What Is Baptism?

[JLB]

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19

• The Name of Jesus incorporates all Three members of the Godhead, as the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

The fullness of Baptism includes all three expressions, just as the fullness of the Godhead includes all Three:
Father, Word and Spirit.

The three different Baptism's in the Bible are:

1. We are baptized into Christ, by the Spirit. [This occurs when one believes; born again]
2. A disciple baptizes us in water.
3. Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Paul teaches us this from the old testament types.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2

1. baptized into Moses - Into Christ:
2. in the cloud - the Holy Spirit
3. in the sea - Water

Remember the cloud [by day] was a fire [by night]: The Holy Spirit and fire is one baptism, not two.




JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

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[King Dan of Great the 1st]

It seems, as scripture says, whoever believes in Jesus should recieve the Holy Spirit. Faith through belief saves.

I think being baptised in Jesus is a spiritual baptism its not acturally literal, believing in his birth death and ressurection, thats spiritual water and spirit.

But if water is available is also good to be baptised.

The will of the Father is believing in the one he sent and we love one another and walk in peace with fellow believers, so no arguing and only correcting each other if we go off path or start acting immoral.

?

 

[Nathan]

I had to pull out of this for the weekend, but its still a subject that is strong in my heart. Plus, I see that things have cooled down, so maybe we can talk some more about it?

Here is a question. When the Bible uses the word baptism(in any of its forms) is it always speaking about physically going into water?

 

[Jim Parker]

Here is a question. When the Bible uses the word baptism(in any of its forms) is it always speaking about physically going into water?

No. Jesus used the word baptism to refer to His crucifixion. (Mar 10:38; Mar 10:39; Luk 12:50)
But, in the NT, when baptism is used to refer to what a new believer does, it was always with reference to physically going into water.

 

[Nathan]

No. Jesus used the word baptism to refer to His crucifixion. (Mar 10:38; Mar 10:39; Luk 12:50)
But, in the NT, when baptism is used to refer to what a new believer does, it was always with reference to physically going into water.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is by water?

 

[Jim Parker]

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is by water?

Did I say that?
Did anyone say that?
Is the Holy Spirit actually water?

 

[Nathan]

Did I say that?
Did anyone say that?
Is the Holy Spirit actually water?

I think we are confused by each others statements.

I asked the question because it seemed like you indicated that each time the NT refers to what happens to a believer, it has to do with water. I know that is not what you said verbatim, but its what I was seeing - hence the question.

A new believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit - which I do not believe is equivalent to going into water. So, why do we think a new believer being baptized in the name of Jesus is equivalent to going into water - why could it not be like how they are baptized into the Holy Spirit?

 

[WIP]

I asked the question because it seemed like you indicated that each time the NT refers to what happens to a believer,

I thought he wrote, "what a believe does," not, "what happens to a believer."

 

[Nathan]

I thought he wrote, "what a believe does," not, "what happens to a believer."

Right, I think that's where the confusion was. A believer is always spoken of being baptized - not baptizing themselves - so even water baptism is something that 'happens to' a believer.

 

[WIP]

Right, I think that's where the confusion was. A believer is always spoken of being baptized - not baptizing themselves - so even water baptism is something that 'happens to' a believer.

I see your point but doesn't the believer have to submit himself to be baptized?

 

[Nathan]

I see your point but doesn't the believer have to submit himself to be baptized?

I think that is what we have to come to view it as.

I believe water baptism - all baptism - is a desire of the believer. I believe it was turned into an 'ordinance' or 'command'.

Submission has the connotation of doing something whether you really want to or not.

 

[Jim Parker]

A new believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit - which I do not believe is equivalent to going into water.

So, why do we think a new believer being baptized in the name of Jesus is equivalent to going into water - why could it not be like how they are baptized into the Holy Spirit?

Because scripture clearly demonstrates that the baptism in water and the baptism in the Holy Spirit are two different events.
Baptism, as described by Paul at Romans 6:3-4 is baptism in water.

In the story of Peter preaching to the household of Cornelius, (Acts 10) the people were baptized in the Holy Spirit and then Baptized in water.
Act 10:44 While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
(That's baptism in the Holy Spirit.)
Act 10:47-48 Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
.(That's baptism in water.)
Other examples of the baptism in water and in the Holy Spirit being two different events are found at Acts 8:14-17 and at Acts 19: 5-6.

iakov the fool

 

[Nathan]

I think that is what we have to come to view it as.

I believe water baptism - all baptism - is a desire of the believer. I believe it was turned into an 'ordinance' or 'command'.

Submission has the connotation of doing something whether you really want to or not.

Much like this;

Exo 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Turned into this;

Jhn 9:14-17
Now it was a Sabbath day when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. So the Pharisees again asked him how he had received his sight. And he said to them, “He put mud on my eyes, and I washed, and I see.” Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others said, “How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?” And there was a division among them. So they said again to the blind man, “What do you say about him, since he has opened your eyes?” He said, “He is a prophet.”

 

[Nathan]

Because scripture clearly demonstrates that the baptism in water and the baptism in the Holy Spirit are two different events.
Baptism, as described by Paul at Romans 6:3-4 is baptism in water.

In the story of Peter preaching to the household of Cornelius, (Acts 10) the people were baptized in the Holy Spirit and then Baptized in water.
Act 10:44 While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
(That's baptism in the Holy Spirit.)
Act 10:47-48 Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
.(That's baptism in water.)
Other examples of the baptism in water and in the Holy Spirit being two different events are found at Acts 8:14-17 and at Acts 19: 5-6.

iakov the fool

I agree they are separate things. What I am saying is the same way we are baptized into the Holy Spirit can also be the way we are baptized into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Why turn it into a ritual, like the pharisees did many of the things of God?

What I am saying, is I can baptize someone in the name of the Father without having a drop of water present. Its possible.

We do not equate baptism in the Spirit the same as baptism in water. Why do we equate baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit the same as water?

 

[Jim Parker]

I believe water baptism - all baptism - is a desire of the believer. I believe it was turned into an 'ordinance' or 'command'.

Nobody "turned it into an 'ordinance' or 'command'. It was originally commanded by Jesus.(Mat 28:18-20)
If you are Jesus' disciple then you do what He commanded. (Jhn 14:15)
If you don't want to do what He commanded then you are not His disciple. ( Luk 6:46)
It's really that simple.

I'm curious. Why do you have such a problem with water baptism?

iakov the fool

 

[Nathan]

Nobody "turned it into an 'ordinance' or 'command'. It was originally commanded by Jesus.(Mat 28:18-20)
If you are Jesus' disciple then you do what He commanded. (Jhn 14:15)
If you don't want to do what He commanded then you are not His disciple. ( Luk 6:46)
It's really that simple.

I'm curious. Why do you have such a problem with water baptism?

iakov the fool

What I am saying is I do not believe Jesus was speaking of dunking people in water while reciting "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". If that was the case, we would read it as such elsewhere. I fully believe that Jesus was specifically speaking of baptizing them, in the same manner we are baptized in the Spirit(not the same thing of course), in the name of the Father, and the name of the Son, and the name of the Holy Spirit.

I have zero problem with water baptism. I think any believer in Christ will want to wholeheartedly - without anyone telling them they need to be.

 

[Jim Parker]

What I am saying is the same way we are baptized into the Holy Spirit can also be the way we are baptized into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Please clarify.

Why turn it into a ritual, like the pharisees did many of the things of God?

Jesus commanded the Church to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was not a Pharisee and He didn't fabricate a ritual.
Many churches treat baptism as a ritual but that does not change the fact that Jesus instituted Baptism as a required act for all Believers.
The devil has done yeoman's work in trying to make everything the church does appear to be empty ritual and many people have been deceived by that notion.

 

[Jim Parker]

What I am saying is I do not believe Jesus was speaking of dunking people in water while reciting "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".

Then you are mistaken. That is exactly what He was talking about.

If that was the case, we would read it as such elsewhere.

We DO read of it elsewhere. The book of Acts reports that new believers were consistently Baptized IN WATER.
(Like the Ethiopian Eunuch: Act 8:36 And as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What is to prevent my being baptized?")
I just posted 3 examples of baptism in water for you.
I don't understand why you don't get it.

 

[Nathan]

Please clarify.

Jesus commanded the Church to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was not a Pharisee and He didn't fabricate a ritual.
Many churches treat baptism as a ritual but that does not change the fact that Jesus instituted Baptism as a required act for all Believers.
The devil has done yeoman's work in trying to make everything the church does appear to be empty ritual and many people have been deceived by that notion.

Exactly! A ritual is a required act.....just saying........

If I were to 'baptize' someone in the "name of the Father", I would teach them all about who God the Father was - thereby transforming their mind and understanding of who God the Father is. After they were 'baptized' they would know who God the Father is. The same is for Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

That would be truly baptizing them in the 'name of'. Otherwise, Jesus would have said; "baptize them while saying in the name of....."

I'm stating we miss the point of what baptism really is. Its a transformation.