What Is Baptism?

Discussion in 'Theology' started by wondering, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. wondering

    wondering Member

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    Thanks.
    So if I believe, but am never baptized, God would banish me to hell forever?
    So then why would Jesus have had to die?
    Rhetorical questions, of course.
    We should be baptized as Jesus commanded, but I doubt we'd lose our salvation if not.

    P.S.

    I just read the attachment to Got Questions which you linked.
     
  2. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Got Questions explains it better than I could.

    My basic understanding is that baptism saves and if you are not baptised you are not saved.

    Twice I have actually had people who believe that you have to be baptised to be saved say to me when I mention the thief on the cross, that he was baptised, he would have been baptised by John the Baptist. They quote

    Matthew 3:5-6
    Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.

    Emphasis on ALL.

    I think to myself 'Really? Would a man who was bad enough. A thief, renegade and was nailed to a cross be baptised by John?
     
  3. wondering

    wondering Member

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    I learned way back in school that whenever a questions says ALL, it's always wrong! Nothing is ever ALL!!
     
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  4. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Copied and pasted the following

    Those who baptize in the name of Jesus only either fail to recognize or else simply ignore that vital and significant difference between the statements “in the name of Jesus” and “in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit.
    To be baptized “upon the name” or “into the name” of Jesus suggests the ground or occasion for the baptism.

    “The name” in Scripture often denotes the sum of the divine attributes of the Person named, all that is involved in the Being whose name is designated.

    “Into the name” denotes union or communion with the Being named. Thayer says that “by a usage chiefly Hebraistic the name is used for everything a name covers…to do a thing in the name of another, i.e., by one’s command and authority, acting on his behalf, promoting his cause.”

    Thus, acting by the authority of Christ from the relationship we sustain to him our Redeemer and Lord, we are baptized into a state of union and communion with God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    Vincent well says, “The name is not the mere designation, a sense which would give to the baptismal formula merely the force of a charm.

    The name, as in the Lord’s prayer (‘Hallowed by they name’), is the expression of the sum total of the divine Being; not his designation as god or Lord, but the formula in which all his attributes and characteristics are summer up.

    It is equivalent to his person. The finite mind can deal with him only through his name, but his name is of no avail detached from his nature.

    When one is baptized into the name of the Trinity, he professes to acknowledge and appropriate god in all that he is and in all that he does for man. He recognizes and depends upon God the Father as his creator and Preserver; receives Jesus Christ as his one Mediator and Redeemer, and his pattern of life; and confesses the Holy spirit as his Sanctifier and Comforter.” (Word Studies in the New Testament, vol. 1, p
     
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  5. Chopper

    Chopper Member

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    Hey, when all has been said and done, both titles, "In Jesus' Name" or "In the Name of the Father, Son & Holy Ghost will Scripturally Baptize any individual by immersion. To pick either one as the only Scriptural method is simply wrong and very prideful. This statement by Dan is extremely offensive, and I fear dangerous spiritually....
     
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  6. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Yes it is.

    To say that someone who has stood up and confessed their faith in Jesus in front of many people (as normaly happens) and because the wrong words have been said then they have not been baptised is foolish and shows a total lack of understanding of what baptism is about.

    It's not conditional for salvation, this is

    Romans 10:9-13
    that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

    I had the privilege on Easter Sunday to baptise 3 people.

    I asked each of them "Do you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead?

    When each of them said yes it was an honour and privilege to say "I now baptise you into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

    One man was in tears when he rose out of the water and was thanking Jesus.

    To say to this man at some point "Sorry mate your baptism is false and you need to be re-baptised only in the name of Jesus" is truly shocking

    To me the mode of baptism is not relevant (open to correction) but the reason why which is

    ''I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead"

    They are being baptised because Jesus asked them to be. To me baptism doesn't save, God does.
    Baptism is a spiritual marker on ones life.
     
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  7. Chopper

    Chopper Member

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    Here is an interesting quote from "GotQuestions.org....
    Question: "Should we be baptized in Jesus' name (Acts 2:38), or in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)?"

    Answer:
    Acts 2:38 records the Apostle Peter’s words on the day of Pentecost, “Peter replied, ‘Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.’” This was a strong affirmation by Peter that “there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Being baptized in the name of Jesus indicates an understanding by the person being baptized that Christ is the Savior.

    Christian baptism is also in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). Being baptized in this manner simply means we are identifying ourselves with the Trinity. We belong to the Father, are saved by the Son, and indwelt by the Spirit. This is similar to how we pray in Jesus’ name (John 14:13). If we pray in the name of Jesus, we are praying with His authority and asking God the Father to act upon our prayers because we come in the name of His Son, Jesus. Being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is being baptized in identification with them and their power over and in our lives. Jesus Himself specifically tells us to baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).

    In the Book of Acts, new believers were baptized in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:12; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5). It is, however, essentially the same thing—Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are one (John 10:30; Acts 16:7). Per Jesus’ own instructions, believers should be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but as the book of Acts proves, baptizing in the name of Jesus is also done. The bottom line is that the name/names in which we are baptized is not as important as the recognition that baptism identifies us with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, our Savior. We are buried with Him and risen to walk with Him in newness of life.

    I hope this helps a little.
     
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  8. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Christian:
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    Amen
     
  9. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    You have not given even one verse of scripture to support your position.
    Please support your your position with SCRIPTURE (Actual quotations from the Bible) not what you think scripture says.
     
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  10. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Kiwidan, you posted the following

    Show me one scripture when any Apostle baptised in anything other than Jesus name, and show me one scripture when Jesus told you or me to baptise in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. He didn't, he told them, them is his Apostles, and they know the truth, and as Peter said you must be baptised in the name of Jesus.

    This sounds like Jesus Oneness theology

    The "Jesus Only" movement, also known as Oneness Pentecostalism or oneness theology, teaches that there is only one God, but denies the tri-unity of God. In other words, oneness theology does not recognize the distinct persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It has various forms—some see Jesus Christ as the one God, who sometimes manifests Himself as the Father or the Holy Spirit. The core doctrine of Oneness Pentecostal / Jesus Only is that Jesus is the Father and Jesus is the Spirit. There is one God who reveals Himself in different "modes." (gotquestions.org)

    Is that what you believe?
     
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  11. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    No

    Jesus is the Son AND the Christ.
    The Father is not the Christ.
    The Holy Spirit is not the Christ.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  12. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
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    You use Matthew 28 and say you will believe Jesus, but Jesus was not speaking to you, he was speaking to his Apostles and told them to go out and baptise in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and gave them the Authority to teach all nations everything he had commanded, and the Apostles all went out and said baptise in the name of Jesus yet no one believes the Apostles.

    You are saying you believe Jesus words but you don't believe the Apostles who understood his words. They all say baptise in the name of Jesus and you say baptise in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit because Jesus told them.

    The Apostles knew what they were doing and saying because Jesus said tell them everything what i commanded you. Some might not like what i say but if im going to believe anyone who knows what Jesus was talking about im going to believe the Apostles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  13. wondering

    wondering Member

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    Well, what do you mean?????
    Didn't JESUS KNOW what He was talking about?

    You know, we DO base our faith on what the apostles and writers of the New Testament said.
    1 John 1:1-4 (5)

    This is absolutely true. But when we have Jesus saying something and the Apostles SEEMING to say something differently, we should STOP and try to figure out why the difference exists.

    You can't understand the difference between being baptized in the name of Jesus and the formula used.
    I've ALWAYS heard In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
    In Protestant churches and in Liturgical churches, such as the Catholic church.

    I think you're limiting God too much. I think you've put Him into a box. He won't STAY in a box.
    Think about it...
     
  14. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    There is only one name where someone can recieve the Father the Son and the Spirit, and that one name is Jesus.
     
  15. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    You need to show from SCRIPTURE where you got that.

    Here, I'll do it for you:

    Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

    Act 8:16 for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
    Act 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Now: Explain why you think that the the apostles, who were commanded by JESUS to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," didn't do what JESUS commanded them to do.

    Explain why you think the apostles did not obey the LORD JESUS.

    And if they refused to obey Jesus specific command, they how could they be Jesus' apostles??

    Could it possibly be that the words; "baptize in the name of Jesus" was the way they referred to baptizing "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"???
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  16. wondering

    wondering Member

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    I don't get it Kiwidan.

    Is Jesus also the Father and the Holy Ghost?
    Is the Father also Jesus and the Holy Ghost?
    Is the Holy Ghost also Jesus and the Father?

    Is God ONE with three person IN HIM?
    Or is he three different persons???
     
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  17. wondering

    wondering Member

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    Oh. And please answer Jim Parker at his post no. 215.
    I'd also like to know that.

    The Apostles baptized in the name of Jesus and not John - like I've been trying to explain to you.
    But WHERE IN SCRIPTURE does it say HOW they baptized, (the FORM they used)???
     
  18. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Jesus said, if you have seen me you have seen the Father, Jesus said he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come.

    John 10:27-30
    My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.”

    Notice "I and the Father are one" That being the case it is not wrong to baptise in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.
     
  19. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    I said the Apostles all went out and said baptise in the name of Jesus yet no one believes the Apostles and you say in big writing show scripture. Here is records of people being baptised into Jesus. And Peter commanding it, with all the Apostles who with him, no Apostles argued with Peter he spoke on behalf.

    Both Peter and Paul referring to being baptised in the name of Jesus.

    Paul said,
    “John’s baptism" was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
     
  20. Wrg1405

    Wrg1405 Member

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    Sadly he will not, he seems to have a paradigm that he can't shift. Probably because he doesn't want shift it.

    We can all be like that because it's better what we have come to believe in what we have been taught rather than truly research "What is it I believe and why"

    We need to be Berean
     
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