What is SAVED?

[atpollard]

So hypothetically, I believe that Jesus really is the son of God, he really died for my sin and he really rose from the dead, just like it says on the back of this fake $20 bill tract that I found.
So as long as I keep on believing this, even if I never do anything else, I am saved, I get to stay saved and I get to go to heaven ... Right?

[Back up your answer with scripture, because opinions are like bellybuttons ... everyone has one.]

 

[atpollard]

John 3:16-18 [NIV]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

So just putting my money where my mouth is and starting it off with a defense of the OP.

 

[Eugene]

Good morning Brother atpollard, the following is an excerpt from the pamphlet "Salvation with Security" I wrote at
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell...ds/salvation-with-security-parts-1-2-3.52236/

Ephesians 2:8, 9. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Now, if salvation is a gift, we can't do anything to earn it, but you read in (Philippians 2:12) that you must work out your own salvation with all fear and trembling. If God has provided this salvation as a free gift, how am I to add anything to that? There are many different ways that the word salvation is used in the Bible, such as safety from enemies, but I will limit this booklet's teaching to four aspects concerning salvation of the soul.

First - It is provisional. If you accept Jesus as your savior, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9-10) "If you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Second - When you become saved, it is at this time that you are born again and have overcome the penalty of sin, or become saved from the great white throne judgment and the resulting lake of fire. (Repeating John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Third - The working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells

us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Ephesians 4:22) “That ye put off concerning the former conversation (Manner of life) the old man who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;” (Colossians 3:9) “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds." We all have an old man we should count as dead that still wants to rule our lives. Even though the Apostle Paul knew he was saved, he experienced all kinds of problems with the old man trying to control his life. (Romans 7:14-25) states that (15) he ends up doing that which he hates. In (16,17), Paul realizes that if he agrees that the law is good, then it is no more him that was responsible, but sin that was in him. In looking for an answer he says (24) "Who shall deliver me?" (25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ"

(Romans 8:1). "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." And in (Romans 8:4) it says that "The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (Not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Fourth - We will be saved from this corrupt world. In (Romans 8:18-23), Paul states (18) "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (21) Because the creature (Creation) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." John states in (1 John 3:2) "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

 

[civilwarbuff]

John 3:16-18 [NIV]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

So just putting my money where my mouth is and starting it off with a defense of the OP.

Believe is not just said once, but several times in this chapter
John 3
15 That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For everyone that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.

22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.

26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with you beyond Jordan, to whom you bear witness, behold, the same baptizes, and all men come to him.

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29 He that has the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

31 He that comes from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: he that comes from heaven is above all.

32 And what he has seen and heard, that he testifies; and no man receives his testimony.

33 He that has received his testimony has set his seal to this that God is true.

34 For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand.

36 He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.
KJ2000

 

[atpollard]

Believe is not just said once, but several times in this chapter
John 3

If "belief" is nothing more than acknowledgement of the facts, then is "saved" anything more than 'eternal fire' insurance?

What is SAVED?

 

[Nathan]

"Saved" can actually mean different things. That's the problem with the English language.

The only time it is refereed to as past tense(which we generally always use it in) is in regards to sins hold on us.

Romans 6:6 - We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

I am FAR from being an English teacher, but we have to look at the adverbs(I think) that precede the word "saved" when understanding what it is.

So, take a passage and we can look at it?

 

[Nathan]

We are kind of covering "belief" in another thread, but to sum it up here - belief is the act of our will toward the Faith God gives us. Jesus referred to it as a "work", but that should never be interpreted as something done to earn.

Belief is the response of us to God. Being saved is the response of God to our belief.

 

[civilwarbuff]

"Saved" can actually mean different things. That's the problem with the English language.

The only time it is refereed to as past tense(which we generally always use it in) is in regards to sins hold on us.

Romans 6:6 - We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

I am FAR from being an English teacher, but we have to look at the adverbs(I think) that precede the word "saved" when understanding what it is.

So, take a passage and we can look at it?

I can't speak for anyone else but I say I AM saved not was saved (unless talking about the event itself) as that seems to imply it is not current......Just me......

 

[atpollard]

Good morning Brother atpollard, the following is an excerpt from the pamphlet "Salvation with Security" I wrote at
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell...ds/salvation-with-security-parts-1-2-3.52236/

You and I agree on the theory ... but what about where the rubber meets the road?
I mean, there is a lot of focus on bearing fruit and overcoming sin and renewing our minds, but we all remember going through a season where "... and sometimes the bear gets you". I mean how do we make sense of the senseless? The person who led me to Christ (when I was an atheist gang member), later abandoned his wife and children to become a gay activist. Everyone knows of at least one pastor who just throws in the towel and walks away from God.

What happened to “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." (Matthew 7:18) and "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion" (Philippians 1:6) ? Yet we see that either a bad tree did bear good fruit, or a good work begun was not carried to completion.

So, What is SAVED?
The reality seems less clear than the theory.

 

[atpollard]

"Saved" can actually mean different things. That's the problem with the English language.
The only time it is refereed to as past tense(which we generally always use it in) is in regards to sins hold on us.

Romans 6:6 - We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

I am FAR from being an English teacher, but we have to look at the adverbs(I think) that precede the word "saved" when understanding what it is.
So, take a passage and we can look at it?

MOST topics here at some point seem to end up about OSAS vs OSNAS.
Listening from the sidelines, I have no clue what is meant from post to post by the "S" on each of those acronyms. Is 'saved' not going to the lake of fire? Is our eternal destiny something in flux (or not in flux)? Is there anything more than that?

How can we debate something that is so undefined?
So this is about exploring what if anything, the expression so frequently debated "saved" means so the question of whether or not losing it makes any sense.
Isn't it strange that we can all provide clear verses on how to get it, but far less clarity on what "it" is that we have gained and must take care not to lose (or which God protects us from losing).

So don't let the word 'saved' trip you up. After I have believed, what is it that I have ... so what, who cares, how is anything different?

 

[Eugene]

.
The experience of salvation is much dependent on our individual faith. Job, that man who God proclaimed perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil in Job 1:1 came to this point of being overcome with suffering in Job 3:3, Let the day perish wherein I was born. Was Job saved?

Elijah said it this way in 1Ki 19:14. And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. Oh yes, Elijah was saved.

Paul needed to pray for comfort of his trial? God’s reply: it’s good for you Paul, Rom 8:28.
2 Cor 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2 Cor 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2 Cor 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
Reading Paul's writing we become aware of what salvation really consists of. Robbed. beaten,& imprisoned?
Yet in all this Paul says in 1 Cor 11:1. Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Our quest ought to be seeking God’s perfect will for us, and as His work in progress we have opportunity to actually be joint heirs with Jesus.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF so be that we suffer (endure)with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Brother atpollard, there is going to be a select portion of the Church taken to be the very bride of Christ; all will not qualify.

 

[WIP]

So what does it mean to believe on the Lord, Jesus? Does it mean a fleeting moment in time when I might believe even though I may no longer believe? Or does it mean something much deeper? Consider John 3:16-18 that was referenced in the OP.

6 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Whosoever believes is not condemned. It doesn't say believed (past tense) but believes (present tense). Whoever does not believe... This again is present tense suggesting that past believing is of no value, right?

 

[WIP]

Romans 1:18-32 seems to show us how God can and does turn over to death those who reject Him even after knowing Him.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Whosoever believes is not condemned. It doesn't say believed (past tense) but believes (present tense). Whoever does not believe... This again is present tense suggesting that past believing is of no value, right?

Where is a Greek linguist when we need one?

 

[atpollard]

Where is a Greek linguist when we need one?

Greek linguists might be like Rabbis ... if we got 3 of them together, they would give us 4 opinions.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Romans 1:18-32 seems to show us how God can and does turn over to death those who reject Him even after knowing Him.

I agree, but it sounds as though he is talking about OT Jews who even knowing what God had done for them turned their backs on Him. Reading on to chapter 2 the first 4 verses seem to be referring to man in general not specifically believers. There were many men who knew God, especially in the OT, that rejected Him and turned away. Is there any thing here that makes us think Paul is speaking of NT believers only?

 

[Nathan]

MOST topics here at some point seem to end up about OSAS vs OSNAS.
Listening from the sidelines, I have no clue what is meant from post to post by the "S" on each of those acronyms. Is 'saved' not going to the lake of fire? Is our eternal destiny something in flux (or not in flux)? Is there anything more than that?

How can we debate something that is so undefined?
So this is about exploring what if anything, the expression so frequently debated "saved" means so the question of whether or not losing it makes any sense.
Isn't it strange that we can all provide clear verses on how to get it, but far less clarity on what "it" is that we have gained and must take care not to lose (or which God protects us from losing).

So don't let the word 'saved' trip you up. After I have believed, what is it that I have ... so what, who cares, how is anything different?

I like your thought process. I think that a LOT of people do not know what they are talking about when using the word "saved". Which is why I think you have to not single out the word in a passage, but look at the words surrounding it.

Back up for a min and think about the BIG picture. God singled out a group of people to form a lineage. From the beginning, even before this formation, God showed us that something had to be done to "please" Him when sin is committed. Even beginning with Adam and Eve.

So through out history, the people He decided to carry on the line, were constantly having to give sacrifices and offerings. They never for a minute thought that once a sacrifice was done then it covered everything else they did. The Gospel(good news) to them was that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, and so they no longer had to continually offer it. They were "saved" from their sins. They only had to believe it by Faith. This NEVER meant that a one time 'acknowledgement' or 'profession' of this belief secured them, any more than they believed that each time they sinned the process started over.

The belief was that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, that God is pleased with Him, and that all who are found in Him are not only saved from the slavery to sin, but will be saved when He comes again.

To the Gentiles, this Gospel(good news) was they are included in this deal. lol.

 

[Nathan]

So don't let the word 'saved' trip you up. After I have believed, what is it that I have ... so what, who cares, how is anything different?

What you have is Faith. That's it. lol. Does not sound like much, but its true and worth VERY much. Not only this, but God replenishes this Faith as you need. After all, He gave it to you. Think of it as a ticket........no, seriously think of it as a ticket. I have never been on an all inclusive vacation, but I hear its quite unique. You pay one fee up front, and you get to do anything you want over and over. My friend loves going on cruises because he just sits by the ice cream machine and eats it all day long.

However, if you never take the ticket(unbelief) or you decide to sell/trade it for something else, then how can you go on this vacation?

It doesn't trip me up at all personally. I only think that it trips people up who want to believe something instead of just believing what God tells them.

 

[reba]

Once in a while the Amplified Bible come through
John 3:16Amplified Bible (AMP)
16 “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts clings to relies on) Him [as Savior] shall not perish, --- come to destruction ,be lost--- but have eternal ( everlasting ) life.

 

[JLB]

So hypothetically, I believe that Jesus really is the son of God, he really died for my sin and he really rose from the dead, just like it says on the back of this fake $20 bill tract that I found.
So as long as I keep on believing this, even if I never do anything else, I am saved, I get to stay saved and I get to go to heaven ... Right?

[Back up your answer with scripture, because opinions are like bellybuttons ... everyone has one.]

I really don't want to comment about what is on a fake $20.00 bill.

If we are going to discuss being saved then let's refer to the Author of our salvation, and the Gospel He preached, and the things He taught about His Gospel that He preached.

Then we can define the words He used, to clarify any misunderstandings that may have resulted from the cultural differences of the time He lived and preached the Gospel, and the post modern meaning of those words today.


From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17


Jesus sent out His disciples to preach this Gospel message that He preached.

Mark records His words as:

7 And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. 8 He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— 9 but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics. 10 Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. 11 And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
12 So they went out and preached that people should repent. 13 And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them. Mark 6:7-12


Matthew records it this way:

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. Matthew 10:5-9

• The Gospel: Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The command of the Gospel is repent.
That is what must be obeyed, if you believe.


Believing that Jesus existed is not the believing condition. [Demons believe this]
Believing as in acknowledging He died on the cross is not the believing condition. [Demons believe this]

• Obeying the Gospel that command: Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Can we discuss what Repent means?



JLB