Discussion in 'Theology' started by wondering, Nov 25, 2017.
Sounds right to me.
Logically, Colossae’s wicked works people once "were alienated and enemies of mind", then ("now", in fact) have become reconciled "in the body of His flesh", not through wicked works. “Faithful brothers” are the brothers that recognize no other means but His flesh, His death, His resurrection (incarnation/death/resurrection) for our salvation. Which is why it's "established and firm" for “faithful brothers”. “Reserved for” faithful, Holy, blameless brothers, in fact. That is “if” you are a faithful brother and not a blameful, reproachable brother.
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the saints and faithful brothers in Christ in Colossae. Grace to you and peace from God our Father. We give thanks always to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ when we pray for you, since we heard about your faith in Christ Jesus and the love that you have for all the saints, because of the hope reserved for you in heaven, which you have heard about beforehand in the word of truth, the gospel,... giving thanks to the Father who has qualified you for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light, who has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have the redemption, the forgiveness of sins,Colossians 1:1-5,12-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Colossians 1:1-5,12-14&version=LEB
And although you were formerly alienated and enemies in attitude, because of your evil deeds, but now you have been reconciled by his physical body through death, to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you remain in the faith, established and steadfast and not shifted away from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.Colossians 1:21-23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Colossians 1:21-23&version=LEB
Don’t blame us faithful brothers for adding physical works to His Gospel of salvation “in Christ” and thus shifting away from His physical body of salvation.
So immortality begins with Jesus or the one who sent Him as it is written, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
The dead in Christ are raised first. Those left alive on that last day are caught up to be with the Lord so they also can be clothed with immortality as flesh and blood can't inherit the eternal kingdom God promised to those who love Him.
I do believe tormented and no rest night and day suggests awareness not annihilation. So everlasting life is in a new body while everlasting destruction is in the lake of fire and those who are so judged to eternal torment perish and are never seen again on this earth.
But those Brothers and Sisters who are saved and have been born again, and still walk the earth...some will still be standing when Jesus makes His appearance and retrurns! (Wow, can you imagine how it will be for them, to be standing when He comes?!...!!!) That is going to be super-cool. Anyway, these people...us...since we will be standing when He comes...we will never taste of death of the flesh, Jesus will come, transform us and there we are...immortality. So in essence, has their immortality already started?
Sounds about right to me.
I think the moment we become a living soul by the will of God would be when immortality begins.
And then after birth we enter into life and after this life we have an everlasting presence ultimately in either Heaven or Hell.
I use to have an Iguana before he escaped the apartment when a handyman left the door open while I was at work and he was fixing the water heater. Spike.
I thought of him when I saw that picture for some reason. Thanks for the memories. I loved him and I still wonder where he got to.
You say you think this to be the case. Since this is the Theology forum, can you please provide the Scripture that you base these thoughts and understanding on?
I apologize for omitting those.
Genesis 2:7 The LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine;(God's) the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
Ecclesiastes 12:7....then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. (1 Timothy 6:16
Who alone has immortality,(speaking of God) who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
Romans 6:23 The wages of Sin are Death, but the gift of God is Immortal Life, through union with Christ Jesus, our Lord.
Depends on the context. If those left alive at the 2nd coming are caught up to the Lord and clothed with immortality they must not have had it at birth. Yet Jesus preached to the spirits in prison who died in the days of Noah. From Noah to Jesus must be several thousand years. In the first context (salvation) I would state immorality in a body begins with Jesus. What nourishes spirit? Spirit is not of the dust of the earth. Does than spirit have a life expectancy? We don't know the answers but scriptures suggest awareness even in the lake of fire. And suffering for the dead who die apart from the Lord.
At the Resurrection.
Why not at death since the soul and spirit go on to live forever?
This seems to me to be the time when we will no longer get sick and there will be no more tears, etc.
No one is immortal except the Father. Paul tells us in his letter Timothy that the Father alone has immortality. We are mortal and die. Moses recorded the creation of man in Genesis. In Gen 2:7 we find that God created man from the dust of the earth. Man consists of the elements of the creation. We then read that God breathed His breath or spirit of life into man and man became a living soul. There was transformation of the man who was an inanimate creation when God breathed into him. The man then became a living soul. We see from this that man consists of body, created from the elements, and the breath of God. It is this breath of God that give man life. When a man dies that breath or spirit of God returns to Him and the man returns to dust. There is nothing left of a man to live on after death. The man is dead until the Resurrection at which time God will again breath His breath into man.
I just addressed this in the post above.
Yes. I saw it...
Reading it again...
Almost:"Today you shall be with me in paradise" so it began with Jesus's words.
We die physically.
In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the apparently non-physical part of them went to Sheol; Lazarus to the "Bosom of Abraham" (a place of comfort) and the rich man to torment in flames. So that part of man does not die when the body does.
I think of those two parts of the human being as the soul and the body. (Mat 20:28)
Every body (physical part of man) will die unless Jesus returns before that happens.
But the non-physical part (soul) apparently does not.
So: When is immortality given to man?
It seems to me that the soul of a person has immortality in two parts or phases.
The first part/phase is when he believes. (John 3:15-16)
The second part/phase is when the body of a believing person is given eternal life at the resurrection when all bodies will be raised immortal and incorruptible. (1Cor 15:52-55)
And that's what it looks like from here.
iakov the fool
That's why I made the point of saying we are mortal. We are not part mortal, we are mortal. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not about the afterlife. It a judgment against the leadership of Israel. I contend that there is no part of a person that lives on after death. Gen 2:7 tells us how God created man. He created man from the dust and breathed His breath of spirit of life into the man and the man became a living soul. A soul consists of a body and the breath of God. When man dies God's breath returns to Him and man returns to dust.
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