What Gifts from God are revocable?

[FreeGrace]

Paul warns -

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

What is abundantly clear is that the Greek word for "severed" is NOT EVEN CLOSE to meaning "removed". So, please try again.

What I really don't understand is why there is such resistance to the fact that fellowship can EASILY be severed between people. Yet without any blood being spilled.

And because of Eph 1:13,14, we know that the one "having believed" is sealed IN HIM and is GUARANTEED an inheritance for the day of redemption, thus making the claim that anyone who has believed can be removed from Him. Not possible.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace

And again, what verse teaches this idea?

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23
JLB

Where is grace described as a gift either in this passage or anywhere else in Scripture? Simply repeated a false statement never results in making it true.

 

[reba]

for_his_glory
short off topic break... Happy Birthday !

 

[JLB]

What is abundantly clear is that the Greek word for "severed" is NOT EVEN CLOSE to meaning "removed". So, please try again.

Severed - Strong's G2673 - katargeō

1. to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
   
   1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
      
      
   2. to deprive of force, influence, power
      
2. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
   
   1. to cease, to pass away, be done away
      
      
   2. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
      
      
   3. to terminate all intercourse with one
      

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace


19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23


JLB

 

[JLB]

Of course they do. But I was pointing out that just because something is given doesn't make it a gift.


Calling anything given as a gift? Of course that's a joke.


Why would anyone do that? It makes no sense. I've only proven that not everything that is given can be called a gift. Want to see the partial list again?

More twisting with opinions of man, which is where your theology comes from.

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace


19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Severed - Strong's G2673 - katargeō

1. 
   
   
   • to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
     1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
        
     2. to deprive of force, influence, power
   • to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
     1. to cease, to pass away, be done away
        
     2. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
        
     3. to terminate all intercourse with one

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23
JLB

None of these verses contradicts Eph 1:13 and 14. The sealing with the Holy Spirit is a GUARANTEE of the inheritance of those who have believed (aorist) for the day of redemption.

It doesn't matter how much one doesn't like any particular verse. The verse is still true nonetheless.

Since quoting from Greek lexicons (dictionary) is seen frequently in your posts, let's see what the Greek lexicon says about "guarantee" in Eph 1:13 -
NT:728 - arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn'); of Hebrew origin [OT:6162]; a pledge, i.e. part of the purchase-money or property given in advance as security for the rest:

OK, so, what's a "pledge"?

From Yahoo search:
1. a solemn promise or undertaking: "the conference ended with a joint pledge to limit pollution"synonyms:promise, undertaking, vow, word, word of honor, ...
2. a thing that is given as security for the fulfillment of a contract or the payment of a debt and is liable to forfeiture in the event of failure.synonyms:surety, bond, security, collateral, guarantee,

Please note 2 words above: security and guarantee. Bingo.

So, are God's promises solemn or not?

This is what the Bible says about that:
Titus 1:2 - in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
Heb 6:18 - God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.

So, when God guarantees the inheritance of one who has believed, He didn't lie about it.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"But I was pointing out that just because something is given doesn't make it a gift.

Calling anything given as a gift? Of course that's a joke."

More twisting with opinions of man, which is where your theology comes from.

The twisting and opining is on anyone who claims that whatever is given to another is a gift. You've failed to prove your opinion.

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

Mere repetition of an opinion does not make it come true.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace

1. No evidence that grace is described as a gift.
2. No evidence that anyone who has believed and therefore is IN HIM can be removed from Him, esp since God GUARANTEES their inheritance for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"But I was pointing out that just because something is given doesn't make it a gift.

Calling anything given as a gift? Of course that's a joke."

The twisting and opining is on anyone who claims that whatever is given to another is a gift. You've failed to prove your opinion.


Mere repetition of an opinion does not make it come true.


1. No evidence that grace is described as a gift.
2. No evidence that anyone who has believed and therefore is IN HIM can be removed from Him, esp since God GUARANTEES their inheritance for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14

Stop talking in circles and ignoring what the scriptures say.


Why would you state a flat out bald face lie about what severed means?

• Explain to us how a person who is severed from Christ can still be saved?

Severed - Strong's G2673 - katargeō

1. to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
   1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
      
      
   2. to deprive of force, influence, power
2. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
   1. to cease, to pass away, be done away
      
      
   2. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
      
      
   3. to terminate all intercourse with one

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace


19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23


JLB

 

[atpollard]

Mirriam-Webster:

Definition of gift
1: a notable capacity, talent, or endowment

• Like Samson's strength.

2: something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

• Like God giving Eden to Adam.

I think you may need to be more specific about the exact Greek or Hebrew word you are thinking of, because pretty much anything and everything given by God is a 'gift' under the English definition of the word. Frankly, if God gave a black eye to one of His chosen, His sheep, His elect, His fore-loved, then even that WOULD be a gift ... like the gift God gave to Joseph (slavery, false accusation, prison) all, ultimately, for Joseph's good and God's glory.

 

[reba]

Samson's hair had to grow back before his strength returned

 

[FreeGrace]

Stop talking in circles and ignoring what the scriptures say.

This makes no sense. No circles, and I've cited or quoted verses that say what I say.

Why would you state a flat out bald face lie about what severed means?

• Explain to us how a person who is severed from Christ can still be saved?

Severed - Strong's G2673 - katargeō

1. 
   
   
   • to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
     1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
        
        
     2. to deprive of force, influence, power
   • to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
     1. to cease, to pass away, be done away
        
        
     2. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
        
        
     3. to terminate all intercourse with one

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

As I've explained, what is "severed" is fellowship. The Bible emphasizes fellowship with God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Fellowship with the Father and His Son:
1 John 1:3 - what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

Fellowship with the Son:
1 Cor 1:9 - God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Fellowship with the Holy Spirit:
2 Cor 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
Phil 2:1 - Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion,

These verses are from NAS.

Being "severed from Christ" is no different than fellowship between parent and child being severed, or fellowship between husband and wife being severed.

It is the SAME EXACT principle.

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.

This opinion has not been shown from Scripture.

Because of unbelief we can be separated from the free gift of grace

Yes, under God's discipline, we can be separated from His grace.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:19-23
JLB

Once again, the metaphor is about being cut off from service, not salvation. Where is the subject of salvation mentioned here? It isn't.

 

[MarkT]

Salvation is one of the Gifts from God that is not revocable.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (James 1:17)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Can anyone name a gift from God, that He has given to an individual that is revocable?.

What do you mean by revokable? To revoke something is to cancel it. If something is promised according to an irrevocable covenant, then it can not be revoked or cancelled. Also a covenant is a two way thing. God promised salvation and eternal life to those who believe in his Son Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy 1:16
but I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience for an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.

 

[JLB]

This makes no sense. No circles, and I've cited or quoted verses that say what I say.

That's just it you haven't.

You don't quote scripture, nor any context.

You state your opinion, then you quote a reference that does not say what you claim.

I have repeatedly asked you to discuss the actual words of scripture so we don't keep going around and around.

• Now go ahead and explain how a person can be severed from Christ, and still be saved?

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

This scripture does not say severed from fellowship.

It says severed from Christ.

• First you tried to say - "severed" is NOT EVEN CLOSE to meaning "removed".

Now that is shown to be another false statement, you try to explain it away, with the ole "redefined" definition.

As I've explained, what is "severed" is fellowship.

I didn't ask for another "explanation" but to explain how a person who is severed from Christ is still saved.

• You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law;

Severed - Strong's G2673 - katargeō

1. to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
   1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
      
      
   2. to deprive of force, influence, power
2. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
   1. to cease, to pass away, be done away
      
      
   2. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
      
      
   3. to terminate all intercourse with one

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

That's just it you haven't.

Untrue.

You don't quote scripture, nor any context.

Untrue.

You state your opinion, then you quote a reference that does not say what you claim.

Untrue. If it were true, why was there NO RESPONSE to show that the reference I quoted doesn't say what I claim. I've done that with ALL the verses in your posts. I've even invited responses to show where and how I'm wrong.

And, what happened? Just the sound of crickets.

I have repeatedly asked you to discuss the actual words of scripture so we don't keep going around and around.

And I've given them, repeatedly. And the response has been crickets about what I've posted.

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

This scripture does not say severed from fellowship.

Oh, this is rich. Where does it say "severed from salvation"?

Why isn't it clear that Eph 1:13-14 PREVENTS Gal 5:4 to mean being removed from being in union with Christ?

It says severed from Christ.

And, because of the clear words of Eph 1:13-14, it CANNOT mean "to be taken out of union with Christ".

What I will never do is accept the heresy that Scripture trumps Scripture, or contradicts itself. It seems some aren't so bothered by that.

But I am very bothered by such a trick.

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.
JLB

Because I accept Eph 1:13-14, I refuse to believe that God's GUARANTEE means nothing.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

When is a guarantee not a guarantee? Never, when the guarantee comes from God.

As usual, I expect the sound of crickets to what I've posted. Please don't bother just repeated your own talking points.

Explain how a GUARANTEE from God doesn't mean anything. Which seems to be your view.

 

[JLB]

Untrue.


Untrue.


Untrue. If it were true, why was there NO RESPONSE to show that the reference I quoted doesn't say what I claim. I've done that with ALL the verses in your posts. I've even invited responses to show where and how I'm wrong.

And, what happened? Just the sound of crickets.


And I've given them, repeatedly. And the response has been crickets about what I've posted.


Oh, this is rich. Where does it say "severed from salvation"?

Why isn't it clear that Eph 1:13-14 PREVENTS Gal 5:4 to mean being removed from being in union with Christ?


And, because of the clear words of Eph 1:13-14, it CANNOT mean "to be taken out of union with Christ".

What I will never do is accept the heresy that Scripture trumps Scripture, or contradicts itself. It seems some aren't so bothered by that.

But I am very bothered by such a trick.


Because I accept Eph 1:13-14, I refuse to believe that God's GUARANTEE means nothing.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

When is a guarantee not a guarantee? Never, when the guarantee comes from God.

As usual, I expect the sound of crickets to what I've posted. Please don't bother just repeated your own talking points.

Explain how a GUARANTEE from God doesn't mean anything. Which seems to be your view.

You can't explain away the question, but stating more of your opinion, and tagging it with a scripture reference.

So far nothing you are saying applies to this scripture.

So far you have not explained how a person can still be saved, even though they are severed from Christ.

Eternal life is only found in Christ Jesus, those who are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him have eternal life.

Those who are severed from Him, are severed from the eternal life that is only found in Him.


Please explain how a person who is severed from Christ, is still saved.

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB

Severed - Strong's G2673 - katargeō

1. 
   
   
   • to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
     1. to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
        
        
     2. to deprive of force, influence, power
   • to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
     1. to cease, to pass away, be done away
        
        
     2. to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
        
        
     3. to terminate all intercourse with one

Because of unbelief we can be removed from Christ.



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

OK....
Since this is yet another (yawn) OSAS/OSNAS discussion...

And the same cast of characters are once again breaking every rule we have about personal jabs and insults.

I'm going to shut this thread down and hold my breath waiting for the exact same thing to happen yet again. I wonder if I will turn blue waiting to breathe.....nahhhh, I seriously doubt it.