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Bible Study WHAT KIND OF FAITH DO WE HAVE?

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Chopper

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James 2:17 "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."


Recently, I have been counseling a number of precious Souls concerning tragedy in their lives. I'm speaking of suicide confronting about 3 people, desperate childhood experiences that effect their every day life as grown ups. And certain events that defeat God's Children trying to live a positive Christian life today.

I feel that there is an answer to all of this in the "faith" that we think that we have. Let me explain....The above Scripture is my foundation to this instruction.

There are two kinds of faith. One is called "historical faith" and the other is called "biblical faith". The difference is that historical faith is simply trusting that a chair will hold me if I sit down on it. Biblical faith starts out as a gift from God to be used as we trust in the active works of the Son of God dying and shedding His own Blood on the cruel old cross for our sins remission.

Biblical faith will produce works of righteousness, where as historical faith cannot produce righteous works.

Now, having said the preceding, there are those of whom I've counseled in the past that because of their poor attitudes toward their present life in general, I have found that, what they believe is biblical faith, is nothing but historical faith because their faith is dead, that's right! They have been deceived by modern evangelism in it's presentation of a luvy, duvy, warm and fuzzy relationship with a non biblical Jesus.

Today, in many watered down presentations of the gospel, folk are simply making an empty profession of a California beach buddy called Jesus. The biblical Jesus is the Master Owner of those making a biblical approach to God for their Salvation thru Jesus Christ.

Repentance is an important key to an approach to Salvation. If a person is not willing to turn over their lives to be controlled by the Master Jesus Christ, and to turn away from all their sins, they are not worthy of God's Salvation. Faith? The real faith has no problem with becoming a servant to Christ Jesus, turning from their sins, and living a new life as a new creature, born a new.

Now, I'm going to be brutishly clear about biblical Salvation. I have preached & taught for 40 years, "Do you know for sure that you are biblically saved?" You would be surprised at the number of folk who thought they were true believers in Jesus, only to be convicted by the Holy Spirit under correct teaching, that they were not really saved. Their lives changed as a result.

I've counseled those who are all gloom and doom, living defeated so-called Christian lives. So, where's the "works"? True faith produces works. I find it simple. No works = no faith. No faith = no works....James makes a great statement...
James 1:2 "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
1:3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.

1:4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing."

As I continue this trumpet call from a human historical faith to a Holy Spirit energized faith that produces righteous works. The following statement by a Church Father John Gill says a lot of what I'm getting at....
"Faith is an inward principle in the heart; an hidden thing, and cannot be seen and known but by external acts; and where it is right, it is operative, and shows itself by works, which is not practicable in those who have none."

Look folks, I'm not bashing people who say they believe in Jesus but have problems with showing good works. The opposite may be true. They have been trapped by what we call "Easy Believeism" I was born in 1940 and became born again in 1974. It seems to me that the Baby Boomers generation became deceived by Satan's easy believeism. As a result, that was a false gospel. Today, many believe in Jesus BUT....James 2:19 "You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!"

Please heed this warning. Does your belief in Jesus produce works of righteousness? Or does your belief in Jesus produce doom and gloom? Evaluate your position with Jesus Christ. If in doubt, Ladies, ask Reba how to be biblically saved. Men, ask my friend Eugene. There are others that can help you, now is the time to be sure.

.
 
James 2:17 "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."


Recently, I have been counseling a number of precious Souls concerning tragedy in their lives. I'm speaking of suicide confronting about 3 people, desperate childhood experiences that effect their every day life as grown ups. And certain events that defeat God's Children trying to live a positive Christian life today.

I feel that there is an answer to all of this in the "faith" that we think that we have. Let me explain....The above Scripture is my foundation to this instruction.

There are two kinds of faith. One is called "historical faith" and the other is called "biblical faith". The difference is that historical faith is simply trusting that a chair will hold me if I sit down on it. Biblical faith starts out as a gift from God to be used as we trust in the active works of the Son of God dying and shedding His own Blood on the cruel old cross for our sins remission.

Biblical faith will produce works of righteousness, where as historical faith cannot produce righteous works.

Now, having said the preceding, there are those of whom I've counseled in the past that because of their poor attitudes toward their present life in general, I have found that, what they believe is biblical faith, is nothing but historical faith because their faith is dead, that's right! They have been deceived by modern evangelism in it's presentation of a luvy, duvy, warm and fuzzy relationship with a non biblical Jesus.

Today, in many watered down presentations of the gospel, folk are simply making an empty profession of a California beach buddy called Jesus. The biblical Jesus is the Master Owner of those making a biblical approach to God for their Salvation thru Jesus Christ.

Repentance is an important key to an approach to Salvation. If a person is not willing to turn over their lives to be controlled by the Master Jesus Christ, and to turn away from all their sins, they are not worthy of God's Salvation. Faith? The real faith has no problem with becoming a servant to Christ Jesus, turning from their sins, and living a new life as a new creature, born a new.

Now, I'm going to be brutishly clear about biblical Salvation. I have preached & taught for 40 years, "Do you know for sure that you are biblically saved?" You would be surprised at the number of folk who thought they were true believers in Jesus, only to be convicted by the Holy Spirit under correct teaching, that they were not really saved. Their lives changed as a result.

I've counseled those who are all gloom and doom, living defeated so-called Christian lives. So, where's the "works"? True faith produces works. I find it simple. No works = no faith. No faith = no works....James makes a great statement...
James 1:2 "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
1:3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.

1:4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing."

As I continue this trumpet call from a human historical faith to a Holy Spirit energized faith that produces righteous works. The following statement by a Church Father John Gill says a lot of what I'm getting at....
"Faith is an inward principle in the heart; an hidden thing, and cannot be seen and known but by external acts; and where it is right, it is operative, and shows itself by works, which is not practicable in those who have none."

Look folks, I'm not bashing people who say they believe in Jesus but have problems with showing good works. The opposite may be true. They have been trapped by what we call "Easy Believeism" I was born in 1940 and became born again in 1974. It seems to me that the Baby Boomers generation became deceived by Satan's easy believeism. As a result, that was a false gospel. Today, many believe in Jesus BUT....James 2:19 "You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!"

Please heed this warning. Does your belief in Jesus produce works of righteousness? Or does your belief in Jesus produce doom and gloom? Evaluate your position with Jesus Christ. If in doubt, Ladies, ask Reba how to be biblically saved. Men, ask my friend Eugene. There are others that can help you, now is the time to be sure.

.
Romans 10:10 it is easy so easy a child will get saved before a adult . not sure exactly what easy believism . works follow salvation
 
Now, I'm going to be brutishly clear about biblical Salvation. I have preached & taught for 40 years, "Do you know for sure that you are biblically saved?" You would be surprised at the number of folk who thought they were true believers in Jesus, only to be convicted by the Holy Spirit under correct teaching, that they were not really saved. Their lives changed as a result.

I've counseled those who are all gloom and doom, living defeated so-called Christian lives. So, where's the "works"? True faith produces works. I find it simple. No works = no faith. No faith = no works....James makes a great statement...
agreed
 
Romans 10:10 it is easy so easy a child will get saved before a adult . not sure exactly what easy believism . works follow salvation

Hello Ezra and your forever Wife. I don't remember who coined the phrase "Easy Believeism" but is a false gospel with no repentance, no Jesus Who is a Master and so on. It's really only "believe in Jesus, and you'll be saved".
 
Hello Ezra and your forever Wife. I don't remember who coined the phrase "Easy Believeism" but is a false gospel with no repentance, no Jesus Who is a Master and so on. It's really only "believe in Jesus, and you'll be saved".

I would maybe say it's a "believe in the historical man named Jesus, that He died, and rose again, and you'll be saved".

It's amazing to think so many people believe in such a Jesus, yet do not believe He set them free.
 
Like Chopper I have repeatedly run into this strand of, purported Christianity and it seems to run the gambit of the denominations. They have been from Charismatic to the basic Baptist to the fundamental Catholic. It is scarry the number of them.
 
I would maybe say it's a "believe in the historical man named Jesus, that He died, and rose again, and you'll be saved".

It's amazing to think so many people believe in such a Jesus, yet do not believe He set them free.

Over the years, what I find hard to believe is the quacks that teach a bunch of junk to gullible folk, and then think their saved.
 
This will be a good thread. I have two questions.

What is the antithesis of faith?

Does real faith require a response from us?
 
I would maybe say it's a "believe in the historical man named Jesus, that He died, and rose again, and you'll be saved".

It's amazing to think so many people believe in such a Jesus, yet do not believe He set them free.

Let me add to that...
Romans 10:5 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
"Easy Believeism"....I think....doesn't really believe from their heart.
To be honest I don't think one can believe from their heart unless God grants them the ability.

John 6:65 Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."
 
Let me add to that...
Romans 10:5 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
"Easy Believeism"....I think....doesn't really believe from their heart.
To be honest I don't think one can believe from their heart unless God grants them the ability.

John 6:65 Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."

Your absolutely right. There is good reason why no one can believe from the heart unless God gives them the ability because then, salvation, would be based on what someone did or did not do. We might say someone 'does' the work of God by believing - but we know this is only because God gives them that ability. So ALL 'work' of salvation is of God.

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this[faith] is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

brackets added by me for clarification.
 
Over the years, what I find hard to believe is the quacks that teach a bunch of junk to gullible folk, and then think their saved.
just watch t,v you will find those who tickle ears
Hebrews 2
2 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. other translations read drift away .. the word slip means to leak out like a leaky keg of drink . i fear many have slipped /forgot or turned away from
 
James 2:17 =Talk the talk but no walk the walk. Talk with no walk= No believe.

When the Son of Man returns will he find any faith?

Yes He will, Brother. Scripture says He's coming back for His Bride and that she will be spotless.

Now we all know that the church is not spotless at this time. That can only mean one thing. There is big changes coming to the church. His Words will not return unto Him void, He does have the power to make it happen...so it will.

Immediately the story of Ananias and Sapphira comes to mind. They died in church for lying and holding back money. When people start dying in church again, then the purity, holiness and reverential fear of God will return and She will become spotless.
 
just watch t,v you will find those who tickle ears
Hebrews 2
2 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. other translations read drift away .. the word slip means to leak out like a leaky keg of drink . i fear many have slipped /forgot or turned away from

You are so right Ezra. Actually, I can't stand TV preachers. They, IMO, are either, as you put it, tickling ears, teaching false doctrine, or strutting around on the platform filled with pride. AND fleecing the flock. Ugg!!
 
You are so right Ezra. Actually, I can't stand TV preachers. They, IMO, are either, as you put it, tickling ears, teaching false doctrine, or strutting around on the platform filled with pride. AND fleecing the flock. Ugg!!
the name it claim it sow a thousand dollar seed crowd drives me crazy . the writings of paul the perilous times the itchy ears was very much alive in paul day. history is repeating it self. the perilous times imo are increasing . all these things line up to end times events. didnt mean to hijack your thread ..
 
You are so right Ezra. Actually, I can't stand TV preachers. They, IMO, are either, as you put it, tickling ears, teaching false doctrine, or strutting around on the platform filled with pride. AND fleecing the flock. Ugg!!

Im a saved lost man. I think I have done well to keep striving and not last only a short time, no boast intended, but i called on the Lord a couple years ago and have got through so many obsticles along the way, I started with reading the scriptures directly after I called on the Lord, and watching christian TV that was all televangelists and mega church prosperity teachers then made my way out, I didn't get stuck in the trap because I didn't give up reading the scriptures and i tested them through the scriptures just as people test me through the scriptures and rebuke me like you did and i went back to the scriptures and found I was wrong.
 
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Hi Chopper,
Another term I've found for Easy Believism is Cheap Grace.
(just believe and all will be OK)

I do have a question for you.
I agree with all you say except I don't understand how you explained Historical Faith.

Here is what you said in the O.P.:

There are two kinds of faith. One is called "historical faith" and the other is called "biblical faith". The difference is that historical faith is simply trusting that a chair will hold me if I sit down on it. Biblical faith starts out as a gift from God to be used as we trust in the active works of the Son of God dying and shedding His own Blood on the cruel old cross for our sins remission.

I have been taught that faith is a MOVEMENT. If we have faith, we move and do something.
If I want to get to the 5th floor of a building, I have to STEP INTO the elevator and have FAITH that it will take me to the 5th floor.
If I DO NOT have faith, I will not step in.

As far as Biblical Faith, I would say that your saying that we are to trust in the "active work of the Son" would be the same as trusting in the grace of God?

Please comment.
 
wondering

I would like to give you my example about faith. I'm a 'water guy', so I'll use it for an analogy.

Historical faith is like a pond.
Biblical faith is like a stream.

Historical faith says, "here is this body of water, I have all the water I need"
Biblical faith says, "here is this flowing stream, I have all the water I need"

Difference is, like you made mention, one is moving and the other is stagnate. One is alive, the other is dead.

When we hold to historical faith we hold onto that which is known, and nothing else. We 'posses' the faith instead of letting it flow through us. Biblical faith is when God gives us continual 'faith' to live. Its not something we posses, but something that we receive - and flows out of us.

The number one example I see of true faith, is Peter walking on the water. Peter did not have the faith to do it, so he asked Jesus to tell him. Peter knew that unless the command came from Jesus, he could not walk on the water. So, the stream of faith started in Peter and he got out of the boat. The stream of faith kept flowing as Peter walked toward Jesus.

Then, when Peter doubted, he built a 'dam' for that stream of faith - and he began to sink. He 'stopped' believing that Jesus said he should walk on the water.

Good thing Peter had the sense to ask Jesus to save him when he doubted..... :)
 
Good for you Dan. I'm very proud of you because of this level of maturity that you've shown in this post. A few of us, your friends, were very concerned about where you were headed. I'm so very happy that you weren't offended at my rebuke....James 5:19 "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,
5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."

I Love You Dan.
Chopper
 
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