Body of Christ. He also believed that the destiny of every believer is to be an integral part of the church, which is the Body of Christ and the house of God.
Thank you Eugene, a great testimony of Watchman Nee.
I have heard people quote him enough times to make me wonder who he is.
He has said things that ring the Spirit of God and want me to hear more.
There is little I know of him.
Maybe I will learn a lot here in this thread.
Maybe it will be good.
As time passes, I will say the little I learn of him and what he says of an important subject and I hope many of you will continue to add to that daily.
I've found it to be very important to understand the make-up of man.
Some churches teach that man is a dichotomy: Body and soul.
Some teach that man is a trichotomy: Body, Soul and Spirit.
I believe it's clear that man has a a body, a soul and a spirit.
Understanding this helps us to understand how God lives in us.
To use the O.P.'s verse of 1 Thessalonians 5:23, we could view the trichotomy this way:
The body is physical and material. The bible calls it dust that will one day return to the earth. Ecclesiastes 12:7
It is neither righteous nor evil; it is amoral.
Our bodies are not perfect. They will become perfect, soma pneumatikon - spiritual bodies - 1 Corinthians 15:44.
It will experience weakness, sickness, fatigue. It is mortal, Hebrews 9:27
The soul is made up of the mind, the emotions, the will. The soul functions overlap each other. For instance, your mind function can be influenced by your emotion. The Greek word: Psuche means soul. The soul is amoral.
The capacity to think and reason. There is nothing righteous or evil in learning that two plus two is four, or that the sun is shining
The capacity to experience feeling. Emotion itself has nothing to do with morality. You are surprised when given a surprise birthday party. You are grieved when a pet dies. This is neither good nor bad.
The capacity to choose or to desire. The function of the will is amoral. You can choose to put ketchup on your potatoes, or to set your alarm clock for a certain time.
The Spirit: Is that part of us that connects to God. It is moral, perfectible and immortal.
In scripture Spirit and Heart are used interchangeably.
A difference between the soul and the spirit is apparent, Hebrews 4:12
James tells us that the body without a spirit is dead, James 2:26
When we die our spirit will return to God who gave it, Ecclesiastes 12:7
Jesus yielded His spirit, Mathew 27:50
And when not in alignment with God, it can be troubled, Genesis 41:8
It Is Moral:
It is the center of the seat of the basic moral affections of man. Genesis 8:21
The Lord searches all hearts and understands intent, 1 Chronicles 28:9
With the heart, man believes, Romans 10:10
The heart, or spirit, deals with moral issues and thus it is intertwined with the soul of man.
There are some emotions which will be affected by the spirit, or lack thereof. There are some choices which will have everything to do with morality and the spirit, or lack thereof, will affect them. The lack would be a spirit lacking God. The heart or spirit is the control room where either Christ is in command or sin is in command.
It Is Perfectible:
Mathew 5:48 Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. Jesus meant this as a goal for now, something to work toward. If Jesus lives in us, the moral intent will be will be based on the purity of Jesus living in us via the Holy Spirit. The intent is love. 1 John 4:8-17 God is love...
It Is Immortal:
This "God part" of man will live on forever.
It's important to understand that our spirit is intertwined with the soul and that many soul functions can become moral when the spirit of man is considered.
It's my understanding that:
The human body gives us the awareness of and interaction with the natural world.
The human soul gives us awareness and interaction of our self.
The human spirit gives us an awareness of the spirit world, of which God is primary. [For God is spirit]
The human soul consist's of mind, will and emotions.
The brain is the seat of intellect of the human body.
The mind is the seat of intellect of the human soul
The heart is the seat of intellect of the human spirit.
The soul is the defining expression of the individual, making up each person's unique identifying characteristic's.
The spirit and soul together make up the inner-man.
A person in heaven, without their body can be recognized and identified as such.
This is what I understand from the scriptures and is elementary to all that we are and the soul is... and is probably grossly ignorant of all that there is to know about this subject.
This is my opinion.
He learned much of what he knows from Jeannie Guyon.
What you have in blue is very important.
Even animals have souls. There are no two dogs exactly alike. They can think with their mind (body) and it's their soul that contains their unique identifying qualities of which you speak.
However, they do not have a spirit. They are not aware of God and have no attachment to Him.
Their response to any given situation is purely instinctual and not moral.
“Even the stork in the heavens
Knows her appointed times;
And the turtledove, the swift, and the swallow
Observe the time of their coming.
But My people do not know the judgment of the Lord.
On the other hand, who did these horses obey, in response to what they were commanded?
16 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 2 Kings 6:16-17
Yep. As soon as I found out I threw those books in the dump
I will be out of town today.
praying for you
Everything obeys God. Even the trees. Nothing happens unless it's in His sovereign will.
But are you saying animals go to heaven?
It seems this thread just... died out
Maybe OP had emergency that changed things permanently
The tripartite nature of man was the first step in THE SPIRITUAL MAN; I still have the one big volume of it, and LATENT POWER OF THE SOUL,
but I used to have a whole handful of Watchman Nee books, and I got kinda "spooked" about the Madame Guyon connection, and I got rid of them -- shouldn't have -- that was "contempt prior to investigation", SOME PEOPLE LOVED mADAME gUYON boos, and I never read any, neither "Witness Lee"
But in the yesteryears of used-to-be, I worked at MONTGOMERY-WARDS in Austin, and mentioned to this Pentecostal gal who was a co-worker that I was thinking of getting rid of Watchman Nee books... "I'll take 'em!" she said, so the next day in the breakroom, I gave her a stack of SPIRITUAL MAN (in 3 books), NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE, SIT, WALK, STAND, LOVE NOT THE WORLD and maybe something else
I read Sit Walk Stand.
If you're living it, you don't need the books anymore.
You have God by your side...
Hi Wondering !
Hi Allen !
It's not a question of "need" -- it's really a question of MEMORY -- AS TIME GOES BY, i SIMPLY can't remember A LOT OF WHAT i'VE READ
I recall that THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE was extremely popular when I was in college; but I can't remember what was in it...
A positive by-product of aging -- books and movies seen or read before -- they are brand new to me now
I feel there was a lot of good sound stuff in Watchman Nee
Sometimes I think this thread really
DOESN'T HAVE A CHINAMAN'S CHANCE
of really taking off -- yet I somehow don't want to give up on it...
It's only BIBLE READING people that see Man as Tripartite -- Spirit, Soul and Body
Rest of the world is satisfied with a duality
How much credit Watchman Nee should get for emphasizing tripartite nature, I don't know
But it is a biblical truth that he taught
Now it has come to my attention, on another board, that some Christians see man as a duality -- calling their position DICHOTOMIST, as opposed to TRICHOTOMIST, who sees man as spirit soul and body.
So maybe this thread CAN take off, if WATCHMAN NEE can be a discussion point for the TRICHOTOMIST view.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
To me, if soul and spirit are one and the same, as alleged by DICHOTOMISTs, then how can the word of God divide them asunder??
Separate names with a comma.