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Which mother is in the RIGHT
- Thread starter Julia
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Nikki
Member
Hmmmm...this is a tricky one. I work in health care, so naked bodies aren't a shocker to me. Yet, at the same time, I don't like others to see MY naked body (I'm even embarrassed in front of my own husband sometimes) and I really don't like to see theirs outside of a medical setting. BUT...the mother was in a dressing room where the majority of women strip down naked to change right out there in the open. Also people need to keep in mind that nudity is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed of in other countries. I have a friend from Sweden and if someone came walking into their house naked, they wouldn't so much as blink. They really would have no reaction whatsoever because they don't view nudity the way the rest of us do. To them, it's just a body. They don't get aroused or turned on at the sight of every naked body.
If it had been me with the son, I would have told my son to turn his head as to respect the women dressing if I didn't want him to possibly see someone naked.
If it had been me with the son, I would have told my son to turn his head as to respect the women dressing if I didn't want him to possibly see someone naked.
Both sides have a legit view.... for me i would lean to the side of modesty .. the yelling mom did not need to stay and could have later quietly asked the naked mom to please use the cubical.
Agreed
Nikki
Member
Very good point.
I always use a stall just because I personally don't feel comfortable changing in front of others. When I was in high school, I used to get teased for changing in a stall while everyone else just stripped down in front of one another like it was nothing.
There is a public pool that we sometimes go to and the majority of people get butt naked right there in the dressing room. I guess many women just don't give it a 2nd thought and probably have no clue that they may offend someone. It is a "changing room" after all.
Obadiah
Member
Are you serious? Did you read the article? The woman was in a dressing room! If I am in a male dressing room and some other guy walks in with his 5 year old daughter and she sees me naked, you honestly believe I should go to jail for that? I don't think so. You are talking more like if this occurred in a public place where undressing is prohibited. If this woman didn't want her kid to see another woman undressing, she should have figured out some way to not take him into a changing room! This was the mother's fault, not the fault of the woman changing her clothes in a room designated for changing clothes.
Claudya
Member
Well that's a very American problem. In many other cultures on the world non-sexual nudity is acceptable and natural (depending on context).
Maybe I've spent too much time at nudist beaches as a kid but I really don't understand the fuss.
Children at age 5 are way too innocent to be shocked about naked adults of any gender.
There is nothing evil about nudity in general. Nudity itself isn't a sexual thing, either. It's somewhat connected to each other, but it's not equivalent. So seeing someone else naked is not the same as having or desiring a sexual relationship with them.
I'm sure if you constantly "teach" a boy (e.g. by berating another woman in front of him) that naked women (or nuditiy in genera) are baaaaaad two things will happen: 1. He will become more scared, but also curious about nudity because forbidden things are very interesting for kids and adolescents, so I'd bet kids that are risen to believe nudity is bad are more likely to get hooked on porn; and 2. he may actually get in trouble with his own sexuality or his own body because he feels like showing one's undressed body to other people is evil and thus won't be able to enjoy being naked with his wife.
One question remains. If that other woman does not want her boy to see naked women - why did she take him to a place where women get naked? That makes no sense at all.
Maybe I've spent too much time at nudist beaches as a kid but I really don't understand the fuss.
Children at age 5 are way too innocent to be shocked about naked adults of any gender.
There is nothing evil about nudity in general. Nudity itself isn't a sexual thing, either. It's somewhat connected to each other, but it's not equivalent. So seeing someone else naked is not the same as having or desiring a sexual relationship with them.
I'm sure if you constantly "teach" a boy (e.g. by berating another woman in front of him) that naked women (or nuditiy in genera) are baaaaaad two things will happen: 1. He will become more scared, but also curious about nudity because forbidden things are very interesting for kids and adolescents, so I'd bet kids that are risen to believe nudity is bad are more likely to get hooked on porn; and 2. he may actually get in trouble with his own sexuality or his own body because he feels like showing one's undressed body to other people is evil and thus won't be able to enjoy being naked with his wife.
One question remains. If that other woman does not want her boy to see naked women - why did she take him to a place where women get naked? That makes no sense at all.
Claudya
Member
Naw. If a father (e.g. a single dad) takes his five year old daughter (who is too young to go to the girls' change room on her own) to the men's change room with him and some other man quitely changes clothes in the other corner of the room, what would that oher man go to prison for? I doubt he broke any law by changing clothes in a change room.
And as for the innocence of the little boy in the article, his mother has probably done greater damage to his innocence by making that fuss in front of him than the other woman by changing her cloths.
Read it again Obadiah ... i believe Vaccine it talking about the way thing go not what should be.. As in the women teachers who are not held as accountable as the men teachers when those lines are crossed....
Claudya the climate here in the USA is way to anti-male my guess it that is what Vaccine is thinking about... It needs to find a balance...
Vaccine
Member
Yes, and here's what I read: "...Why couldn’t you go in the cubicle..". That's a perfectly legitimate point.
Of course not. Assuming you're in a private dressing room. IF there's a cubicle specifically for changing and a general purpose area, then yes that's pretty inconsiderate of someone to use that area, children or no children.
I agree there is blame on the part of both parties. The article pointed out there's a communal area and a separate cubicle. If I brought my daughter in a bathroom I think its reasonable to say she won't be seeing any naked men in the communal area, the stalls are another matter.
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Claudya
Member
Hm, maybe. There is a risk for feminism to fall into the opposite extreme. Female sex offenders should be punished like male ones.
(however, the woman in that article didn't commit a sexual offense, neither would a man in the reversed case. Or at least I can't imagine she did, but some American states have some funny laws
)
Vaccine
Member
There is a law against Indecent exposure. There was a communal area and a separate cubicle, that mother was just inconsiderate, the other mother could've been nicer about it. In my whole life I've never seen a naked men in public restrooms. I've brought my daughters in with me and think I can reasonably assume she won't be seeing any naked men in the communal area, the stalls are another matter.
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Vaccine
Member
Thanks Reba, I did say could not should press charges. Both parties in that case have some blame.
Obadiah
Member
Having studied some law and being a retired cop who dealt with many indecent exposure complaints I know that where I worked nudity is not a criminal offense unless it can be shown that it was done for illegal sexual purposes or done to offend someone. (This is similar in all states.) The woman in the article did neither of these things. What they are calling the "communal" area in these dressing rooms in the US is not a "no nudity" area. The cubicles are simply provided for those who are more modest, and are much more common in ladies changing rooms than in men's. (Yes, I've been in plenty of both.) It is common knowledge that if you are anywhere in a designated changing room such as described in the article, you are free to change your clothes. It doesn't matter who else is there to see it. This is not legally considered a sexual offense and is not a chargeable action. Common sense has to step in somewhere, and common sense says if you don't want your kid to see a woman changing her clothes, don't take him into a women's changing room....(however, the woman in that article didn't commit a sexual offense, neither would a man in the reversed case. Or at least I can't imagine she did, but some American states have some funny laws
Obadiah
Member
Once again, I think perhaps you either misunderstood the article or didn't read it in it's entirety. This was not in a public restroom. This was in a room at a public pool that is specifically designated for changing your clothes. That makes a big difference.
Deborah13
Member
This reminds me of taking Jake in the ladies changing room at the pool. We'd cover his eyes just in case someone was not in a cubical. Then put him in a cubical to change and then walk him out with his eyes covered if necessary. No big deal. It is a changing room.
Claudya
Member
Now I'm wondering what you were doing in ladies' changing rooms
Some people are more modest (or shy) than others. I can see that at work. We have like no buildings, but two construction trailers where we can change. Both have a "Do not enter" sign everyone can put up when they want to change. Some people are really rigid about using those signs (one of our guys doesn't even tolerate other guys around him while changing, let alone women) while others (like I) don't really care who else is around, as long as they don't blatantly stare. None of us gets completely naked when changing from work clothes to street clothes, so I guess it's not a huge deal anyway.
Surprisingly though it seems to be our guys that have the greater need for privacy. Except for my boss who didn't mind getting naked in front of me when we went swimming. I thought that was pretty cool and a display of confidence and trust.
Obadiah
Member
LOL. When you're a street cop in a big American city you'd be surprised at what kind of places your work takes you! Really surprised!Now I'm wondering what you were doing in ladies' changing rooms
Claudya
Member
I'll feel much safer now knowing that street cops maintain law and order in ladies' changing rooms.
