Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Lewis, Jan 16, 2011.
Are you seriously suggesting that people are saved ONLY by reading the KJV?
But that is only your opinion. Why should those words not be translated hell? Cant a word in the King James Bible have different meanings? Take heaven in Genesis 1:1 and the kingdom of heaven in Matthew 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Here the word "heaven" has different meanings, the same goes with the translation of hell in the KJV, it has different meanings and is correctly translated.
There were basically two groups of translators working on the NKJV. One half believed that the perverted 45 Alexandrian manuscripts, from which came the Roman Catholic Bibles and the modern perversions, were better than the manuscripts behind the King James. The other group believed the thousands of manuscripts supporting the King James were better. This is a big problem: No one believed that they held God's words in their hands, only a "better" or "worse" text! The translators believed they had something close, but not an accurate Bible.
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Mark 13:31)
It is a sad thing when a Bible translator doesn't even believe he has God's words in his hands. It sounds like they don't believe God kept His promise: Perhaps that is why some of them had no problem working on other perversions, both before and after working on the NKJV. This is so unlike the 54+ Bible men who faithfully translated the King James Bible from preserved manuscripts of God's words. The difference between the King James and the "New" King James is the difference between day and night.
I dont know how you can say that the NKJV is better than the KJV.
Those that say that debating which Bible is God's Word is divisive do not understand what the word division really is according to the King James Bible. It is sad to see that men have changed God's word and have not been diligent in wanting to hear what God wants to say.
"As a Christian I would rather be divided by truth than be united by error"
Because they are not what it means as they are two different places.
Bible is not written in English. Also, English is just 1 language in the entire world out of more than 3000+ spoken languages and KJV is just 1 translation out of 200+ translations.
I don't believe that the niv has been blessed by God. You can take that for what it is worth, and while you are at it take a look around you, the cup of iniquity is over full and the niv ain't helping a thing.
Well done, you've made a translation of the Bible a co-partner in the work of Salvation. That, BTW, is idolatry.
Scripture is NOT the Word of God, but inspired by God. Jesus Christ is the Word of God.
I believe that faith is required for salvation. By that I mean faith in God, and not faith in men.
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
What happens if what you are reading is not the word of God?
It will impact you faith in the word of God.
The same here, especially from my own experience.
Actually there are about 300 English translations. The question for a translation is what texts/manuscripts are used to produce it? why was it produced?
The difference between a ghost and a spirit is this, a ghost has inhabited a body, and a spirit has not. Jesus gave up the Ghost on the cross at Calvary, that is an important difference in my opinion.
"Holy Ghost" appears many times in the New Testament: Scan the Bible for requested Words and phrases
"Holy Spirit" only appears 3 times in the Old Testament and 4 times in the New Testament:
Scan the Bible for requested Words and phrases
Surely there is a difference of the terms here.
Not in the 1600s.
really? what of the term Holy Ghost? that is used in my kjv.
sheesh. you kjvo are as bad as the gentile pushers of using the isr(tankah in hebrew with greek for the nt or aramiac).
the God of the bible can keep his bible pure. of the kjvo types here how many have fluency in any other foreign languages
shoot if i took hebrews 11:1 and said it in spanish , you would find two words for hope that can be used. one of them is the closer to the intent of the writers. and that word translates to english to wait for! isnt that hope is. to know something is coming and to wait for it. so what does the dummy english language use there HOPE as in desperation. i say that as our modern culture uses hope like that.
but the bible chapter doesnt say hope that we have is like that.
No, surely there is not.
In the KJV, "Holy Ghost" appears 89 times in the NT, "Holy Spirit" 3 times in the OT.
In the NIV, "Holy Spirit" appears 91 times in the NT and 3 times in the OT.
So, if I decided to throw all reasoning out the window, I could here argue that the KJV is purposely trying to get rid of references to the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost.
But a man can also sinfully add to the word of God as well as sinfully take away from the word of God.
It also depends on what NIV you are using too. The strange thing is why are there different editions/versions of the NIV? It is like the original NIV was not God's word so later they had to bring about another one that is different.
Westcott's father was of the Ghost's Guild: a scientific society dedicated to the study of the paranormal. How much influence that his father had over him can be seen in how Westcott had translated Romans 8:26-27 in error.
Romans 8:<sup>26</sup> In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. <sup id="en-NIV-28144" class="versenum">27</sup> And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for Godâ€™s people in accordance with the will of God. New International Version ~
After the rudiment found in the world in how wizards seek after familiar spirits with babbling tongues that comes with no interpretation:
Isaiah 8:<sup>19</sup>And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? King James Bible ~
We see the same format here as Westcott has translated the passage in having the Holy Spirit make like a familiar spirit. Westcott has the Holy Spirit making direct intercessions himself and with groanings which words cannot express: meaning some intelligible sounds are being made.
But in verse 27, Westcott made a grammarical error in this translations which exposes how he was veiwing the passages in error as being solely about the Holy Spirit. The "he" that searches our hearts has to be seperate from us in the same context that the "he" has to be seperate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of. That means the conclusion of the verse cannot be the Spirit that intercedes for the saints in according to the will of God.
The correct translations has been maintained below by the KJB translators.
Romans 8:<sup>26</sup>Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. <sup id="en-KJV-28144" class="versenum">27</sup>And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. King James Bible ~
From these passages, we read that it is not solely about the Holy Spirit. Here's why.
The use of the term "itself" is the clue that the Holy Spirit is a means by which this intercessions is being made. The Holy Spirit is not making these intercessions directly Himself, but serving as a means by which this intercession is being made.
The "groanings which cannot be uttered" is in plain English that no sound is being made at all for this intercession that is happening.
So the reader is left with the question: how then can the Holy Spirit is a means by which this intercession is being made without uttering any sound at all? The answer is given in verse 27 as that is the whole point of verse 27 is to clarify what was written in verse 26.
The "he" that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit is the third person "he" that intercedes for the saints in according to the will of God.
So Who is the "he"? Romans 8:34 clarifies this:
Romans 8:<sup>34</sup>Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Confirmation can be found elsewhere:
The Word is the discerner of the heart:
Hebrews 4: <sup>12</sup>For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. <sup id="en-KJV-30028" class="versenum">13</sup>Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. <sup id="en-KJV-30029" class="versenum">14</sup>Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Reconfirmation that Jesus is the Word:
John 1:<sup id="en-KJV-26046" class="versenum">1</sup>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. <sup id="en-KJV-26047" class="versenum">2</sup>The same was in the beginning with God. <sup id="en-KJV-26048" class="versenum">3</sup>All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. <sup id="en-KJV-26049" class="versenum">4</sup>In him was life; and the life was the light of men....<sup>14</sup>And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Another clue to the identity of the third person of "he" in verse 27 is how it concludes in "according to the will of God" which is what?
1 Timothy 2:<sup>5</sup>For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
So the Holy Spirit makes intercessions indirectly by being the means by which Jesus Christ intercedes for the saints in according to the will of God by knowing the mind of the Spirit that needs no groanings to be uttered.
It is that truth that must be shared as to why God the Father knows before we even ask anything in prayer, because Jesus Christ is interceding on our behalf.
Matthew 6:<sup>7</sup>But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. <sup id="en-KJV-23291" class="versenum">8</sup>Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
This is a prime error in the NIV as it supports false teachings of using the "Holy Spirit" like familiar spirits with babbling tongues in communicating to God. Believers are believing every spirit and not testing them as God's gift of tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift, but to come with interpretation: and He certainly would not copycat Satan's babbling tongues, and so there is that distinction to stand apart from the world so God can reconcile those that do such things to repent of them in coming to God the Father through the Son: and not bring their familiar spirits and babbling tongues with them.
But when Westcott translated the NIV Bible: believers are unable to discern those spirits as not being the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit does not really need to say anything to God.... and so they go with the flow: believing every spirit that comes over them, and thus departing from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils in seeking to receive the "Holy Spirit" again and after a sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation.
Another thing that is wrong in the NIV is the use of the word "commit". Commit does not always mean "I will" as in making a religious commitment. Commit as used in the Hebrew term means to "roll away", thus the burden of what is being committed is being entrusted to another, thus declaring faith in that "He will do it".
New International Version ~ BELOW
1 Peter 4: <sup id="en-NIV-30466" class="versenum">19</sup> So then, those who suffer according to Godâ€™s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
What do we see in today's world? Believers making a commitment to Christ and commitments to follow Christ: one can look at that verse and say it is okay then.
King James Bible ~ BELOW
1 Peter 4: <sup id="en-KJV-30466" class="versenum">19</sup>Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
It is those that suffer that are "committing" as in "entrusting" the keeping of their souls to Him (the faithful Creator ) in well doing. The verse is not declaring a commitment of the believers to the faithful Creator and in doing good. The verse is declaring what the believers are entrusting their faithful Creator with and how they expect Him to perform: the keeping of their souls in well doing while they suffer.
But what do we have today? A famous evangelist has been accreditted in leading many in making a commitment to follow Christ for the assurance of their salvation by keeping it... as in "If you are not sure you are saved,...come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ". The results? The famous evangelist interviewed by Tony Snow has doubted that he would be received by Jesus Christ because he has not always been a good christian. That what happens if anyone seek to be justified by keeping that commitment to follow Christ.
Believers are to follow the Son of God by faith that He will help them live the christian life as we continue in His words by His grace & help to be His disciples.
A man's religious commitment speaks of himself and it is to his glory in keeping it, but no flesh shall glory in His presence, and by that commitment is the knowledge of sin and why no one will be justified by it and will always lack assurance from it.
Galatians 3:<sup>1</sup>O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? <sup id="en-KJV-29105" class="versenum">2</sup>This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? <sup id="en-KJV-29106" class="versenum">3</sup>Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
2 Corinthians 11:<sup>19</sup>For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. <sup id="en-KJV-29010" class="versenum">20</sup>For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.
Galatians 5:<sup id="en-KJV-29164" class="versenum">1</sup>Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. <sup id="en-KJV-29165" class="versenum">2</sup>Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. <sup id="en-KJV-29166" class="versenum">3</sup>For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. <sup id="en-KJV-29167" class="versenum">4</sup>Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. <sup id="en-KJV-29168" class="versenum">5</sup>For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Since the standard of Jesus is higher than the works of the law, no one can keep that commitment to follow Him for the assuarnce of their salvation.
Titus 3: <sup id="en-KJV-29928" class="versenum">4</sup>But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, <sup id="en-KJV-29929" class="versenum">5</sup>Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; <sup id="en-KJV-29930" class="versenum">6</sup>Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Colossians 1:<sup>20</sup>And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. <sup id="en-KJV-29487" class="versenum">21</sup>And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled <sup id="en-KJV-29488" class="versenum">22</sup>In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: <sup id="en-KJV-29489" class="versenum">23</sup>If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
So not only does the NIV has this error in it, supporting a false religious guantlet offered in an altar call to come forward and to make for the assurance of one's salvation, but they are blurring a rudiment in the world in how those that seek after familiar spirits that causes one to speak in babbling tongues to prtray the Holy Spirit as if He does the same thing.
Both changes in scriptures in the NIV are not keeping to the original meaning in God's words and are in fact, supporting false teachings and false spirits that are causing many to depart from faith in resorting to their own power in living the christian life and chasing after other "gods" to receive for a sign.
Jeremiah 50:<sup>6</sup>My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace. <sup id="en-KJV-20174" class="versenum">7</sup>All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.
From climbing a mountain by keeping that religious yoke to receiving the Holy Spirit again and again for that emotional highs and lows as one that have gone to the hills: they have all moved away from their resting place by departing from faith in resorting to their own power or by chasing after a sign.
Using the NIV to reprove those works of darkness is impossible: using the King James Bible can reprove those works of darkness, but only if God causes the increase. As it is, most believers fail to see the significance of those changed meanings in how a small leaven leavens into a whole lump.
Even King James Bible users sometimes cannot see the error between the versions to apply to and to expose apostate movements and false teachinsg today. That is why we need to trust Jesus Christ in being our Good Shepherd in understanding His words as kept by those that loved Him and His words in the King James Bible.
These verses below should tell you which Bible to use.
John 14:<sup id="en-KJV-26692" class="versenum">23</sup>Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. <sup id="en-KJV-26693" class="versenum">24</sup>He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
And the confirmation that the King James has it right is here:
John 5:<sup>39</sup>Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. <sup id="en-KJV-26251" class="versenum">40</sup>And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
So while modern Bibles changed the meaning of God's words to place the emphasis on the Holy Spirit or on the believer when the King James Bible has it on testifying of the Son to His glory, I would go with the King James Bible.
The more I've looked into it, the more I realize that such claims are fallacious and should be avoided by all except the experts in Greek and Hebrew. There is just too much that goes on in the language at the manuscript level for any regular person to make claims about what a certain word means, never mind what a verse or passage mean.
It also begs the question by assuming the KJV is right and the NIV or other modern versions are wrong. This is the main and most common error. Not to mention it's more or less comparing apples to oranges when comparing a dynamic equivalence translation with a formal equivalence one.
And as for your disagreement with a certain doctrine, that is hardly the basis by which to determine a dynamic equivalence translation is wrong.
I did a study only on the missing/changed verses of NIV to see if they are found else where so that the reader can atleast read it there. I found references to most of the verses but not for fasting.
Can some give me a reason to fast and pray from NIV. Actually, NIV readers will never know why to fast and will never be able to cast away certain demons.
It's also true that men have become liars and that people continue to wax worse by deceiving and being deceicved. That's what worldly knowledge amounts to.
What does this have to do with the topic??
Separate names with a comma.