What Gifts from God are revocable?

[GodsGrace]

Salvation is one of the Gifts from God that is not revocable.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (James 1:17)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Can anyone name a gift from God, that He has given to an individual that is revocable?.

Did anyone mention immortality?
Did anyone mention infused knowledge?
Did anyone mention the absence of concupiscense?

 

[FreeGrace]

Oh come on Brother. Look at the OT...all the way through God dealt with them...if this, then that. Meaning if they obeyed then they would be blessed etc., and if they didn't then they'd get stomped on. There's so many examples that it's...absurd to think that it's everything irrevocable.

Which of these things being referred to were described as gifts?

I could post a couple dozen examples if you like...

If Scripture describes these couple dozen examples as gifts, then sure. Please do.

But it's just not proper to ascribe everything given as a gift.

Let me provide an example for consideration.

If someone came up to you and GAVE you a black eye, would you thank them for that gift?

Point made.

Just because something can be shown to be given to someone doesn't make it a gift. By any stretch.

 

[Edward]

Which of these things being referred to were described as gifts?


If Scripture describes these couple dozen examples as gifts, then sure. Please do.

But it's just not proper to ascribe everything given as a gift.

Let me provide an example for consideration.

If someone came up to you and GAVE you a black eye, would you thank them for that gift?

Point made.

Just because something can be shown to be given to someone doesn't make it a gift. By any stretch.

So life is not a gift? Boy oh boy...

[edited] This thread is not OSAS vs OSNAS.

 

[Edward]

Whoops, sorry WIP. I didn't see your post yet. I'll be good.

It's a valid question to FreeGrace though.

 

[for_his_glory]

What could man do to have Gods free gift of grace and eternal life removed from them once that have received it is that of speaking evil from their heart against the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31. There have been many that started out in the Spirit of God, but for certain unforeseen circumstances in their life have denounced Christ no longer believing in Gods Holy Spirit as they now speak evil of Gods Spirit even though they once had great faith. Matthew 12:31 stands alone and gives us proof that God's gifts can be revoked for this reason only.

 

[FreeGrace]

What could man do to have Gods free gift of grace and eternal life removed from them once that have received it is that of speaking evil from their heart against the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31. There have been many that started out in the Spirit of God, but for certain unforeseen circumstances in their life have denounced Christ no longer believing in Gods Holy Spirit as they now speak evil of Gods Spirit even though they once had great faith. Matthew 12:31 stands alone and gives us proof that God's gifts can be revoked for this reason only.

The context in this verse refers to Jews who actually witnessed miracles of Jesus and attributed them to the devil. Unless one has seen miracles of Jesus while on earth and then claims the miracles came from the devil, this sin cannot be committed.

Further, in the age of the Jews, which is when Jesus lived on earth, the Holy Spirit hadn't been given yet. That occurred during Pentecost, after Jesus had risen from the dead.

So the context doesn't say anything about the gift of the Holy Spirit being revoked anyway.

 

[JLB]

What could man do to have Gods free gift of grace and eternal life removed from them once that have received it is that of speaking evil from their heart against the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31. There have been many that started out in the Spirit of God, but for certain unforeseen circumstances in their life have denounced Christ no longer believing in Gods Holy Spirit as they now speak evil of Gods Spirit even though they once had great faith. Matthew 12:31 stands alone and gives us proof that God's gifts can be revoked for this reason only.

 

[JLB]

The context in this verse refers to Jews who actually witnessed miracles of Jesus and attributed them to the devil. Unless one has seen miracles of Jesus while on earth and then claims the miracles came from the devil, this sin cannot be committed.

Further, in the age of the Jews, which is when Jesus lived on earth, the Holy Spirit hadn't been given yet. That occurred during Pentecost, after Jesus had risen from the dead.

So the context doesn't say anything about the gift of the Holy Spirit being revoked anyway.

The gift of forgiveness can certainly be removed from the person who is forgiven themselves, but refuses to forgive others.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:28-35

 

[JLB]

The context in this verse refers to Jews who actually witnessed miracles of Jesus and attributed them to the devil. Unless one has seen miracles of Jesus while on earth and then claims the miracles came from the devil, this sin cannot be committed.

Further, in the age of the Jews, which is when Jesus lived on earth, the Holy Spirit hadn't been given yet. That occurred during Pentecost, after Jesus had risen from the dead.

So the context doesn't say anything about the gift of the Holy Spirit being revoked anyway.

Because of unbelief we can have the free gift of covenant relationship with Christ ( being grated into the Olive Tree) taken away.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23


JLB

 

[atpollard]

I asked this:
"Please support your notion that the Garden was a gift to Adam."
No, not really. I read every verse quoted and didn't find any reference to "gift". What I did find was that God gave Adam the garden, etc.
So, it seems you've concluded that whatever is given is properly a gift then. Is that correct?
Well, consider when someone gives another a hard time. Or gives someone their cold or flu. Or worse.
Jut because the Bible speaks of God giving things, doesn't demand that those things are gifts.
Let's just stick with what Scripture describes as a gift, such as
1. spiritual gifts - Rom 1:11
2. justificaiton - Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17
3. eternal life - Rom 6:23
4. indwelling Holy Spirit - Acts 11:15-17
And, let's not forget that the gifts of God are irrevocable - Rom 11:29

OK, your crazy semantic rules demanding it include the word 'gift' since I have no intention of arguing about whether something that God gives someone is a gift ...

Psalm 127:3 NASB. Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward.

• Children are a GIFT of the LORD (scripture specifically says so).

Job 1:2 NASB. Seven sons and three daughters were born to him.

• The LORD gives a GIFT to Job.

Job 1:18-19 NASB. 18 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19 and behold, a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people and they died, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”

• The LORD took back the GIFT from Job.

Job 42:13 NASB. He had seven sons and three daughters.

• The LORD can even return a GIFT that He gave, and took back.

Now I have followed your arbitrary rules and still made the exact same point, yet again.
Why doesn't it count this time?

 

[FreeGrace]

The gift of forgiveness can certainly be removed from the person who is forgiven themselves, but refuses to forgive others.

Please direct me to the verse that describes forgiveness as a gift. Then I can discuss your comment.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:28-35

This passage doesn't mention "gift" at all.

 

[FreeGrace]

Because of unbelief we can have the free gift of covenant relationship with Christ ( being grated into the Olive Tree) taken away.

Please direct me to the verse that describes covenant relationship with Christ as a gift or a free gift.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23
JLB

This passage doesn't mention "gift" at all.

 

[JLB]

Please direct me to the verse that describes covenant relationship with Christ as a gift or a free gift.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Please direct me to the verse that describes forgiveness as a gift. Then I can discuss your comment.


This passage doesn't mention "gift" at all.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:28-35


Can you earn forgiveness of your sins by working, or is the forgiveness of our sins God's gift to us, because of Jesus Christ and the price He paid to free us from our sins?

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"Please support your notion that the Garden was a gift to Adam."
No, not really. I read every verse quoted and didn't find any reference to "gift". What I did find was that God gave Adam the garden, etc.
So, it seems you've concluded that whatever is given is properly a gift then. Is that correct?
Well, consider when someone gives another a hard time. Or gives someone their cold or flu. Or worse.
Jut because the Bible speaks of God giving things, doesn't demand that those things are gifts.
Let's just stick with what Scripture describes as a gift, such as
1. spiritual gifts - Rom 1:11
2. justificaiton - Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17
3. eternal life - Rom 6:23
4. indwelling Holy Spirit - Acts 11:15-17
And, let's not forget that the gifts of God are irrevocable - Rom 11:29

OK, your crazy semantic rules demanding it include the word 'gift' since I have no intention of arguing about whether something that God gives someone is a gift ...

I'm not sure why asking for where Scripture describes something as a gift is so crazy, since the subject is in fact about gifts.

If the Bible describes something as a gift, then it IS a gift. Obviously. If the Bible doesn't describe something as a gift, then it ISN'T a gift.

I have provided several things that the Bible describes as gifts that are from God.

I have also provided several examples of things that are given from someone to someone, which are NOT ever considered gifts:
1. flu
2. head cold
3. chest cold
4. black eye
5. a hard time
6. etc

Psalm 127:3 NASB. Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward.

• Children are a GIFT of the LORD (scripture specifically says so).

Job 1:2 NASB. Seven sons and three daughters were born to him.

• The LORD gives a GIFT to Job.

Job 1:18-19 NASB. 18 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19 and behold, a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people and they died, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”

The LORD took back the GIFT from Job.

Except not. They were always his children, even after they died. So God didn't revoke this gift of children.

But, furthermore, God wasn't involved in what Job lost. That was from satan. If you'll recall, God's only restriction in round 1 was:
Job 1:12 - The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

What happened to Job came directly from satan. Please don't blame God for what satan chose to do to Job.

Job 42:13 NASB. He had seven sons and three daughters.

The LORD can even return a GIFT that He gave, and took back.

Again, NOT. What happened was that the LORD gave Job MORE GIFTS. If God had resurrected the first set of children, one might be able to say God returned the gifts to Job.

But again, the point is being missed, that even though children may die, that doesn't in and of itself mean the gift was revoked.

Now I have followed your arbitrary rules and still made the exact same point, yet again.
Why doesn't it count this time?

For the reasons just explained.

 

[FreeGrace]

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:28-35

Is there any reason to quote Rom 6:23 with Matt 18:28-35? Is there a connection? I don't see one.

Can you earn forgiveness of your sins by working, or is the forgiveness of our sins God's gift to us, because of Jesus Christ and the price He paid to free us from our sins?

What does earning have to do with anything.

Does one earn -
1. head cold
2. chest cold
3. flu
4. black eye (well, maybe)
5. a hard time
6. etc

These (mostly) aren't earned, yet are not considered a gift by any stretch of the imagination.

This thread has been hijacked by the FALSE NOTION that anything given means it's a gift.

I've shown a number of things that ARE given by someone to someone, and yet are NEVER considered a gift.

 

[JLB]

Please direct me to the verse that describes covenant relationship with Christ as a gift or a free gift.


This passage doesn't mention "gift" at all.

It is through unbelief we can be severed from Christ, in which we are cut off from His life.


This was happening in the first century, when believing Jews were being persuaded to return to the law of Moses, by unbelieving Jews who were persecuting them.


Paul warns -

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB



Because of unbelief we can have the free gift of covenant relationship with Christ ( being grated into the Olive Tree) taken away.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23


JLB

 

[JLB]

What does earning have to do with anything.

Does one earn -
1. head cold
2. chest cold
3. flu
4. black eye (well, maybe)
5. a hard time
6. etc

These (mostly) aren't earned, yet are not considered a gift by any stretch of the imagination.

This thread has been hijacked by the FALSE NOTION that anything given means it's a gift.

I've shown a number of things that ARE given by someone to someone, and yet are NEVER considered a gift.

Have you shown good things that come from God?


What a joke!!

Trying to compare the forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ, to a sickness or black-eye, shows us you are at the end of your final desperation, as the final nail in the coffin is hammered down on your heretical doctrine.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I asked this:
"Please support your notion that the Garden was a gift to Adam."
No, not really. I read every verse quoted and didn't find any reference to "gift". What I did find was that God gave Adam the garden, etc.
So, it seems you've concluded that whatever is given is properly a gift then. Is that correct?
Well, consider when someone gives another a hard time. Or gives someone their cold or flu. Or worse.
Jut because the Bible speaks of God giving things, doesn't demand that those things are gifts.
Let's just stick with what Scripture describes as a gift, such as
1. spiritual gifts - Rom 1:11
2. justificaiton - Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17
3. eternal life - Rom 6:23
4. indwelling Holy Spirit - Acts 11:15-17
And, let's not forget that the gifts of God are irrevocable - Rom 11:29

I'm not sure why asking for where Scripture describes something as a gift is so crazy, since the subject is in fact about gifts.

If the Bible describes something as a gift, then it IS a gift. Obviously. If the Bible doesn't describe something as a gift, then it ISN'T a gift.

I have provided several things that the Bible describes as gifts that are from God.

I have also provided several examples of things that are given from someone to someone, which are NOT ever considered gifts:
1. flu
2. head cold
3. chest cold
4. black eye
5. a hard time
6. etc


Except not. They were always his children, even after they died. So God didn't revoke this gift of children.

But, furthermore, God wasn't involved in what Job lost. That was from satan. If you'll recall, God's only restriction in round 1 was:
Job 1:12 - The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

What happened to Job came directly from satan. Please don't blame God for what satan chose to do to Job.


Again, NOT. What happened was that the LORD gave Job MORE GIFTS. If God had resurrected the first set of children, one might be able to say God returned the gifts to Job.

But again, the point is being missed, that even though children may die, that doesn't in and of itself mean the gift was revoked.


For the reasons just explained.

Paul warns -

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace


19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

This is what I said:
"Please direct me to the verse that describes covenant relationship with Christ as a gift or a free gift.

This passage doesn't mention "gift" at all."

It is through unbelief we can be severed from Christ, in which we are cut off from His life.

2 things.

First, your comment seems to have no relationship whatsoever to my comment.

Second, please provide the Scripture that supports your opinion about being severed from Christ through unbelief.

Paul warns -

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

It appears rather clearly that you've simply misread the verse. It speaks of falling from GRACE, not falling from believing. They aren't the same. So this verse doesn't support your claim.

Because of unbelief we can have the free gift of covenant relationship with Christ ( being grated into the Olive Tree) taken away.

What Scripture teaches this?

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23
JLB

Once again, there is no mention of "gift" in this passage. Nor is there any description of the covenant relationship with Christ as a gift, so this idea is just a very far stretch.

 

[FreeGrace]

Have you shown good things that come from God?

Of course they do. But I was pointing out that just because something is given doesn't make it a gift.

What a joke!!

Calling anything given as a gift? Of course that's a joke.

Trying to compare the forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ, to a sickness or black-eye, shows us you are at the end of your final desperation, as the final nail in the coffin is hammered down on your heretical doctrine.
JLB

Why would anyone do that? It makes no sense. I've only proven that not everything that is given can be called a gift. Want to see the partial list again?