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Bible Study WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.

reba

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The tabernacle of David is not a throne .. it is a tent ... the Presence of God was in the midst of his People
 
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Douglas Summers
To often, we study the Scriptures with the mind of the flesh, (even us who are born again)


Brother in Christ,, Here is some more information to ponder on.

"Born Again" is not a metaphor.

WHAT is a Metaphor?

noun

1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance.

2. Like REGENERATION as being BORN AGAIN or ADOPTED.


It is the word that The Lord used to describe regeneration . Regeneration littererly means "new birth" (John 3: 5-12).

Regeneration means what Mat.4:17 says “Change the way you have been thinking and come near for the royal authority of God.” A change from doing things MY WAY to Obeying GOD. Born Again or Adoption are a metaphor for this thought.


As far as the Roman law of adoption can be. explained in it's own legal terms, the legal terms do not apply here. It is not about an exact LEGAL term IT IA A METAPHOR!!
It is also not true that an adopted son had more legal rights then a blood heir. The adopted son could be disinherited and even have the adoption voided (it was called emancipation). Also Roman adoption was of mature males, thus, you were a mature son when ado

To often, we study the Scriptures with the mind of the flesh, (even us who are born again). The reason is because that the born again believer has two natures and they are always in conflict (Gal. 5: 17).

Or we have our mind made up by existing Theology or what we have been taught. The Christian world needs to get out of the “IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY BOX “and try understanding the BIBLE, History, Culture and truth say.

But we are not under law, because we have received the Spirit of Christ, we are under Grace. Grace is the nature of then NEW MAN (born again believer). The old man uses grace as something received to be his personal possession to keep, and not to be given away. He accepts forgiveness, but, he himself forgives not. (Matt. 18: 23-35)

We are not under the law because Christ fulfilled it. IN Christ we are New Creatures, old things are gone. We are IN CHRIST new creatures. Children of God, A Royal Priesthood. If you only look back and see the old sin and a nature of sin that has changes In Christ, you will always miss the truth that in CHRIST we are special, blessed, the children of GOD. Please look beyond old theology and find the glory of CHRISTIAN VICTORY. I get so tired of people looking for how sinful they can repent of. In Christ, a new creature, living for GOD there is there for now no condemnation, we are the family of GOD.

For the born again believer, their is now no condemnation who walk after the Spirit. *Note* (this is the result of being born again) walking after the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Not walking after the spirit, LIVING IN Christ.

Of course there is a conflict (Rom. 7: 14-25) for it is only after a man is saved that the Law begins to condemn him.


Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, worked in me all manner of covetousness. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul is saying BEFORE I KNEW THE LAW I did not know sin that is I was alive apart from the law. But when the commandments (OF THE LAW) came they taught me what sin was.
Paul was a trained Pharisee. The full meaning of that is another study in itself. They taught an old tradition, there is a way for man by his own ability to come to God. Paul is saying there is nothing I do or understand that will BY MY ABILITY take me to GOD, not works, not the law, not my will, or any other power EXCEPT GOD’S GRACE.


Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Why? Because, before I was saved I was perfect in the law (Philip. 3: 4-6) (in my own mind (Rom. 7:5)) For the law that Paul thought he was blameless under, did not come to life until he received the Holy Spirit. (Rom. 7: 7-14) It was then that sin became utterly sinful (Rom. 7:7-11). For because we are under grace, it is also by the Holy Spirit of Grace that we are not condemned by the weakness of the flesh, because we are drawn to the Spirit to follow it.


We do not seek the Spirit, for we already have it (to those who were born again), but we should continually asked to be filled with the Spirit, for Spiritual strength and rest in the power of the Spirit. So those who follow after the Spirit are not looking for the Spirit, but are following after the new nature that has already been given them.
When we are saved we are INDWELLED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, it is not about more filling, it is about yielding ME To HIM!

I know we do not agree, but, Please try to get out of the box of what has been taught, and know what the Bible says.
 
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The tabernacle of David is not a throne .. it is a tent ... the Presence of God was in the midst of his People
Keep on posting this. I may even understand it after a few more times.

A tent flutters in the wind. Even the Law had exceptions for the amount of sacrifice for the poor. There were exceptions for death of family members.

Written in stone or written in heart of flesh? Where the spirit is there is liberty.
II Corinthians 3:17

Not liberty to sin, but a liver is not a kidney. We are the body of Christ.

Types, shadows, parables, hidden things are seen as the tent flutters in the breeze of the Spirit. The tent deforms in the wind, but there is support that regains shape. David bent, but regained shape and form.

The shadow of death is not the ultimate death. Shucks I better stop. I may have taken too much Liberty with your tent.

eddif
 
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The Orthodox believe this passage was only meant for the Apostles for the purpose of establishing the church....
I hadn't thought of that. It's a real possibility. That's a line that's hard to distinguish, just for the Apostles or for us.
 
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I hadn't thought of that. It's a real possibility. That's a line that's hard to distinguish, just for the Apostles or for us.
Ephesians 2:19 KJV
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

eddif
 
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The tabernacle of David is not a throne .. it is a tent ... the Presence of God was in the midst of his People
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (The word "Dwelt" is skeenoo...to taberbacle or pitch tent)

"But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation" (Heb 9:11 ).
 
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Douglas Summers
To often, we study the Scriptures with the mind of the flesh, (even us who are born again)


RevSre said


"adoption as sons" Roman law made it very difficult to adopt, but once done, it was permanent (cf. Gal_4:4-6). This metaphor supports the theological truth of the security of the believer . A natural son could be disinherited or even killed, but not an adopted one. This was one of Paul's favorite familial metaphors to describe salvation (cf. Rom_8:15; Rom_8:23). John and Peter used another familial metaphor, "born again"


I have always taken adoption the mean Salvation as Dr Utley says familial metaphors to describe salvation, No more.
Who are the tooters and teachers? What do you mean by maturity, is that before you are saved??


Click to expand...

.

"Born Again" is not a metaphor.

WHAT is a Metaphor?



1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance.
Correct.

2. Like REGENERATION as being BORN AGAIN or ADOPTED.
Not correct.


It is the word that The Lord used to describe regeneration . Regeneration littererly means "new birth" (John 3: 5-12).

Regeneration means what Mat.4:17 says “Change the way you have been thinking and come near for the royal authority of God.” A change from doing things MY WAY to Obeying GOD. Born Again or Adoption are a metaphor for this thought.
I could not change the way I thought nor could I obey God, and neither did I want to until I was born of the Spirit. And once I received His Spirit, that was when the Law condemned me. I really did not think I was that bad. What I thought I could live by in the flesh, I found out I had been fooled by the mind of the Adamic nature, for the law had no dominion over me in my mind. But the Law did not condemn me until I was saved, showing me that sin was utterly sinful. I became aware of the sinfulness of sin, and also the Grace of God the day I was born again (not a metaphor)


As far as the Roman law of adoption can be. explained in it's own legal terms, the legal terms do not apply here.


It is also not true that an adopted son had more legal rights then a blood heir. The adopted son could be disinherited and even have the adoption voided (it was called emancipation). Also Roman adoption was of mature males, thus, you were a mature son when ado


To often, we study the Scriptures with the mind of the flesh, (even us who are born again). The reason is because that the born again believer has two natures and they are always in conflict (Gal. 5: 17).

Or we have our mind made up by existing Theology or what we have been taught. The Christian world needs to get out of the “IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY BOX “and try understanding the BIBLE, History, Culture and truth say. (exactly, Truth)

But we are not under law, because we have received the Spirit of Christ, we are under Grace. Grace is the nature of then NEW MAN (born again believer). The old man uses grace as something received to be his personal possession to keep, and not to be given away. He accepts forgiveness, but, he himself forgives not. (Matt. 18: 23-35)

We are not under the law because Christ fulfilled it. (Christ lived under the Law perfectly, so that He would be a spotless Lamb to redeem us from the penalty of the law (death) in which we incurred because of our disobedience) IN Christ we are New Creatures, old things are gone. We are IN CHRIST new creatures. Children of God, A Royal Priesthood. If you only look back and see the old sin and a nature of sin that has changes In Christ, you will always miss the truth that in CHRIST we are special, blessed, the children of GOD. Please look beyond old theology and find the glory of CHRISTIAN VICTORY. I get so tired of people looking for how sinful they can repent of. In Christ, a new creature, living for GOD there is there for now no condemnation, we are the family of GOD. If a man can not see how sinful man is, then he can not know grace. We are not special. God called us not by any attribute nor is he a respecter of persons, but He saved those who feared Him and His wrath to come. You see, the beginning of knowledge is fear of the Lord, and the knowledge brought us closer to God, and this is what knowledge we gained. "that God is love" and there is no fear in perfect love. The epistle of 1 John. Yes, a Royal priesthood unto God with Christ as the head. I have no theology? I have the word of God and His Spirit. The same Spirit that ascended upon the believers on the Day of Pentecost. I follow after no denomination. But if I were to pick one, I would say that the Southern Baptist teach closer to Scripture than most.
For the born again believer, their is now no condemnation who walk after the Spirit. *Note* (this is the result of being born again) walking after the Spirit.


Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who WALK not after the flesh,, but after the Spirit (Christ in us) It is not I but Christ in me. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (in me). In Christ and Christ in me have the same meaning.
Not walking after the spirit, LIVING IN Christ.

Of course there is a conflict (Rom. 7: 14-25) for it is only after a man is saved that the Law begins to condemn him.


Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, worked in me all manner of covetousness. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul is saying BEFORE I KNEW THE LAW I did not know sin that is I was alive apart from the law. But when the commandments (OF THE LAW) came they taught me what sin was. No, Paul was like the rest of us. He knew what sin was by the commandments, but the sin never condemned him. For as a Pharisee, Saul was trained to believe that if he obeyed the law he was BLAMELESS as a Jew.(Philip. 3:4-6). for the Law that he thought brought life as a devout Jew (Pharisee), finds that the law had fooled him . For the law only came to light to Saul on the road To Damascus . That is when Paul realized that all the work he thought that made him blameless from the law had fooled him, for the Law was never a means to Salvation, but a law of condemnation that would lead us to Christ. This is Spiritual teaching, not carnal.
Paul was a trained Pharisee. The full meaning of that is another study in itself. They taught an old tradition, there is a way for man by his own ability to come to God. Paul is saying there is nothing I do or understand that will BY MY ABILITY take me to GOD, not works, not the law, not my will, or any other power EXCEPT GOD’S GRACE.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



Why? Because, before I was saved I was perfect in the law (Philip. 3: 4-6) (in my own mind (Rom. 7:5)) For the law that Paul thought he was blameless under, did not come to life until he received the Holy Spirit. (Rom. 7: 7-14) It was then that sin became utterly sinful (Rom. 7:7-11). For because we are under grace, it is also by the Holy Spirit of Grace that we are not condemned by the weakness of the flesh, because we are drawn to the Spirit to follow it.


We do not seek the Spirit, for we already have it (to those who were born again), but we should continually asked to be filled with the Spirit, for Spiritual strength and rest in the power of the Spirit. So those who follow after the Spirit are not looking for the Spirit, but are following after the new nature that has already been given them.
When we are saved we are INDWELLED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, it is not about more filling, it is about yielding ME To HIM!

I know we do not agree, but, Please try to get out of the box of what has been taught, and know what the Bible says.
I'am not a C of C, nor any other denomination. I have no box to get out of. I'm no better than you or anyone else here or anywhere else. I claim no superior knowledge or learned in theology.................nor do I have Christ, HE has me and has me eternally, His Spirit is His guarantee.
To Him that is merciful and gracious, more than I can understand,
Douglas Summers
 
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reba

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Keep on posting this. I may even understand it after a few more times.

The shadow of death is not the ultimate death. Shucks I better stop. I may have taken too much Liberty with your tent.
eddif
not my tent it is David's tabernacle...
Notice how different the tent is from the Holy of Holies.. In the Holy of Holies the presences of the Lord was hidden lots of rituals had to be observed to inter, and then on fear of death... David's tabernacle was a covering.. the Ark (the presence of God) was not hidden from the people... it was in their midst.

Mat_18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

IMO. Just as God gave into the people to give them a king (Saul) He gave into them to let them give Him a temple...

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
 
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Keep on posting this. I may even understand it after a few more times.

A tent flutters in the wind. Even the Law had exceptions for the amount of sacrifice for the poor. There were exceptions for death of family members.

Written in stone or written in heart of flesh? Where the spirit is there is liberty.
II Corinthians 3:17

Not liberty to sin, but a liver is not a kidney. We are the body of Christ.

Types, shadows, parables, hidden things are seen as the tent flutters in the breeze of the Spirit. The tent deforms in the wind, but there is support that regains shape. David bent, but regained shape and form.

The shadow of death is not the ultimate death. Shucks I better stop. I may have taken too much Liberty with your tent.

eddif
David was told by God that He would not build Him a Temple, After all, God said he did not need a house all the time He was with Israel where He would move around among the people, He needed no house (Temple). The tabernacle was a specific tent that covered the Ark of the Covenant. This is where God met with His people (prophets and priest) It, s description and priestly assumptions is in Exodus Chapters 25 thru 33. It is the same tabernacle instructed by God to Moses. It was movable so that it could travel with the Israelite. God told David it would be left up to David's Son to build a House for God..
 

reba

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="Douglas Summers, post: 1166121, member: 7954

David was told by God that He would not build Him a Temple, After all, God said he did not need a house all the time He was with Israel where He would move around among the people, He needed no house (Temple). The tabernacle was a specific tent that covered the Ark of the Covenant. This is where God met with His people (prophets and priest) It, s description and priestly assumptions is in Exodus Chapters 25 thru 33. It is the same tabernacle instructed by God to Moses. It was movable so that it could travel with the Israelite. God told David it would be left up to David's Son to build a House for God..
 
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Opps i think i am off topic...
Not really. We are stil working on How to get er done. It is not totally us, but Christ working in us. I really value your understanding on tent / throne concepts. You may have expressed the information in other threads and I missed it (zoomed over my head). Thus the following quote also posted by you.
not my tent it is David's tabernacle...
Notice how different the tent is from the Holy of Holies.. In the Holy of Holies the presences of the Lord was hidden lots of rituals had to be observed to inter, and then on fear of death... David's tabernacle was a covering.. the Ark (the presence of God) was not hidden from the people... it was in their midst.

Mat_18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

IMO. Just as God gave into the people to give them a king (Saul) He gave into them to let them give Him a temple...

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Now I will probably make another post.

eddif
 
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20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

jjust a benefit of fellowship or is there more to it?
 
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Deuteronomy 11:18
Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

You do it under law:

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

God will do it through Messiah / Jesus.

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The Hebrews passage was a repeat of a previous change at Pentecost.

We have changes from wilderness; to promised land; to New Jerusalem; to ultimate eternity. These changes are seen from: burning bush; tabernacle in wilderness; temple; body of Jesus as Godhead bodily, us as temple of Holy Spirit.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

There is a difference in among and in.
Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

We see so much of this through a glass darkly (welding glasses). Paul may have known about bright.

We move through hidden information: tabernacle, veils, seeds planted in parables; oxen representative of preachers, tent, etc.

Jesus is always the reality that casts shadows.
Asking anything in his name and receiving is based on a lot of these foundations we are posting.

eddif
 
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20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

jjust a benefit of fellowship or is there more to it?
Although I am comfortable discussing it with you, I think another thread would be better.

Admin knows best.

The subject at hand relates, but wisdom is needed.

I Corinthians 14:25
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

eddif
 
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February 17th 2016 Matthew 18:20 Lets talk About "In My Name".


Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Almost everyone ends a prayer in Jesus' Name. Why?

Is there an advantage?

Where did that come from?

Lets talk about the importance of using Jesus' Name. It had great power in the first century Churches. I must admit, now it seems like just a formal way of ending a prayer. What is necessary to bring back the power in the Name of Jesus.
 
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Let me add this to be considered as the Hebrews understood the phrase....

THE HEBREW WORD SHEM http://beth-abraham.org/shem.html

by Glen Penton

When I teach introductory Hebrew, the first word I typically teach is the common noun SHEM. It's pronounced exactly like our English word "shame", means almost exactly the opposite, and seems to me to be a key to some of the discussions about God's Name in Messianic circles today.

  1. The Old King James Bible almost always translates SHEM as 'name'. It very often means that, as in, "The SHEM of Naomi's husband was Abimelech." So it's easy to see why lazy translators will translate SHEM as 'name', even where that translation makes no sense at all.
  2. Like our English word 'name', SHEM has several meanings besides the most common and literal one. SHEM sometimes means 'fame', as in "Noah had three sons whom he named SHEM, Good-looks, and Warm-heart." Thirty-something years after David's parents named him, the Lord said, "I'll give you SHEM, like the greatest kings of history." God gave David a new SHEM, but not a new name. In a contrary circumstance, to damage someone's SHEM is to defame them.
  3. A more common meaning of SHEM in the Bible is 'the essential reality of who someone is', as in Proverbs 21:24. "A proud and haughty person's SHEM is scorner." In Exodus 34:14 we read,
"The Lord, Whose name (SHEM) is jealous, is a jealous God."

In a more famous example, the prophet Isaiah says Messiah's name (SHEM) shall be called

  • "Wonderful,
  • Counselor,
  • the Mighty God,
  • the Eternal Father,
  • the Ruler of Shalom." (Isaiah 9:5-6)
He certainly is all of those, and they are some of His royal titles, but none of them are His Name. The plural form of SHEM is SHMOT. The Bible has many SHMOT for God which are royal titles and revelations of the reality of Who He is, but not names as such.

In Biblical Hebrew, to trust in Someone's SHEM means to trust Him because of Who He is. To bless Someone's SHEM means to bless Him because of Who He is.
 
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Abram had a name, but God changed his name to agree with who he was to become. It also was going to take a supernatural work in Abram to move him to his new name / position.

If we move into understanding all that Abraham became, we acknowledge the fullness of his new name.

John 1:14 KJV
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

All the words of the bible became Jesus. Jesus manifested all the previous names of God in the flesh.

The supernatural aspect is just about beyond comprehension. In Christ / Jesus has the descriptive and accepted combined.

This discussion should be interesting.

eddif
 

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