What is SAVED?

[JLB]

I believe if you study the word "anointed" in the Hebrew it means "one with spread wings" hence the cherub that covereth", not anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Do you understand what Christ means?




JLB

 

[JLB]

§Why?
If God picked whom He would save, the atonement would be limited to those God picked to be saved.
Right?

Yes, but I can fix that right now, with just a couple of clicks.


For God so loved the world the predestined ones that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever He grants to believe believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


I really hope this clears up any confusion about what the bible "really" says.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

How about we just say Bible Believer, instead of non-osas?



JLB

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[GodsGrace]

Is that really what He said? We only need the faith of a mustard seed? The way I see it, He was telling us that if we had just the faith of a mustard seed we could move mountains by mere thought. I see Him telling us just how little faith we really have. Sort of like the 10-Commandments. They don't just show us how we are expected to live. They also show us how far away from perfection we really are and just how much we truly need our Savior.

I think Jesus defined the standard. The fact that we are incapable of achieving the standard does not give us an excuse or way out. This is why we so desperately need our Savior.

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 NKJV
He didn't should or might or may. He said shall.

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” Matthew 19:21 NKJV
He said to be perfect we must follow Him. Not just trail along behind but follow Him in complete submission and surrender.

My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. James 1:2-8 NKJV
Lacking nothing, no doubting. Nada, zilch, zero doubt. That is the standard.

Hi WIP
You have very high standards.
They don't scare me because I've been Christian many years and really have never had a problem with Christianity.

I shudder to think, however, of a new Christian reading along and hearing how perfect he must be. That new Christian will be "perfect" when the Holy Spirit tells him he has to be. WE cannot be the ones setting the standard. God will set the standard for each one of us. Do you suppose we are all exactly the same in our walk with God? Does that make any one of us of less value than the next? God loves all His children - those with little faith and those with a lot of faith and those with faith that runneth over.

As to the faith of a mustard seed:
Mathew 17:20

The disciples could not cure the son of a man that came to Jesus.
Jesus told the man to bring his son to Him, which the man did.
Jesus removed the demon from the son.

Jesus disciples asked Him why they cast out the demon.
Jesus told them because of the littleness of their faith...
FOR IF THEY HAD THE FAITH OF A MUSTARD SEED, they would be able to tell the mountain Move, and the mountain would Move.

So yes, apparently, according to Jesus, faith the size of a mustard seed is sufficient.


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[GodsGrace]

Here's more.

Now it happened as they journeyed on the road, that someone said to Him, “Lord, I will follow You wherever You go.” And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air havenests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” Then He said to another, “Follow Me.” But he said, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.” And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go andbid them farewell who are at my house.” But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:57-62 NKJV
Is He not saying that we are to give up this life and follow Him? Not just a little but completely and without reservation?

As a dog returns to his own vomit,
So a fool repeats his folly.
Proverbs 26:11 NKJV
Does this not say that when we look back to our old ways we are fools?

Of course if we look back we are fools.
Have you noticed my signature line by any chance??

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Let the dead bury their dead.
Because they have NO faith. The dead in spirit have no faith.

Are you saying we need a certain measure of faith or we're not saved??


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[GodsGrace]

And what about this? Can we love this life and God as God would have our love?
“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other." Matthew 6:24 NKJV

"He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." John 12:25 NKJV
How severe is Jesus saying hating this life intended to be?

Could you please tell me what John 12:25 means?

Thanks.


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[GodsGrace]

Yes, but I can fix that right now, with just a couple of clicks.


For God so loved the world the predestined ones that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever He grants to believe believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


I really hope this clears up any confusion about what the bible "really" says.



JLB

Many verses would have to be changed to accomodate certain beliefs.
I see this and I also see the use of the Greek as another method of twisting the meaning of a verse. As if those who translated from the Greek are too dumb to know how.

We all seem to make verses say what we want them to say.


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[JLB]

I also see the use of the Greek as another method of twisting the meaning of a verse.

Some refer to this as "lexicon gymnastics".




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Some refer to this as "lexicon gymnastics".




JLB

LOL
Funny but sad.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Yes.



Please share the scripture that teaches this.




JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

2 Corinthians 5:21 " For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
Romans 8:4 " that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit
Galatians 3:13 " Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree."

 

[dirtfarmer]

Do you understand what Christ means?




JLB

Christ(Christos) is the title given to Christ and means the anointed one.

In Ezekiel 28:14 the Hebrew word for "anointed is mimsah, which has the meaning of out stretched wings. It has nothing to do with anointing with oil by pouring over one's head, symbolic of being anointed by the Spirit.

In 1 Samuel we find the Saul the king was "anointed" by the prophet Samuel. Oil was poured over his head(anointed), which is a type of anointing by the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

Christ(Christos) is the title given to Christ and means the anointed one.

In Ezekiel 28:14 the Hebrew word for "anointed is mimsah, which has the meaning of out stretched wings. It has nothing to do with anointing with oil by pouring over one's head, symbolic of being anointed by the Spirit.

In 1 Samuel we find the Saul the king was "anointed" by the prophet Samuel. Oil was poured over his head(anointed), which is a type of anointing by the Holy Spirit.

Angels were anointed by God and have wings, just as the Angel of the Lord, which is a reference to the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
Malachi 4:2


and again

He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
Psalm 91:1-4


Lucifer, an angel is also a son of God and is described as perfect in his ways, and was anointed.

You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:14-15


Christ is the anointed One.
An angel is an anointed one.

The Angel of the Lord is the Son of God.
An angel is a son of God.

Adam was created as a son of God.
An angel is created as a son of God.


Here is how Adam was created:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7


We will become sons of God like the angels and be equal to them after we are resurrected.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

Angels were anointed by God and have wings, just as the Angel of the Lord, which is a reference to the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
Malachi 4:2


and again

He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
Psalm 91:1-4


Lucifer, an angel is also a son of God and is described as perfect in his ways, and was anointed.

You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:14-15


Christ is the anointed One.
An angel is an anointed one.

The Angel of the Lord is the Son of God.
An angel is a son of God.

Adam was created as a son of God.
An angel is created as a son of God.


Here is how Adam was created:

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7


We will become sons of God like the angels and be equal to them after we are resurrected.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Edited.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states that we as believers will judge the angels: " Know ye not that we shall judge angels, how much more things that pertain to this life?"
Hebrews 1:13-14 " But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them that shall be heirs of salvation?

We are heirs and co-heirs with Christ according to scripture, is Jesus Christ only equal to angels or is he their superior?

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Edited.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states that we as believers will judge the angels: " Know ye not that we shall judge angels, how much more things that pertain to this life?"
Hebrews 1:13-14 " But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them that shall be heirs of salvation?

We are heirs and co-heirs with Christ according to scripture, is Jesus Christ only equal to angels or is he their superior?

Jesus Christ is the Lord God who created both angels and man.

He is referred to as the Angel of the Lord in His pre-incarnate state.

Three different scriptures referring to three different manifestations of the Angel of the Lord being referred to as God.

And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:2,6

and again

21 When the Angel of the Lord appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
Judges 13:21-22

and again

11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her:
“Behold, you are with child, and you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has heard your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild man; his hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him. and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”
13 Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, “Have I also here seen Him who sees me?” Genesis 16:11-13

Then The Lord Himself, the Spirit of Christ, through Zechariah also refers to the Angel of the Lord as God.

In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. Zechariah 12:8


Then the writer of the book of Hebrews weighs in on the subject:

For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”?

and again -

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5,8



JLB

 

[JLB]

1 Corinthians 6:3 states that we as believers will judge the angels: " Know ye not that we shall judge angels, how much more things that pertain to this life?"

Which angels is Paul referring to:

The angels who were cast down to hell, during the days of Noah?
Lucifer and his angels?
Holy angels that are ministering spirits?


It is my understanding that we will become equal to the angels, if we are counted as worthy to attain the resurrection, in which we will be declared as sons of God, like angels are called sons of God.

No longer sons of God by faith, but sons of God like the angels; having received our promise that we are hoping for.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

Which angels is Paul referring to:

The angels who were cast down to hell, during the days of Noah?
Lucifer and his angels?
Holy angels that are ministering spirits?


It is my understanding that we will become equal to the angels, if we are counted as worthy to attain the resurrection, in which we will be declared as sons of God, like angels are called sons of God.

No longer sons of God by faith, but sons of God like the angels; having received our promise that we are hoping for.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Can angels be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ as believers can?

 

[WIP]

Hi WIP
You have very high standards.
They don't scare me because I've been Christian many years and really have never had a problem with Christianity.

I shudder to think, however, of a new Christian reading along and hearing how perfect he must be. That new Christian will be "perfect" when the Holy Spirit tells him he has to be. WE cannot be the ones setting the standard. God will set the standard for each one of us. Do you suppose we are all exactly the same in our walk with God? Does that make any one of us of less value than the next? God loves all His children - those with little faith and those with a lot of faith and those with faith that runneth over.

As to the faith of a mustard seed:
Mathew 17:20

The disciples could not cure the son of a man that came to Jesus.
Jesus told the man to bring his son to Him, which the man did.
Jesus removed the demon from the son.

Jesus disciples asked Him why they cast out the demon.
Jesus told them because of the littleness of their faith...
FOR IF THEY HAD THE FAITH OF A MUSTARD SEED, they would be able to tell the mountain Move, and the mountain would Move.

So yes, apparently, according to Jesus, faith the size of a mustard seed is sufficient.


.

You keep saying that I set the standard when that is not true. When I read Scritpture there are many things I find hard but I don't skip over those things or try to find ways to soften His word because it may seem hard to swallow. I just know that I can trust and take comfort that Jesus is at my side.

You seem to be wanting to debate me about this when I was just trying to understand your position. I'll humbly bow out. I'm not good at debating.

 

[Jim Parker]

If God picked whom He would save, the atonement would be limited to those God picked to be saved.
Right?

Right!
And whom did that "picking" include?

1Jo 2:1-2 (RSV) My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin;
but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
and he is the expiation for our sins,
and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

So, the group of people whom God picked for the removal of their sin included everybody.

(It's fun to write with color. It's like having Crayons. Makes me feel like a 2nd Lieutenant all over again!)

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[GodsGrace]

You keep saying that I set the standard when that is not true. When I read Scritpture there are many things I find hard but I don't skip over those things or try to find ways to soften His word because it may seem hard to swallow. I just know that I can trust and take comfort that Jesus is at my side.

You seem to be wanting to debate me about this when I was just trying to understand your position. I'll humbly bow out. I'm not good at debating.

I didn't say YOU set the standard.
God sets the standards.
I said you have very high standards. That's different.

 

[GodsGrace]

Right!
And whom did that "picking" include?

1Jo 2:1-2 (RSV) My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin;
but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
and he is the expiation for our sins,
and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

So, the group of people whom God picked for the removal of their sin included everybody.

(It's fun to write with color. It's like having Crayons. Makes me feel like a 2nd Lieutenant all over again!)

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

Yes. You've become very colorful lately.
I like it.
It helps those reading along to read the correct words in the correct manner...

Keep up the good work Lieutenant!!
LOL