When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[Mellontes]

The subject title says it all. I have had different answers to this question from people I know. What does this forum think?

When did the Law pass or is it still operating? And if it still is in effect, shouldn't we be obeying all the "jots and tittles" of it?

I don't think it is a simple question to answer...

 

[Obadiah]

You're right, it's not a simple question. Especially when talking about a general "The Law" as opposed to one particular part of it. If none of it applies to us today, then why can't we freely break all 10 "commandments" (for example)? But if it all still applies, then we must adhere to things such as not being allowed to wear wool and linen at the same time and many, many other such restrictions and commands. Where would "grace" fit in?

 

[eddif]

I Timothy 1:8
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

If the law is good then it is in operation at the time of Timothy. Using the Law is good when used correctly. The problem is when there seems to be no agreement on what lawfully means.

If people should repent; the only thing that really identifies sin is the Law. The Law will not however provide everything needed to deal with that sin. Jesus is the answer for eternal life and not the Law.

That is probably a start.

eddif

 

[Mellontes]

I have asked because many see the old covenant as being obsolete at the cross...

 

[mdougie]

I have asked because many see the old covenant as being obsolete at the cross...

That is indeed when it passed. We aren't under the law. We live under forgiveness.

 

[chakham]

And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear Yehovah our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
And it shall be accounted virtue in us, if we take care to do all these commandments before Yehovah our God, as he has commanded us.


The above alone seems to indicate why we would want to obey God. It also implies when we don't do them it is because we decided not too not because we cannot.

 

[mdougie]

And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear Yehovah our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
And it shall be accounted virtue in us, if we take care to do all these commandments before Yehovah our God, as he has commanded us.


The above alone seems to indicate why we would want to obey God. It also implies when we don't do them it is because we decided not too not because we cannot.

It's both. We choose to do everything we do. So yes we choose to sin. However we know that we can't choose to be perfect. So taken together we should strive for perfection, but realize we can't achieve it.

 

[Mellontes]

That is indeed when it passed. We aren't under the law. We live under forgiveness.

If the old covenant has passed, why are some willing to re-instate many things from the old covenant in a yet future millennial kingdom. I was under the impression that physical Israel and its physical temple system were merely SHADOWS pointing to Christ.

 

[mdougie]

If the old covenant has passed, why are some willing to re-instate many things from the old covenant in a yet future millennial kingdom. I was under the impression that physical Israel and its physical temple system were merely SHADOWS pointing to Christ.

I can't speak to why so many selectively want to follow old laws. I have met no one ever who thinks we have to follow all of them, but they want to hold on to a few they think are relevant.

 

[Mellontes]

But why hold on to ANY of them if if was just the shadow? Their position dictates Christ (the anti-type) coexisting with a physical temple system (type). This is painfully wrong.

And if the old covenant has passed, then all of it had to fulfilled, at least according to Matthew 5:18. That has serious implications (Genesis 49:1, Numbers 24:14, Deut 4:30, Deut 31:29)

 

[chakham]

I can't speak to why so many selectively want to follow old laws. I have met no one ever who thinks we have to follow all of them, but they want to hold on to a few they think are relevant.

Granted I have never personally met God, but He, the prime cause of all existence, is the one who commanded that we are to follow them. C'mon I just quoted God's very own words above in black and white, but you don't even see it do you? Must have something to do with that one saying "having eyes they do not see".

I have said so many times before we would want to do them out of love for the King who also happens to be our Father. I just don't understand why so many people will expect their children to obey them, or how some will defend the nations laws and constitution. But of Yehovah's commandments and instruction, they foresake. They dont even bother to investigate the matter of His Torah. They just regurgitate the same rubbish their masters of divinity tell them to believe.


Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

 

[mdougie]

Granted I have never personally met God, but He, the prime cause of all existence, is the one who commanded that we are to follow them. C'mon I just quoted God's very own words above in black and white, but you don't even see it do you? Must have something to do with that one saying "having eyes they do not see".

I have said so many times before we would want to do them out of love for the King who also happens to be our Father. I just don't understand why so many people will expect their children to obey them, or how some will defend the nations laws and constitution. But of Yehovah's commandments and instruction, they foresake. They dont even bother to investigate the matter of His Torah. They just regurgitate the same rubbish their masters of divinity tell them to believe.


Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Following all the laws is impossible. Do you do work on Sunday? Do you eat pork or shellfish? Do you have a mortgate and pay interest? These are the laws. I know of no one who follows or even actually believes we should follow them all.

 

[chakham]

It is not impossible. By my choice I do not eat unclean animals, by my choice I will go to work on Sundays but not on Shabbat. I observe and so look forward to observing and assembling on the days Yehovah has called us to observe, not man made ones, though I did watch the ball drop on Pope Gregory's New Year . I have no mortgage. I do pay interest on certain loans, but if I could find a righteous man who would not charge interest I would most assuredly do business with him or her. I myself however do not charge interest on any loans no matter what they are.

One thing I know too I am not perfect I have on many occasions failed miserably to be obedient to my Kings commandments. As there never was nor is there now a sacrifice for willful sin my only recourse according to His instruction is to repent and seek His mercy.

 

[chakham]

I know of no one who follows or even actually believes we should follow them all.

Well now you do.

 

[mdougie]

Well now you do.

Have you killed any homosexuals, witches, or stoned an adulteress?

 

[farouk]

Have you killed any homosexuals, witches, or stoned an adulteress?

Please don't be dismissive of the Scriptures which show a distinction and development between the Old and New Testaments.

We need the Lord Jesus, the Savior.

 

[mdougie]

Please don't be dismissive of the Scriptures which show a distinction and development between the Old and New Testaments.

We need the Lord Jesus, the Savior.

I am not dismissive, but I must point out that we don't follow nor should we follow all the laws. The only law we are to follow is that of Christ. Do unto others as we would have other do unto us. Love the Lord and love your neighbor as you love yourself. That is the only applicable law. Reflection on that simple command gives us the answer to any and all moral questions.

 

[chakham]

Have you killed any homosexuals, witches, or stoned an adulteress?

To be honest, I don't personally know of any witches, homosexuals or adulterers nor do I have any stones available to throw at them if I did.

The thing is when it comes to that sort of stuff and please understand I am not meaning to seem as if I am trying to neglect or cherry pick certain commandments. But It is my understanding the commandments (including the ones you just mentioned above) were given to Israel and those who sojourn with them in the land. If any one of them were to fall in to these problems, well that was the ruling for them and them alone. Being God's chosen they were to set the example. Therefore I believe God held them to a higher standard.

The gentile nations however live by their constitutions and laws which allows them to pretty much live as the please. But they too will have answer to the Creator and explain why the forsook his instruction and followed after strange gods and doctrines

 

[P31Woman]

I am not dismissive, but I must point out that we don't follow nor should we follow all the laws. The only law we are to follow is that of Christ. Do unto others as we would have other do unto us. Love the Lord and love your neighbor as you love yourself. That is the only applicable law. Reflection on that simple command gives us the answer to any and all moral questions.

I agree with you about loving God and man being the only applicable law. I do believe reflecting on the OT laws show us the character of God and help us know how to love him and others.

 

[P31Woman]

To be honest, I don't personally know of any witches, homosexuals or adulterers nor do I have any stones available to throw at them if I did.

Are you serious? Where do you live? Are you over 18 years old?