What if Adam had not sinned ?

[savedbygrace57]

Did God create Adam a sinner ?

God did create Adam the first man out of the dust a sinner in that He created him with the capacity to sin, and all that was needed to happen in that regard was an opportunity for that capacity to sin to be found or made manifest, which the serpents temptation provided !

The Lord Jesus Christ on the other hand, had no capacity as a Man to sin simply because as a Man He was not a sinner, and so His testing from satan or the same serpent, the devil was but an opportunity for His sinless perfection and no capacity to sin to become manifested; For only a sinner has the capacity to sin and to be confirmed outwardly or manifestly a sinner !

The same held true in the angelic world, satan or Lucifer at his creation was created a sinful angel with the capacity to sin, along with the other angels that sinned along with him, whereas the Elect Angels, the Holy Angels [Matt 25:31;Rev 14:10]God Created them with no capacity to sin, And in Glory, the Sons of God, the Saints shall be as them in that regard, with no capacity to sin Lk 20:36

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

This means that the Holy Angels of God that did not sin in Satan's revolt, the Elect Holy Angels, could not sin, and so could not die, death only comes by sin, For God had Created them immutability Holy and with Immortality, as the Saints will be made shortly 1 Cor 15:53-54 !

Now if they, The Holy Angels, could have sinned, that means the Glorified Saints in Glory can sin, because they will be equal to them ! Lk 20:36

 

[savedbygrace57]

Who did Adam Represent ?

Was Adam the Representative of all mankind without exception in the beginning in eden ? The answer is no, for Adam only represented the Church, the Sons of God Lk 3:38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. Cp Gen 6:2

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

He represented those Chosen in Christ as he was a figure of Him to come Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The rest of mankind belonged to the devil and were created in his image and likeness, for he represented them from the beginning. Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Now, that Adam was not represented of all mankind without exception is seen in a few ways, #1 In Romans 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Now where it states that many be dead or many died through one man's Trespass, the many in the greek is oi polloi so many has the definite article meaning a definite group of people, that same phrase the many touv pollouv again the definite article is stated to have had the Grace of God and the free gift by that Grace, by the One Man Christ abound to that Many ! Now if the Many be the same in each case, which I see no just reason to doubt, and we know for a fact that all men without exception did not receive of the Grace of God and that Gift by Grace through the One Man Jesus Christ, then the reasonable conclusion is that it was not all men without exception that died or be dead through the one man's trespass Adam ! In both cases it was an definite the many ! And Christ gave His Life a ransom for the Many Matt 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Also the word for here is the prep anti and means:

instead of, for :


a) instead of, in return for, over against, opposite, in exchange for, as a substitute for, (b) on my behalf, (c) wherefore, because.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Who did Adam Represent ? 2

#2 We know all men without exception were not represented by Adam at Creation because of God's Choice of Israel to be separate and special from all other people of the Earth Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

And by which choosing them, when giving them the Law and the 4th Commandment referenced here where Creation is mentioned Ex 20:8-11

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Therefore Adam represented God's Chosen People Israel, and not the non elect, whom God did not give this Law to include this 4 th Commandment which reaches back to the Creation of Man in Adam Ps 147:19-20

19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.

God did show His Word to Adam in the beginning, that the Seed of the Woman would come through Him, which is the sabbath for Man !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Who did Adam Represent ? 3

#3, We know Adam represented the Elect only because through his seed, according to the flesh, the Messiah would come as the seed of the woman Gen 3:15, now if Christ was the woman's seed which woman would have been Eve to whom God was also speaking and whom the serpent had just beguiled 2 Cor 11:3

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Then He was also the seed of Adam [according to the flesh] whom Eve was also one flesh with. This is also confirmed [that Christ was Adam's seed according to the flesh] by Luke's genealogy recording Lk 3:23-38

 

[Arch Angle]

yeah i tough about it.

did adam sin?

what is sin?

is there that type of god?

How does the human mind work?

what he did can not be considered sin. Foolish? yes, but there are two sides to every story. God knows all three.

 

[stranger]

Who did Adam Represent ? 3

#3, We know Adam represented the Elect only because through his seed, according to the flesh, the Messiah would come as the seed of the woman Gen 3:15, now if Christ was the woman's seed which woman would have been Eve to whom God was also speaking and whom the serpent had just beguiled 2 Cor 11:3

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Then He was also the seed of Adam [according to the flesh] whom Eve was also one flesh with. This is also confirmed [that Christ was Adam's seed according to the flesh] by Luke's genealogy recording Lk 3:23-38

Hi savedbygrace57,

Greetings. From Gen3:15 and the NT accounts of the birth of Christ - the woman from whom Christ took His flesh was Mary. So while Eve was one flesh with Adam, Christ took his flesh 'born of a woman' which refers to Mary. In Gen 3:15 you might be interested to look at the enmity God places between Satan and the woman, and between 'your (Satan's seed) and her seed' which we agree is Christ (the proto-evangel). The enmity God places can be argued to be absolute since the enmity between Satan and Christ is absolute. That this same enmity is between Mary and Satan (from the prophesy) makes sense since the enmity between Satan and Eve before the fall was absolute BUT not absolute after the fall. In other words Eve by sinning was already at enmity with God, and if you like, on the wrong side of the fence with the Serpent.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Man in Adam


Man in Adam in the very beginning did enjoy being made in the Image and Likeness of God,created in Creature Uprightness Ecclesiastes 7:29

29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

But after man sinned in Adam, that deprived him of God's Image and Likeness, destroyed his fellowship with God, alienated him from and the Life of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


Man by the fall was corrupted physically, mentally, and emotionally and spiritually, man by nature cannot even discern the things of God ! 1 Cor 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Our mind is darkened to the degree that we are without understanding Eph 4:18

18 Having the understanding / mind darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Rom 1:31

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Being under the Power and Dominion of satan 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Man in this condition is not in the Image and Likeness of God !

 

[stranger]

Who did Adam Represent ? 3

#3, We know Adam represented the Elect only because through his seed, according to the flesh, the Messiah would come as the seed of the woman Gen 3:15, now if Christ was the woman's seed which woman would have been Eve to whom God was also speaking and whom the serpent had just beguiled 2 Cor 11:3

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Then He was also the seed of Adam [according to the flesh] whom Eve was also one flesh with. This is also confirmed [that Christ was Adam's seed according to the flesh] by Luke's genealogy recording Lk 3:23-38

Greetings again, Savedbygrace57,
Another observation about this post:

You seem to be saying that 'Christ was Adam's seed according to the flesh'.

Luke's genealogy does not say that 'Christ was Adam's seed according to the flesh.' Luke describes Jesus as the supposed son of Joseph. Luke else where makes it clear that '34 Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.'

Further reference can be see in Matthew:

c.f. Luke 3:23 with Matt 1:16 Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.

For this reason we have a new humanity in the second Adam - now in this thread 'What if Adam had not sinned' I make no further comment. Savedbygrace57, be of the generation that shall call Mary blessed for it pleased God to reveal the mystery of the incarnation through her. The Lord be with you.

 

[savedbygrace57]

stranger

You seem to be saying that 'Christ was Adam's seed according to the
flesh'.

Exactly !

Luke's genealogy does not say that 'Christ was Adam's seed according to the
flesh.

It doesnt say Christ was not Adam's Seed according to the flesh ! However Christ is traced back to Adam in Luke.

 

[stranger]

Hi Savedbygrace57,

I read your opening post and had a quick look over some others. Was Jesus Christ created?

 

[ezra]

For this reason then, Adam must be that serpent!

just how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Hi Savedbygrace57,

I read your opening post and had a quick look over some others. Was Jesus Christ created?

I am not answering your questions until you deal with what I have already posted, you are avoiding much already. Now do you understand my points in post 427 ? Please rehearse them with me so I can see that you at least see where I am coming from even if you do not agree. I put too much work into my posts for you to glance over them and them start a question on another subject. Thanks !

 

[stranger]

I am not answering your questions until you deal with what I have already posted, you are avoiding much already. Now do you understand my points in post 427 ? Please rehearse them with me so I can see that you at least see where I am coming from even if you do not agree. I put too much work into my posts for you to glance over them and them start a question on another subject. Thanks !

Hi savedbygrace57,

My discussion focus was on your post 424 and I am interested in only in your Christology. The conclusion I have come to is that you believe Christ is the Archangel Michael. He is an example of your beliefs on this:

by savedbygrace57


Is Jesus Christ also Michael the Arch Angel ? 

Rev 12:


7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 

 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 

 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 

 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 

 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 This scripture testified of a great conflict between Michael and the Dragon, which is Satan, the Arch Angel is none other than The Lord Jesus Christ; For this is known because of the words Arch Angel, which means Chief Messenger, and so what Greater Messenger than Jesus Christ ? Who By the Way is the Messenger of the Covenant Mal 3:

 1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger or prince of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

 In Daniel 10 21


 21But I will shew thee [Daniel] that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

 Michael is here said to be Daniels Prince !! see acts 5:

 31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 Christ here is called a Prince along with being called a Saviour or Deliverer, Now, who is Daniels Prince and Saviour, but the Lord Jesus Christ ?

 In Daniel 12:

 1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 Michael is called the Great Prince of thy People , again, this could be none other than The Prince and Saviour of Israel [acts 5:31] Gods Chosen People.

Here is an example of something very similar. . .

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-michael-the-archangel/

JW.ORG

Jehovah’s Witnesses


Who Is Michael the Archangel?
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael? 

At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2;  Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion. 

Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ,  1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael. 

Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon…and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7;  Matthew 16:27;  24:31;  1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.*

Might leave this here for the forum moderators to consider the belief that Christ is the archangel Michael i.e. an angel with other attributes, falls outside the scope of Christian.

Apart from Jehovah's Witnesses there are also other groups who believe Christ is the Archangel Michael. So savedbygrace57, if your not a Jehovah's Witness - what do you call yourself? This is a Protestant forum.

 

[savedbygrace57]

He took on the Seed of Abraham !


Did Adam represent all mankind in the beginning ? No he did not, for he only represented the seed of Abraham which was the only seed in the beginning before sin. Adam represented a Godly Seed Mal 2:15

And did not he make one [Adam and Eve]? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

This is the Seed of Abraham through whom Christ would come. Now lets look at Christ's genealogy from Luke 3 and we find that Abraham is in that generation which began with Adam Lk 3:3-38


23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,

25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,

26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,

27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,

28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,

29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,

30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,

31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,

32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,

33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,

34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,

35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,

36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,

37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


If we start back at Gen 5, there the record begins as to who were of the generations Adam and it ends at the end of Chapter 5:1-32

Quote:
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.

12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:

13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.

15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:

16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:

17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.

18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.

26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:

31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
It ends with Noah. It picks back up with shem in Gen 10:21

21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

Cp Luke 3:36,34

36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,


And Vs 34 we have Abraham

34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,

Out of Noah's sons in the generation of Christ only shem is mentioned leading back to Adam !


So understand, Christ did not merely take on human nature n general for all mankind, but He took on a specific and particular segment of mankind, a remnant if you will, the Seed of Abraham, So Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The ESV For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.

You see that ? Jesus Christ came to seek and to save and to help the offspring of Abraham, not all men without exception !

The Aramaic bible brings it good:

For death was not authorized over the Angels, but death was authorized over the seed of Abraham.

Which means Christ's was only Authorized to come and aid a particular seed within mankind !

No other segment did He Identify with. When speaking on to whom Salvation came in Lk 19, notice His words carefully Lk 19:8-10

And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

This mis that which Christ came to seek and to save which was Lost in Adam, the Seed of Abraham, a Chosen People separate from all other peoples of the Earth ! Adam in the beginning was the Natural and Federal Head of that People ! Thats God's World by the way !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Was mans heart evil from the beginning ?


Was Adam's Heart Evil in the beginning when God said of their Creation Gen 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Now was their Heart Wicked or Evil at their very beginning ?

This is what characterizes a Evil Heart Heb 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Now did Adam and Eve have this type of heart in the beginning of their creation that would cause them to depart from the Living God in Unbelief ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

They were sold under sin !

Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

When Adam and Eve sinned by way of the Serpent's Temptation of Eve, it revealed that they were carnal, sold unto sin, as Paul states here.

It revealed they were carnal, and God's Law "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:"

It was spiritual. So the point of the testing was the same as it was for His People Israel later Deut 13:3

Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

It is evident that Adam and Eve fresh after Creation sis not Love their God with all their Heart and Soul or Eve would not have hearken to the Serpent.

But she couldnt, because even at Creation both her ans Adam were Carnal !

 

[savedbygrace57]

In the beginning guess what ?


In the beginning after God had created man/adam in His own image and after His likeness, we read that God said of His creation Gen 1:26-31

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Now in this state of being considered by God " Very Good " adam was in, but was he in a state of True Holiness and Righteousness as the New created man by God is here Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

I don't believe man in adam at creation, though very good, don't believe God created him in True Righteousness and Holiness as the New Man. If He did, what happened ? Can it happen again ?

If adam was Created the first time in Righteousness and True Holiness, then his character would have reflected it, eves also, in the hour of temptation. Supreme Love to God out of a pure heart would have governed their reaction to the serpents temptation if they were in a state of True Holiness and Righteousness. However who can doubt that within them [adam and eve] was lying latent the deceitful lusts of which the New Man is contrasted to in Eph 4:22

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Now was not eve's heart drawn away by deceitful lusts when the serpent beguiled her ? Gen 3:1-6

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

That word desired is the hebrew word chamad:


to desire, covet, take pleasure in, delight in

a) (Qal) to desire

b) (Niphal) to be desirable

c) (Piel) to delight greatly, desire greatly

And it is actually translated to covet ! Ex 20:17

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Joshua 7:21

21 When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.

So eve coveted a level of wisdom that God had not given her, she wanted to be wiser than the Goodness of God created her, and thats why desire became covetousness, which is Idolatry Col 3:5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

The word covetousness here means:

greedy desire to have more, covetousness, avarice

Eve had a greedy desire to have more wisdom ! And it manifested her idolatry from God !

This proves that the New Man, Created in Righteousness and True Holiness is far superior to the man adam at creation, though announced by God very good ! For God had a far more Superior Purpose for man than in adam !238

 

[savedbygrace57]

In the beginning guess what ? 2

The New Man here in Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This Man receives His character out of being born of incorruptible Seed [Christ] 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This describes the Living Word, which is Christ, the Word of God Jn 1:1 and Rev 19:13 !

Whereas adam was taken from the dust and made a corruptible man . Two different sources here.

The New Man born out of the Word of God cannot sin because He is born of God, and has been communicated by this birth an Immutable and Incorruptible Holiness and Righteousness, which is called also a Seed 1 Jn 3:9

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The man born out of incorruptible Seed is an incorruptible man. Now adam at creation was in a upright creature innocence, but he was not in a state of Righteousness and True Holiness practically !

However God's Purpose was from the beginning for man to be before Him as here written Eph 1:3-4

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This was not to happen to man in adam, it was never God's intention or purpose !

 

[stovebolts]

This mis that which Christ came to seek and to save which was Lost in Adam, the Seed of Abraham, a Chosen People separate from all other peoples of the Earth ! Adam in the beginning was the Natural and Federal Head of that People ! Thats God's World by the way !

You seem to be saying that Christ only came to save a particular race, or perhaps "seed" and that because Christ was of the linage of Abraham which also tracks back to Adam, only those from the linage of Adam's "seed" will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Galatians 3:26-29 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[savedbygrace57]

God's Idea Holiness for Man !

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God's Idea Holiness for man was never to be found in adam, but in Christ the Beloved; So in other words, man was not created in adam to be Holy and Without Blame before God, for God determined how that would come about before adam was a speck of dust, and it was through being Chosen in Christ before the foundation !

Now no doubt Adam and man in him was created upright and even innocent from transgression, but inward Holiness of Life he had not. True Holiness inwardly does Love the LORD God with all its being Deut 6:4-5

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

This commandment demands love to God with all our affections of mind and heart and might ! Thats a tall order !

This Commandment did not begin with National Israel, but it applied to man in Adam in the very beginning, its an Eternal Law , and let it be known that Adam and Eve in their pristine creation DID NOT LOVE GOD in this magnitude in the beginning , because they did not keep His commandment when tried by the serpent. To keep God's commandments is the test of ones Love to Him Jn 14:15

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Deut 13:3

Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet[or the serpent], or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

God already knew what was in man/adam and eve, but adam did not know experientially what was in him, which was a lack of holiness of heart to Love God his Creator and Benefactor !

After adam sinned he knew now both good and evil, the evil was in him but he did not know it before as he did the good !

The evil adam learned was that same evil Paul points to here Rom 7:21

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

He experienced this what Paul states again in Rom 7:8-9

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

When the serpent came to eve through his slick conversation with her, it made evil in her alive

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Thats how eve was deceived, the same greek word as here 2 Cor 11:3

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

He says deceive here 1 Tim 2:14

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Beguiled in 2 Cor 11:3 is derived from the word used here in Timothy !

The Love to God and Holiness of Heart and Life that God requires was not to be found in adam, for that was proved in Gen 3, but to be found only in Christ Jesus and Election in Him before the foundation, and it was by God's Eternal Purpose that Holiness and Blamelessness before Him would be solely through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, and so this another reason why this world was created for an redemptive purpose in Christ ! And the Holiness of Heart that God requires of man is the fruit of Election in Christ Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God never intended this Holiness in adam, as many are deceived into believing today !240