When Even God gives up on us (Romans 1:26-2:1)

[th1b.taylor]

Papyrus,
I seldom recommend this to laymen in the Christian Faith that are not grounded but here I am doing it now. You own a computer that almost surely runs some form of the ridiculously over priced Windows and if you're normal, you have been terrified of free software but!

You need a copy of e-Sword found at www.e-sword,net. The program is written and upgraded by a Christian that, as long as you download from his web page, is virus free. the e-Sword Program is used world wide by all manor of preachers. It comes stock with the KJV with the Strong's Numbers. When you exicute the program and install it. in the Tool Bar at the top of the two top windows there is a button titled, Downloads.

Click that and then click Bibles. There must be better than thirty versions there, free. and if youare like myself and prefer one of the copyrighted versions, my NASB cost me 20 dollars.

Now, when you are in Downloads, I believe there are still tabs at the top of the Downloads Frame to select the categories and before you begin the first download, click on Dictionaries and scroll down to Naves. Click it and all the selected books will be install for you, free to use or give to your friends in a file or disk.

Close the program and restart it and slect, via tabs at the top of each of the four frames select the books you will be using the most.

Now look at the Nave's Topical Bible and look any topic up and do the Bible Study. In two or three years you can know as much about the Bible as the Pastor of 99% of the Churches, meaning that as you study you will need to learn to exercise humility like nobody you ever knew before. And may God bless you and yours.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Papyrus,
I seldom recommend this to laymen in the Christian Faith that are not grounded but here I am doing it now. You own a computer that almost surely runs some form of the ridiculously over priced Windows and if you're normal, you have been terrified of free software but!

You need a copy of e-Sword found at www.e-sword,net. The program is written and upgraded by a Christian that, as long as you download from his web page, is virus free. the e-Sword Program is used world wide by all manor of preachers. It comes stock with the KJV with the Strong's Numbers. When you exicute the program and install it. in the Tool Bar at the top of the two top windows there is a button titled, Downloads.

Click that and then click Bibles. There must be better than thirty versions there, free. and if youare like myself and prefer one of the copyrighted versions, my NASB cost me 20 dollars.

Now, when you are in Downloads, I believe there are still tabs at the top of the Downloads Frame to select the categories and before you begin the first download, click on Dictionaries and scroll down to Naves. Click it and all the selected books will be install for you, free to use or give to your friends in a file or disk.

Close the program and restart it and slect, via tabs at the top of each of the four frames select the books you will be using the most.

Now look at the Nave's Topical Bible and look any topic up and do the Bible Study. In two or three years you can know as much about the Bible as the Pastor of 99% of the Churches, meaning that as you study you will need to learn to exercise humility like nobody you ever knew before. And may God bless you and yours.

Esword is very good, I also like TW software (The Word) software. It's free too and has a lot of tools. I have both of those, and Logos software. I use logos regularly for stuff like devotions and prayer lists. But when I look up topics I will look them up in TW, sometimes in Esword. Also Logos. Logos is by far the best, but it's not free. But Sometimes in Esword and TW software you can get books you can't get in logos. They also have personal book builder software. Which is nice too. Also you can buy kindle books and rip them with calibre. I use several search engines, some form word docs created from calibre, from kindle books (the cheapest form of book you can get) But that way you can search in windows and not need to open a software to search. Also one more thing, you can once you convert your kindle books, you can create mp3 files with IVONA text to speech engine, about 40$. Very clear voices. I read probably 20 books over a 2-3 year period, just driving 15 minutes to work. Parenting, investing and some prophecy. But very enlightening. Now I listen to Jon Courson sermons in my car, have gone through mathew, mark, luke, genesis, exodus and part of leviticus. (90$ for whole bible mp3), in about 8-10 months, out of the audio by far the best investment was the Bible study mp3's.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

who put a thief as a disciple? God or judas? Both. God did so, just as much as Judas did. But if Judas has the free will to reject Christ after believing initially, then the blame falls on HIm. If he does not have the free will then it becomes God's fault, because HE was elected to that position.

Judas was saved and forgiven. Now the heart of those who live after Christ's sacrifice are weighed and measured according to the covenant.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

here is a few for you:

1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9

1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

do you still want to say , "the saint is not a sinner?"

Oh dear soul, I am not the one that said it and died to make it a fact for all time. I AM did.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Judas was saved and forgiven. Now the heart of those who live after Christ's sacrifice are weighed and measured according to the covenant.

He was saved but later in life he was called a devil by Jesus. So he forfeited salvation

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Papyrus,
I seldom recommend this to laymen in the Christian Faith that are not grounded but here I am doing it now. You own a computer that almost surely runs some form of the ridiculously over priced Windows and if you're normal, you have been terrified of free software but!

You need a copy of e-Sword found at www.e-sword,net. The program is written and upgraded by a Christian that, as long as you download from his web page, is virus free. the e-Sword Program is used world wide by all manor of preachers. It comes stock with the KJV with the Strong's Numbers. When you exicute the program and install it. in the Tool Bar at the top of the two top windows there is a button titled, Downloads.

Click that and then click Bibles. There must be better than thirty versions there, free. and if youare like myself and prefer one of the copyrighted versions, my NASB cost me 20 dollars.

Now, when you are in Downloads, I believe there are still tabs at the top of the Downloads Frame to select the categories and before you begin the first download, click on Dictionaries and scroll down to Naves. Click it and all the selected books will be install for you, free to use or give to your friends in a file or disk.

Close the program and restart it and slect, via tabs at the top of each of the four frames select the books you will be using the most.

Now look at the Nave's Topical Bible and look any topic up and do the Bible Study. In two or three years you can know as much about the Bible as the Pastor of 99% of the Churches, meaning that as you study you will need to learn to exercise humility like nobody you ever knew before. And may God bless you and yours.

I don't know why you thought to gift me this information and link however, thank you so much. And may God also continue to bless you and yours brother.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

He was saved but later in life he was called a devil by Jesus. So he forfeited salvation

Where does it say that in scriptures?

Luke 23:34 When they came to the place called The Skull, they crucified Him there, along with the criminals, one on His right and the other on His left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

When Jesus assured his Disciples that he could call angels to save him from the cross were it his will, do we think Judas would have been able to betray Christ if it was not in the will of the father? How else would the pure unblemished lamb of God come to be the prophesied final sacrifice on the altar cross were it not for his being given up to those who would ultimately see him put there?

All was as God willed.
And Jesus knew this. Matthew 26: 1-2 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, “As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.”
Jesus told his father in prayer and while in the garden of Gethsemane, a garden at the foot of the Mount of Olives,as we recall the other garden Eden, the garden of delights, where the need for salvation from sin began for our kind, humans, if it be the fathers will let this cup pass from me.
But, Jesus continued, not his will but the fathers be done. He gave himself to his fathers will. Because he was born for it. 100% human, 100% proof of the indwelling of God and his holy spirit. Matthew 26.

Do I imagine when in excruciating pain nailed to the cross and already raised up, that if Jesus redeemed the thief dying beside him because he asked Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom,. can then think the Apostle thief that was Judas, who was called by God's design to identify Jesus to the Sanhedrin's temple guards who sought him out, was not forgiven for his part in fulfilling the prophecy that insured my eternal immortal salvation? And that Jesus allowed? "What you are about to do, do quickly." (John 13:27)

No. How do I come to believe all there at the foot of the cross, everyone who screamed for Barabbas to be freed two days before Passover as was Rome's custom to release one imprisoned Jew before Passover, were all forgiven? Including Judas? When Judas repented of his sin that he did not know would afford as serious a consequence upon his master as it did. Matthew 27.....
When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver the chief priests and the elders. “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.” “What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”

Who hanged himself on a tree and when scripture says anyone who is hanged on a tree is cursed, which being a Jew Judas would have known. When he could have suicides easily enough by throwing himself in the sea? Because Jesus came to take the sins of the world upon himself on that altar cross. How would he then exempt the one Apostle whom he knew before the womb and who made the covenant promise in following God's will possible. When his whole reason for being born was to die to save the world through God's grace. And he'd deny one Apostle thief that gift?
No. He told me so himself.

Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”
("What you are about to do, do quickly.") Forgiveness was the soul, sole, reason Jesus was on the cross in the first place.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Where does it say that in scriptures?

Luke 23:34 When they came to the place called The Skull, they crucified Him there, along with the criminals, one on His right and the other on His left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

When Jesus assured his Disciples that he could call angels to save him from the cross were it his will, do we think Judas would have been able to betray Christ if it was not in the will of the father? How else would the pure unblemished lamb of God come to be the prophesied final sacrifice on the altar cross were it not for his being given up to those who would ultimately see him put there?

All was as God willed.
And Jesus knew this. Matthew 26: 1-2 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, “As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.”
Jesus told his father in prayer and while in the garden of Gethsemane, a garden at the foot of the Mount of Olives,as we recall the other garden Eden, the garden of delights, where the need for salvation from sin began for our kind, humans, if it be the fathers will let this cup pass from me.
But, Jesus continued, not his will but the fathers be done. He gave himself to his fathers will. Because he was born for it. 100% human, 100% proof of the indwelling of God and his holy spirit. Matthew 26.

Do I imagine when in excruciating pain nailed to the cross and already raised up, that if Jesus redeemed the thief dying beside him because he asked Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom,. can then think the Apostle thief that was Judas, who was called by God's design to identify Jesus to the Sanhedrin's temple guards who sought him out, was not forgiven for his part in fulfilling the prophecy that insured my eternal immortal salvation? And that Jesus allowed? "What you are about to do, do quickly." (John 13:27)

No. How do I come to believe all there at the foot of the cross, everyone who screamed for Barabbas to be freed two days before Passover as was Rome's custom to release one imprisoned Jew before Passover, were all forgiven? Including Judas? When Judas repented of his sin that he did not know would afford as serious a consequence upon his master as it did. Matthew 27.....
When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver the chief priests and the elders. “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.” “What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”

Who hanged himself on a tree and when scripture says anyone who is hanged on a tree is cursed, which being a Jew Judas would have known. When he could have suicides easily enough by throwing himself in the sea? Because Jesus came to take the sins of the world upon himself on that altar cross. How would he then exempt the one Apostle whom he knew before the womb and who made the covenant promise in following God's will possible. When his whole reason for being born was to die to save the world through God's grace. And he'd deny one Apostle thief that gift?
No. He told me so himself.

Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”
("What you are about to do, do quickly.") Forgiveness was the soul, sole, reason Jesus was on the cross in the first place.

I stand by my original comment, and I don't see you rebutting the verses I gave.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Oh dear soul, I am not the one that said it and died to make it a fact for all time. I AM did.

I AM also said "that if you say you have no sin we decieve ourselves.1 john1:8

 

[Papyrus_dust]

I stand by my original comment, and I don't see you rebutting the verses I gave.

Please do.

I have arrived at the conclusion in speaking with many who argue scriptures similarly, that it is folly to repeat myself when scripture is not accepted the first time.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

I AM also said "that if you say you have no sin we decieve ourselves.1 john1:8

Verse nine puts it into proper context as to whom is being addressed. First John is a sermon. The Apostles were to deliver the good news, Gospel, to the whole world.
1John1:1 That which was from the beginning which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.... (Notice how Word is capitalized? Word of life.
Preaching salvation to sinning persons who are in their sin John preempted his audience in the event they thought they had no need to listen to the Word of life because they were not sinners. "that if you say you have no sin we deceive ourselves."

Therefore, 1 John 1:8 and in fairness to the message, verse 9,put the teaching in proper context.

Besides that, how can it be defended using scriptures that an Apostle of Christ was a sinner? How would a sinner go forth and fulfill the great commission by delivering the good news to the world that people can be in God's grace and repent and be cleansed of their sins all unrighteousness, be an apt teacher were they still in sin themselves?

1 John 1: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

God's word was in the Apostles.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I don't know why you thought to gift me this information and link however, thank you so much. And may God also continue to bless you and yours brother.

as the Fonze used to say, "Aaaaaaaa! It's nuthin!

 

[th1b.taylor]

Where does it say that in scriptures?

Luke 23:34 When they came to the place called The Skull, they crucified Him there, along with the criminals, one on His right and the other on His left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

When Jesus assured his Disciples that he could call angels to save him from the cross were it his will, do we think Judas would have been able to betray Christ if it was not in the will of the father? How else would the pure unblemished lamb of God come to be the prophesied final sacrifice on the altar cross were it not for his being given up to those who would ultimately see him put there?

All was as God willed.
And Jesus knew this. Matthew 26: 1-2 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, “As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.”
Jesus told his father in prayer and while in the garden of Gethsemane, a garden at the foot of the Mount of Olives,as we recall the other garden Eden, the garden of delights, where the need for salvation from sin began for our kind, humans, if it be the fathers will let this cup pass from me.
But, Jesus continued, not his will but the fathers be done. He gave himself to his fathers will. Because he was born for it. 100% human, 100% proof of the indwelling of God and his holy spirit. Matthew 26.

Do I imagine when in excruciating pain nailed to the cross and already raised up, that if Jesus redeemed the thief dying beside him because he asked Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom,. can then think the Apostle thief that was Judas, who was called by God's design to identify Jesus to the Sanhedrin's temple guards who sought him out, was not forgiven for his part in fulfilling the prophecy that insured my eternal immortal salvation? And that Jesus allowed? "What you are about to do, do quickly." (John 13:27)

No. How do I come to believe all there at the foot of the cross, everyone who screamed for Barabbas to be freed two days before Passover as was Rome's custom to release one imprisoned Jew before Passover, were all forgiven? Including Judas? When Judas repented of his sin that he did not know would afford as serious a consequence upon his master as it did. Matthew 27.....
When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver the chief priests and the elders. “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.” “What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”

Who hanged himself on a tree and when scripture says anyone who is hanged on a tree is cursed, which being a Jew Judas would have known. When he could have suicides easily enough by throwing himself in the sea? Because Jesus came to take the sins of the world upon himself on that altar cross. How would he then exempt the one Apostle whom he knew before the womb and who made the covenant promise in following God's will possible. When his whole reason for being born was to die to save the world through God's grace. And he'd deny one Apostle thief that gift?
No. He told me so himself.

Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”
("What you are about to do, do quickly.") Forgiveness was the soul, sole, reason Jesus was on the cross in the first place.

You proved nothing concerning about Judas and I thought that was the point. Did I miss a stroke?

 

[godsquadgeek]

Verse nine puts it into proper context as to whom is being addressed. First John is a sermon. The Apostles were to deliver the good news, Gospel, to the whole world.
1John1:1 That which was from the beginning which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.... (Notice how Word is capitalized? Word of life.
Preaching salvation to sinning persons who are in their sin John preempted his audience in the event they thought they had no need to listen to the Word of life because they were not sinners. "that if you say you have no sin we deceive ourselves."

Therefore, 1 John 1:8 and in fairness to the message, verse 9,put the teaching in proper context.

Besides that, how can it be defended using scriptures that an Apostle of Christ was a sinner? How would a sinner go forth and fulfill the great commission by delivering the good news to the world that people can be in God's grace and repent and be cleansed of their sins all unrighteousness, be an apt teacher were they still in sin themselves?

1 John 1: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

God's word was in the Apostles.

but it directly disproves what was said by you. You have said several things here. For one I believe you said that Jesus forgives us of every sin, but you forgot that He did not die for the sin of apostasy. Or rejecting Christ. If Christ forgave that sin, literally there would be none in hell. Secondly you said that "saints do not sin" and that is proven wrong the next time your in traffic and you start hating the guy in front of you. Or the next time you look at a girl in lust. We have sin all the time, in nearly every situation. Thats why we are being sanctified. But thats why I mention this, to correct some of the numerous slight errors in your posts. I hope this dialogue helps both of our theologies, thank you for the discussion.

 

[th1b.taylor]

but it directly disproves what was said by you. You have said several things here. For one I believe you said that Jesus forgives us of every sin, but you forgot that He did not die for the sin of apostasy. Or rejecting Christ. If Christ forgave that sin, literally there would be none in hell. Secondly you said that "saints do not sin" and that is proven wrong the next time your in traffic and you start hating the guy in front of you. Or the next time you look at a girl in lust. We have sin all the time, in nearly every situation. Thats why we are being sanctified. But thats why I mention this, to correct some of the numerous slight errors in your posts. I hope this dialogue helps both of our theologies, thank you for the discussion.

papyrus,
Scripturally, GSG is correct.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

You proved nothing concerning about Judas and I thought that was the point. Did I miss a stroke?

Yes. Judas repented. That's in scripture. We're suppose to post scripture to support our points. What are we to do when scripture is ignored by those that would prefer to insist on unscriptural points?

Jesus from the cross asked the father to forgive "them" for they know not what they are doing. "Them" would be all inclusive. Even Judas. Jesus therefore asked his father to forgive Judas as well as everyone responsible for his being sent to the cross he was born to assume as the last sacrifice for sins.
Judas being a Jew knew the scriptures in the Hebrew text about that person which dies on a tree. He hung himself from one. He was that ashamed of having betrayed innocent blood. Christ.
Judas was told by Jesus at the last supper to go and do what he must do. Jesus therefore knew Judas' mission in the plan of salvation his father set for him. Otherwise, do you really think one betrayer would have made it out of that upper room? When Peter had the courage to draw a sword on the temple guard that was trying to take hold of his master later on in the garden ?
Hardly so. Jesus knew Judas purpose through the father. Judas did not. He did not know what he was doing.

Edited

In fact it is offensive for any Christian, and there are a few in the world, just watch television ministers for an example, very sad, to insist repeatedly and contrary to scripture that a mortal is more powerful in their will than is the God that knew his sheep before he created the world on which they dwell. And that is why, such teachers insist, a human can give back their salvation. Walk away and eternally be damned.
When the scripture truth of God's Word of Life says no such thing.

Such teachings are ministering counter gospel, anti-Christ evil, and its hubris, ego, pride, are sins repeating the effort. Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Judas was included in the numbered, them.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Yes. Judas repented. That's in scripture. Jesus from the cross asked the father to forgive "them" for they know not what they are doing. "Them" would be all inclusive. Even Judas. Jesus therefore asked his father to forgive Judas as well as everyone responsible for his being sent to the cross he was born to assume as the last sacrifice for sins.
Judas being a Jew knew the scriptures in the Hebrew text about that person which dies on a tree. He hung himself from one. He was that ashamed of having betrayed innocent blood. Christ.
Judas was told by Jesus at the last supper to go and do what he must do. Jesus therefore knew Judas' mission in the plan of salvation his father set for him. Otherwise, do you really think one betrayer would have made it out of that upper room? When Peter had the courage to draw a sword on the temple guard that was trying to take hold of his master later on in the garden ?
Hardly so. Jesus knew Judas purpose through the father. Judas did not. He did not know what he was doing.

GSG is rarely correct.

In fact it is offensive for any Christian, and there are a few, to insist repeatedly and contrary to scripture that a mortal is more powerful in their will than is the God that knew his sheep before he created the world on which they dwell. It is ministering counter gospel, anti-Christ evil, and its hubris, ego, pride, are sins repeating the effort. Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Judas was included in the numbered, them.

Theologians believe he had sorrow, but it was sorrow that he was caught, not sorrow unto repentance. But I personally don't know. I hope he got saved, but the Bible chose not to dwell on that topic.

 

[WIP]

Yes. Judas repented. That's in scripture. We're suppose to post scripture to support our points. What are we to do when scripture is ignored by those that would prefer to insist on unscriptural points?

Jesus from the cross asked the father to forgive "them" for they know not what they are doing. "Them" would be all inclusive. Even Judas. Jesus therefore asked his father to forgive Judas as well as everyone responsible for his being sent to the cross he was born to assume as the last sacrifice for sins.
Judas being a Jew knew the scriptures in the Hebrew text about that person which dies on a tree. He hung himself from one. He was that ashamed of having betrayed innocent blood. Christ.
Judas was told by Jesus at the last supper to go and do what he must do. Jesus therefore knew Judas' mission in the plan of salvation his father set for him. Otherwise, do you really think one betrayer would have made it out of that upper room? When Peter had the courage to draw a sword on the temple guard that was trying to take hold of his master later on in the garden ?
Hardly so. Jesus knew Judas purpose through the father. Judas did not. He did not know what he was doing.

GSG is rarely correct.

In fact it is offensive for any Christian, and there are a few in the world, just watch television ministers for an example, very sad, to insist repeatedly and contrary to scripture that a mortal is more powerful in their will than is the God that knew his sheep before he created the world on which they dwell. And that is why, such teachers insist, a human can give back their salvation. Walk away and eternally be damned.
When the scripture truth of God's Word of Life says no such thing.

Such teachings are ministering counter gospel, anti-Christ evil, and its hubris, ego, pride, are sins repeating the effort. Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Judas was included in the numbered, them.

Yes, Jesus did pray to the Father to forgive those that hung him on the cross but he He also said this about Judas.

“Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, “Is it I, Lord?” He answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:21-25 NKJV

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Theologians believe he had sorrow, but it was sorrow that he was caught, not sorrow unto repentance. But I personally don't know. I hope he got saved, but the Bible chose not to dwell on that topic.

How would he have sorrow he was caught? Who would catch him? The Sanhedrin paid him , and Jesus told him to go and do what he must do in order to betray him.
He had sorrow because as the scripture said of his own words, he betrayed innocent blood.
Judas partook of the last supper in the upper room. Luke 22:7-23
And Jesus told all his disciples that they would all fall away after his death on the cross. Peter,did as Jesus said he would, and denied him three times and before Jesus was on the cross. Did Jesus not forgive Peter? The 11 Disciples fell away but then returned to the Lord when he resurrected. Were they all not forgiven?
Would God cause one he ordained to be part of the prophecy of Jesus dying on the cross for the wins of the world's people then punish the deliverer of Jesus to his enemies so that the sacrifice could be accomplished? When Jesus knew Judas' purpose, and of course his own. Could Jesus have suffered for us and died on that last sin alter were it not for Judas' part in God's plan for his only begotten son?

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Yes, Jesus did pray to the Father to forgive those that hung him on the cross but he He also said this about Judas.

“Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, “Is it I, Lord?” He answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:21-25 NKJV

You were posting at the same time I was.
It's thought to be a mistranslated in some Bible versions. Would God punish the one chosen to carry out his will for his son?

Greek Interlinear version. Highlighted is that particular passage about Judas birth.
o <3588> {THE} men <3303> {INDEED} uiov <5207> tou <3588> {SON} anyrwpou <444> {OF MAN} upagei <5217> (5719) {GOES,} kaywv <2531> {AS} gegraptai <1125> (5769) {IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN} peri <4012> {CONCERNING} autou <846> {HIM,} [Christ] ouai <3759> de <1161> tw <3588> {BUT WOE} anyrwpw <444> ekeinw <1565> {TO THAT MAN} [Judas] di <1223> {BY} ou <3739> {WHOM} o <3588> {THE} uiov <5207> tou <3588> {SON} anyrwpou <444> {OF MAN} paradidotai <3860> (5743) {IS DELIVERED UP;} kalon <2570> {GOOD} hn <2258> (5713) {WERE IT} autw <846> {FOR HIM} [Christ] ei <1487> ouk <3756> {IF} egennhyh <1080> (5681) o <3588> {HAD NOT BEEN BORN} anyrwpov <444> ekeinov <1565> {THAT MAN.} [Judas] (Mt. 26:24).
"The Indeed Son of man goes as it has been written concerning Christ. But woe to that man (Judas) by whom the son of man is delivered up; good were it for him (Christ) if had not been born that man(Judas).

It's saying it would have been good for Christ had Judas not been born


Source for Greek Interlinear version and article
FAQ 14. Better had Judas not been born? Matthew 26:24