WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Chopper, Sep 13, 2014.

  1. eddif

    eddif Member

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    Now this is a super question. Given the conversations:
    Is it Jew and Gentile branches agreeing that bring about a positive answer? This seems to be a heavenly desire. I seek agreement.

    eddif
     
  2. Chopper

    Chopper Member

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    Hmm, I hadn't thought of Jew & Gentile agreement. My Son Skip and I have discussed this verse "That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done" many many times. I'm sure we are missing some Truth here. This has been practiced by many Christians and there have been no results. What's up with that?
     
  3. eddif

    eddif Member

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    My experience; not that experience is a total teacher:
    The Gentiles try and convert Jews into Gentiles
    The Jews try to convert Gentiles into Jews
    My way or the highway (my way is the high way)
    The teaching is so intellectual it has no spiritual aspect
    The teaching is so spiritual it ignores the physical

    I like the word metaphysical (both aspects)

    Romans 7:25
    The flesh (heart -watch those screams)
    And
    The mind (there is no temple in the New Jerusalem)

    I understand my thoughts are incomplete (imperfect). Mississippi rednecks have a few marbles they lost playing games in the briar patch.

    eddif
     
  4. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    Pretty much so. The One New Man is the Church........His body. Israel is still to have her victory when He will again build up the throne of David (Acts 15: 14-18)........After the fullness of the Gentiles have come in (to the body of Christ) (the Church) (Rom. 11: 25)
     
  5. RevSRE

    RevSRE Member

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    "adoption as sons" Roman law made it very difficult to adopt, but once done, it was permanent (cf. Gal_4:4-6). This metaphor supports the theological truth of the security of the believer . A natural son could be disinherited or even killed, but not an adopted one. This was one of Paul's favorite familial metaphors to describe salvation (cf. Rom_8:15; Rom_8:23). John and Peter used another familial metaphor, "born again"
    ( You can understand the Bible DR Bod Utlry)

    I have always taken adoption the mean Salvation as Dr Utley says familial metaphors to describe salvation, No more.
    Who are the tooters and teachers? What do you mean by maturity, is that before you are saved??
     
  6. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    The Galatians (after receiving Christ) were being embedded with Judiaizers, claiming they had to keep the law of Moses to keep their salvation. Paul explains what the purpose of the law was (it was a teacher or tooter) until the time appointed by the Father. He gives the example of the Law being our teacher or tooter, and us as being children beginning to learn. Even though we were assured of the promise, we were not yet master of what was given to us. But when the Christ came, there was no more need of teachers. For what was taught us as children of God was now present. So now we have matured from children to sons or the adoption of sons. Adoption here has nothing to do with the example of Roman law (though many people teach it, because they did not understand it in its context). And they used (Rom. 11: 13-21) making adoption as taking one from outside the family and making them a family member. That does not apply here, Study Galatians Chapters 1-3 and the difference between chapter 4-6.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  7. RevSRE

    RevSRE Member

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    Hi Chopper,
    I was always taught that if God had already said DO IT then we need not pray about it.
    And if God said GO NOT DO IT we do not need to pray.
    If we request what is for God's Glory and in the interest of doing His will, if we are in Christ to serve Him it is a good prayer.
    What do you think is there more?
     
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  8. Chopper

    Chopper Member

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    It's that word "anything" that has people asking questions. I answer it by....
    1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
    5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


    AND....
    1John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
     
  9. wondering

    wondering Member

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    Hi Chopper,
    If you find out what you're missing, let me know!

    I understand that we pray to communicate with God, to come to understand His will for us, to learn to accept what His will is. When Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, He prayed for God's will to be done and for it to be accepted by Him, which eventually He did, after prayer. Mathew 26:39

    But Jesus did say, Ask and you will receive, Luke 11:9
    He said to be persistent, Luke 18:1-5

    And it's Luke saying this, the pragmatic one - not John the spiritual one. So are we to understand this in a practical way? But how can this be ? Can we change God's mind? Can He perform miracles every moment of the day so as to answer prayer? And yet miracles do happen. Why to some and not others?

    Too many questions with not enough answers. But the big question is. Why did Jesus give this so much importance - He must have meant it. Once a girl who wasn't getting an important prayer answered asked me why. I told her we have to pray for God's will. She said that's a cop-out. God always answers prayer. It could be Yes, No or Not Now.

    But, yes, it's a mystery to me too. I've just learned to have faith. Romans 8:28

    Wondering
     
  10. RevSRE

    RevSRE Member

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    Here is a question, are we still talking about a brother sin against us v15 1st you go 2nd 2 or 3 go then to the church. THAT DECISION is binding. V19 starts "AGAIN" I tell you that if two of you on earth agree together with respect to any matter whatever they ask it shall be done.
    DO you think this is a new subject or are we still on agreeing in relation to making things right with a brother.
    if so the "Anything" ( περι CONCERNING παντος ANY πραγματος MATTER ου εαν WHATEVER) Is the matter we settled with a brother.
    MAYBE!
     
  11. eddif

    eddif Member

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    See if post 1405 is saying the same thing.

    eddif
     
  12. wondering

    wondering Member

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    RevSRE
    There's differing opinion on your above and I certainly have no final comment. Sometimes I think it refers to the decision of the church (2 or 3 decide and gather) and sometimes I think Jesus is changing the subject. It might be the first. Interesting how He says "There I AM with you". He's always with us. Am - now, not I WILL be with you. He is always with us - so maybe He means if 2 or 3 decide something, He is with them.

    In any case, it doesn't invalidate Choppers question regarding prayer.
    A very important question. The Faith Movement says that if I have enough faith, any request will be fulfilled. Do I then not have enough faith if my prayer is not answered? Does God's action depend on me and not on Him?

    Rhetorical questions - no response necessary!

    Wondering
     
  13. Chopper

    Chopper Member

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    My Brother, the great thing about this study that I started years ago has a wonderful feature and that is, every study past and present are open for instruction....You say, "that decision is binding" and you're right. I have been the Pastor of three Baptist Church's which all three had difficult decisions for the Church Body to agree upon. When we reached a decision, it was the law!!

    After I left the "full time" ministry to care for my dying Wife. I started "House Churches" where ever I went. I must say that other than one which mushroomed to about 65 people, they were always small, about 12-15 people. Those small House Churches were such a blessing. In each one, a few got saved and it was wonderful how the others came to life by seeing the excitement in a new believer. Those sins against each other just didn't happen in those small gatherings, IT WAS CHURCH!!

    Bless you my Brother Stephen.
     
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  14. eddif

    eddif Member

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    Revelation 3:20
    Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    For an individual man to know what is going on on a heavenly level, it sure helps to be hanging around with a heavenly representative and sharing sustenance.

    eddif
     
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  15. eddif

    eddif Member

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    I left out the repentance that comes before Revelation 3:20 and the issuance of power / position that follows the verse. You can read the passage.

    The natural pacemaker of our heart looks like a crucified man (think political cartoon). The naturally stony heart is transformed by his entrance. The canarnal mind is changed to the mind of Christ. Romans 7:25

    The things of the Godhead are seen by looking at creation. Romans 1:19-20

    We have a dual existence. We bind and loose inside ourselves (kind of wretched in the flesh area).

    eddif
     
  16. Jethro Bodine

    Jethro Bodine Member

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    :clap
     
  17. Jethro Bodine

    Jethro Bodine Member

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    That sounds like a very good answer.

    Whenever this passage has come up for discussion I've always pointed out that the context is forgiveness and reconciliation.....but then I'm forced to turn right around and acknowledge that Christ did say "whatever" (vs.18), and "anything" (vs. 19). But surely, as you point out, "whatever" is in the context of what it is that has been bound or loosed in regard to forgiving, or not forgiving someone.
     
  18. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    Brother in Christ,, Here is some more information to ponder on. "Born Again" is not a metaphor. It is the word that The Lord used to describe regeneration . Regeneration littererly means "new birth" (John 3: 5-12). As far as the Roman law of adoption can be explained in it's own legal terms, the legal terms do not apply here. It is also not true that an adopted son had more legal rights then a blood heir. The adopted son could be disinherited and even have the adoption voided (it was called emancipation). Also Roman adoption was of mature males, thus, you were a mature son when ado
    To often, we study the Scriptures with the mind of the flesh, (even us who are born again). The reason is because that the born again believer has two natures and they are always in conflict (Gal. 5: 17). But we are not under law, because we have received the Spirit of Christ, we are under Grace. Grace is the nature of the NEW MAN (born again believer). The old man uses grace as something received to be his personal possession to keep, and not to be given away. He accepts forgiveness, but, he himself forgives not. (Matt. 18: 23-35) For the born again believer, their is now no condemnation who walk after the Spirit. *Note* (this is the result of being born again) walking after the Spirit. Of course there is a conflict (Rom. 7: 14-25) for it is only after a man is saved that the Law begins to condemn him. Why? Because, before I was saved I was perfect in the law (Philip. 3: 4-6) (in my own mind (Rom. 7:5)) For the law that Paul thought he was blameless under, did not come to life until he received the Holy Spirit. (Rom. 7: 7-14) It was then that sin became utterly sinful (Rom. 7:7-11). For because we are under grace, it is also by the Holy Spirit of Grace that we are not condemned by the weakness of the flesh, because we are drawn to the Spirit to follow it. We do not seek the Spirit, for we already have it (to those who were born again), but we should continually asked to be filled with the Spirit, for Spiritual strength and rest in the power of the Spirit. So those who follow after the Spirit are not looking for the Spirit, but are following after the new nature that has already been given them.

    That is the premise that everything we ask for (that is the born again believer) will be granted for we have the mind of Christ. But still having the old nature we ask for things we are not sure of (that we leave up to God's will) (Mark 14: 34-36)
     
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  19. brother Paul

    brother Paul Member

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    The Orthodox believe this passage was only meant for the Apostles for the purpose of establishing the church....
     
  20. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

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    It's that word "anything" that has people asking questions. I answer it by....
    1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
    5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

    AND....
    1John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

    To often, we study the Scriptures with the mind of the flesh, (even us who are born again). The reason is because that the born again believer has two natures and they are always in conflict (Gal. 5: 17). But we are not under law, because we have received the Spirit of Christ, we are under Grace. Grace is the nature of the NEW MAN (born again believer). The old man uses grace as something received to be his personal possession to keep, and not to be given away. He accepts forgiveness, but, he himself forgives not. (Matt. 18: 23-35) For the born again believer, their is now no condemnation who walk after the Spirit. *Note* (this is the result of being born again) walking after the Spirit. Of course there is a conflict (Rom. 7: 14-25) for it is only after a man is saved that the Law begins to condemn him. Why? Because, before I was saved I was perfect in the law (Philip. 3: 4-6) (in my own mind (Rom. 7:5)) For the law that Paul thought he was blameless under, did not come to life until he received the Holy Spirit. (Rom. 7: 7-14) It was then that sin became utterly sinful (Rom. 7:7-11). For because we are under grace, it is also by the Holy Spirit of Grace that we are not condemned by the weakness of the flesh, because we are drawn to the Spirit to follow it. We do not seek the Spirit, for we already have it (to those who were born again), but we should continually asked to be filled with the Spirit, for Spiritual strength and rest in the power of the Spirit. So those who follow after the Spirit are not looking for the Spirit, but are following after the new nature that has already been given them.

    That is the premise that everything we ask for (that is the born again believer) will be granted for we have the mind of Christ. But still having the old nature we ask for things we are not sure of (that we leave up to God's will) (Mark 14: 34-36)
     

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