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Who is allah, really?

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#21
Is Allah a false god in the sense that he doesn't exist? Or does he exist but is actually, well, the devil?
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (NOTICE there is no capital g, only lower case)

Satan is a created being, an angel who fell Therefore he is not a god.

As a result every other "god" is a man-created being, hence non existent
 
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#22
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (NOTICE there is no capital g, only lower case)

Satan is a created being, an angel who fell Therefore he is not a god.

As a result every other "god" is a man-created being, hence non existent
I have to agree with you By Grace. Other things that become more valued than God, the only God, becomes a god. That's what called violating the first, and second Commandments, possibly others. With regard to Allah, it's completely understandable that Muslims would say he's God, but that doesn't make them less guilty of having another god before God. A short evaluation of the God of the Bible and the Koran will quickly show differences, and we know the truth is not relative. Muslims can't say, 'My truth is my truth, and your truth is your truth,' and neither can anyone else.

- Davies
 
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#23
Satan is a created being, an angel who fell Therefore he is not a god.

As a result every other "god" is a man-created being, hence non existent
Scripture refers to the god of this world, who blinds unbelievers' minds. 2 Corinthians 4:4

I thought maybe he was real - yes, even despite the lower case g - and in fact the devil, and that some believed that that was Allah.

But I gather you think not, that you think Allah is a non-existent entity.
 
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#24
Scripture refers to the god of this world, who blinds unbelievers' minds. 2 Corinthians 4:4

I thought maybe he was real - yes, even despite the lower case g - and in fact the devil, and that some believed that that was Allah.

But I gather you think not, that you think Allah is a non-existent entity.
Hi Kaliani,

That is an excellent point, though I think there is no such being as Allah. Satan on the other hand is very real. But on the other hand, Satan clearly has used Islam as a stronghold. I feel like Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof.

Here is another example:
Matthew 6:24

New King James Version (NKJV)

You Cannot Serve God and Riches

24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.


In this case, the god is money. Look at the rich younger ruler. When Jesus told him to give up his wealth and to follow Him, he walked away sad because his god was money.
Luke 18:23

New King James Version (NKJV)

23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.

I'm not answering for By Grace, I'll be over there in that small corner now. lol

- Davies
 
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#25
Scripture refers to the god of this world, who blinds unbelievers' minds. 2 Corinthians 4:4
Here are the words of Jesus, and I am neither calling you names, or suggesting it here, OK?
John 6:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Please notice Jesus calls Satan "from the beginning" that means before the Earth was created.
Satan is a killer "from the beginning".
Satan does not abide (live in) the truth
Satan has ZERO truth in him
Satan speaks only lies.
Satan speaks only of his self interests
Satan is a liar
Satan is the Father of Lies

Can't get clearer on that, and to call Satan the "god of this age" is to recognize that he makes EVERYONE but believers spiritually blind so that they are blind to the simpleness of the Scripture when it comes to salvation

So you can get the entire verse in context, I place it here:
2 Corinthians 4:. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them
I thought maybe he was real - yes, even despite the lower case g - and in fact the devil, and that some believed that that was Allah.
Satan is real, make no mistake about that; but he is not Allah because Allah is created in the imagination of Mohammad.

But I gather you think not, that you think Allah is a non-existent entity.
What is your view of Allah, Kaliani? What have you been taught by your Muslim sisters?
 
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#26
Is Allah a false god in the sense that he doesn't exist?

Or does he exist but is actually, well, the devil?
Before Mohammed came along, there were three "religions" in Arabia: Judaism, Christianity, and the polytheism practiced by each of the many Arab tribes throughout the region. Mohammed comes along (I'm paraphrasing the history here) and decides to unite the Arabs but cannot do that as long as they are all bickering over which of their "gods" is greater. So Mohammed declares monotheism to be true and settles on the name of a "high god" from the pre-Islamic pantheon of gods who was worshiped in Mecca.

You can read more about it here:

http://www.nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html

A search of Wikipedia quotes Islamic scholars that deny the information in the link provided, but I'll leave it to you to decide who is more credible in this regard.

Now, as to the question of whether Allah is just a "false god" created in the minds of its worshipers or he really exists as the devil, my take on it is this: Allah is a toxic spiritual influence that has poisoned the minds of converts for centuries and caused them to remain stuck in the barbarity and traditions of the 7th century. It is a religion based on a falsehood that attempts to convert people at the point of a sword or gun and kills them if they don't. And it is as much a political ideology as a religious one.

In short, there is a spirit of deep deception at work in the minds of those who adhere to its tenets and dealing with it requires prayer and wisdom to deal with the spiritual aspects of it, and vigilance to deal with its political ambitions. As long as Islamists are killing innocents around the world (even in places where America has not bombed them!), and so-called "moderate" Muslims remain silent on the barbarity of their brethern, Islam will remain a threat to good, law-abiding, peaceful people everywhere regardless of what's behind it.

:twocents
 
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#27
Thank you By Grace and Stormcrow.

By Grace, when I made my guess as to the identity of Allah, you disagreed with me and I see no need to start another argument with you on the exact same thing.

But the reason I ask is that I have heard it put forth that not all the false gods in the OT were just pieces of rocks, but some were actually demons. Especially the ones that required human sacrifice.

For all I know, there may be some who think Allah is in this bracket.
 
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#28
I have heard it put forth that not all the false gods in the OT were just pieces of rocks, but some were actually demons. Especially the ones that required human sacrifice. For all I know, there may be some who think Allah is in this bracket.
Jesus said we would know a tree by its fruit. He did not say we would know it by its root.

It doesn't matter what's ultimately behind it: what kind of fruit is it producing in the world? If the fruit is bad, the root is bad. And the fruit of Islam - as I see it - is very, very bad.
 
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#29
historically, the arabs worshipped a lot of gods. allah was one of the major gods. muhammed picked him and called him the one true god. most arabs didn't want to go along with it but muhammeds' army changed minds. allah is the crescent moon god. that's why all muslim countries have a crescent moon on their flags. as a christian, i worship the one who created the crescent moon.
 
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#30
Thank you By Grace and Stormcrow.

By Grace, when I made my guess as to the identity of Allah, you disagreed with me and I see no need to start another argument with you on the exact same thing.
I really have no idea what your position is. You state in the avatar that you are not a Christian, so that means that you could be a Muslim, or an atheist, or a seeker, or an agnostic or...
Therefore I assumed that you MAY be a Muslim, and was very terse and factual. My aim was to address your words, and not your person. If you believe that I was doing the latter, then I apologize.

But the reason I ask is that I have heard it put forth that not all the false gods in the OT were just pieces of rocks, but some were actually demons. Especially the ones that required human sacrifice.
For sure, behind EVERY idol there is a demon. That is because humans are created in the image of God, and Satan hates God. Because humans are the only beings that bear that image of God, Satan assigns his demons, as an army general would do, to create a pitfall into which humans will fall. There were idols that were worshiped by throwing infants through a big fire, and hoping they would come out on the other side. There were others that required sex orgies as a form or worship. So the fact is that EVERY idol is an attempt to replace the one, true God with something that desecrates humanity and blasphemes God simultaneously.

For all I know, there may be some who think Allah is in this bracket.
Well Allah is a false god, therefore he is a demonically-inspired idol, by definition.

Please tell us YOUR take on Allah. That was the OP, and several have asked you your opinion.
 
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#31
historically, the arabs worshipped a lot of gods. allah was one of the major gods. muhammed picked him and called him the one true god. most arabs didn't want to go along with it but muhammeds' army changed minds. allah is the crescent moon god. that's why all muslim countries have a crescent moon on their flags. as a christian, i worship the one who created the crescent moon.
jasonc
 
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#32
I have read ...and heard some muslims say allah is not the same as the Christian God. Some Christian or most Christians say the same. (Any thread on this topic already???:biggrinunno). But who is allah, really?
Hi Classik, Here is the Spiritual reason allah is not the same God.
  • Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?
    https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/december-2013/do...

    Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god? These are questions many Christians are asking these days, and for good reason.

    Allah, the Muslim god started out as a religion called Zoroaster from Zarathushtra. (Google it) He was a prophet of ancient Iran in the seventh and sixth centuries and fanned out to Persia and Afghanistan. Later on it was mixed with Judaism Read (2 Kings 17:22-41). This will explain a lot.
Christ in me
Douglas Summers
 
B

bbyrd009

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#33
interesting to note that to Askenazis--with whom we have an incestuous relationship--Christians are overwhelmingly viewed--except possibly by the younger generation, the ones going to jail for protesting Apartheid right now--as being the same as Muslims, that is, Gentiles, yet the Qur'an plainly acknowledges that Christ has come in the flesh, and that one must follow Christ or be doomed (in more than one place, but i think that is a paraphrase from "the Heifer")

so, for what it's worth, you might go by the fruit, and if you accuse Muslims of false "beliefs," then you should witness any sins committed upon you by the many Muslims that surround you right now-

-that i might be in agreement with you-

-or, for that matter, even witness the last interaction with one of your neighbors who happens to be Muslim, that you did not initiate, ie getting a squishie in their quickie mart or whatever. Let's hear it.

cuz funny that i note them as being the most oppressed ones, yet it is in their Book that i read the clearest passage in Witness of "anyone evidencing the fruit, works unto rebound (repentance), should be considered a brother," and, having lived in the Mideast, went to Shemen Sasson in Jerusalem, lived under Sharia Law, i can say with confidence that no story will be witnessed here, or at the very least that past solicitations of this exact nature have yet to elicit any such stories, not a single one, yet, and i don't expect any now, with all due respect.

While they are certainly just people, i have never had a problem with any practicing Muslim yet, and i have found them the easiest of all to meet in the air, with the possible exception of Dharmis or Daoists, and that is likely only because i am extremely white, and so naturally engender some bit of angst among those whose weddings and other social gatherings are only too often being drone-bombed by the country my nation finds itself in, and which i am inevitably initially associated with.
 
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#34
interesting to note that to Askenazis--with whom we have an incestuous relationship--Christians are overwhelmingly viewed--except possibly by the younger generation, the ones going to jail for protesting Apartheid right now--as being the same as Muslims, that is, Gentiles, yet the Qur'an plainly acknowledges that Christ has come in the flesh, and that one must follow Christ or be doomed (in more than one place, but i think that is a paraphrase from "the Heifer")

so, for what it's worth, you might go by the fruit, and if you accuse Muslims of false "beliefs," then you should witness any sins committed upon you by the many Muslims that surround you right now-

-that i might be in agreement with you-

-or, for that matter, even witness the last interaction with one of your neighbors who happens to be Muslim, that you did not initiate, ie getting a squishie in their quickie mart or whatever. Let's hear it.

cuz funny that i note them as being the most oppressed ones, yet it is in their Book that i read the clearest passage in Witness of "anyone evidencing the fruit, works unto rebound (repentance), should be considered a brother," and, having lived in the Mideast, went to Shemen Sasson in Jerusalem, lived under Sharia Law, i can say with confidence that no story will be witnessed here, or at the very least that past solicitations of this exact nature have yet to elicit any such stories, not a single one, yet, and i don't expect any now, with all due respect.
Hi bbyrd, if anyone would study the information and Scriptures in Post # 32, It will answer the question asked in post #1. Sometimes it is a bother for people to check references. Especially 2 kings Chapter 17. This is where allah was conjured.
Christ in me
Douglas Summers

While they are certainly just people, i have never had a problem with any practicing Muslim yet, and i have found them the easiest of all to meet in the air, with the possible exception of Dharmis or Daoists, and that is likely only because i am extremely white, and so naturally engender some bit of angst among those whose weddings and other social gatherings are only too often being drone-bombed by the country my nation finds itself in, and which i am inevitably initially associated with.
 
B

bbyrd009

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#35
Hi bbyrd, if anyone would study the information and Scriptures in Post # 32, It will answer the question asked in post #1. Sometimes it is a bother for people to check references. Especially 2 kings Chapter 17. This is where allah was conjured.
Christ in me
Douglas Summers
Mr Summers, no doubt you have convinced yourself of "you four and no more," (and "Christ in me," for that matter, with all due respect) but i'm afraid your Witness is lying to you, through absolutely no fault of Its own, and if you would just put the broom down, and pick up a shovel, with all due respect, your reference would quickly out Itself to be in fact my Witness, rather than yours, especially with a more holistic reflection of Scripture.

i am advised, quite plainly--by the Air, you might say, whispering to me, right now--to seek the fruit of works unto rebound ("repentance," surely, to you), and to test any foreign spirits to ensure that they admit that Christ has come in the flesh, and the Muslims which i have lived among, in their nations, have for the most part overwhelmingly passed these tests with flying colors, as has their Book, multiple references available, should you need further Witnesses; please just ask.

i guess you prolly think all those Refs to homosexuality are applicable to today's "gays"--rather than references to an Apostate relationship with Christ, complete with prophets committing adultery--and surely the Mark of Cain is "black people," no doubt?

Now, if you have a witness, from among the many untoward experiences with your Muslim neighbors, that currently surround you, in their thousands, then BAM please tell me your story, as i said, so that i might be in agreement with you--or, for that matter, a witness of the last uninvited encounter that you had with any of these surely thousands of Muslims might also be illuminating? thank you
 
B

bbyrd009

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#36
why are you judging another man's servant?

Love believes all things...

In My Father's house are many abodes; yet if not I would have told you

etcetc
 
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#37
Mr Summers, no doubt you have convinced yourself of "you four and no more," (and "Christ in me," for that matter, with all due respect) but i'm afraid your Witness is lying to you, through absolutely no fault of Its own, and if you would just put the broom down, and pick up a shovel, with all due respect, your reference would quickly out Itself to be in fact my Witness, rather than yours, especially with a more holistic reflection of Scripture.

i am advised, quite plainly--by the Air, you might say, whispering to me, right now--to seek the fruit of works unto rebound ("repentance," surely, to you), and to test any foreign spirits to ensure that they admit that Christ has come in the flesh, and the Muslims which i have lived among, in their nations, have for the most part overwhelmingly passed these tests with flying colors, as has their Book, multiple references available, should you need further Witnesses; please just ask.

i guess you prolly think all those Refs to homosexuality are applicable to today's "gays"--rather than references to an Apostate relationship with Christ, complete with prophets committing adultery--and surely the Mark of Cain is "black people," no doubt?

Now, if you have a witness, from among the many untoward experiences with your Muslim neighbors, that currently surround you, in their thousands, then BAM please tell me your story, as i said, so that i might be in agreement with you--or, for that matter, a witness of the last uninvited encounter that you had with any of these surely thousands of Muslims might also be illuminating? thank you
Sorry bbyrd, I have not a clue of what you posted here???? Nor does it have anything to do with what I posted. Just because you lived among Muslims does not make you an authority on the Bible. The darker skinned race comes from Noah's son Ham (Genesis Chapter 10) (Psalms 105: 23) My only point was, Study 2 Kings chapter 17 to see how the Muslim religion became allah. As far as Christ in me, It is the Lords doing. For someone to rebuke the work of the Spirit of Grace in a born again believe is to insult the Spirit of grace. It is your type of graceless and condescending post that causes undo loss of fellowship among believers. I have been chastised by the monitors for far less.
just study the Scripture text in (2 kings 17:24-41) and let me know what you think.

In Christ
Douglas Summers
 
R

Runner

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#38
Would be easy to dismiss Allah as a false idol. But if we do so, there's a problem. 1.5 billion muslims in the world genuinely believe that their idea of Allah is correct. By saying that they are following a false idol we basically tell them that they have fallen for an absolute error, or a fundamental lie.
Many muslims would probably claim that they have had some sort of encounter with their God, or can feel His presence, or strongly feel that their faith is right. They will find intellectual arguments for why their faith and their scripture is superior to any other. They live their lives by the rules of Islam and experience happiness (most moslems aren't angry violent extremists). So in other words: they are deeply convinced of the rightfullness of their religion, on the intellectual, emotional, scriptural and practical level.
But we are convinced they all err?
If it is possible for a group humans to absolutely err in such a profound way about a fundamental thing like the nature of God, then this kind of fundamental error can happen to ALL humans, including ourselves. There is no certainty that our own way to think of and to live with God is right. We, too, may have fallen for a false idol.

So in order to save my own faith in God (and to preserve my intellectual consistency) I must admit, that there is at least a chance that the muslim way with God (who they name by the Arab word Allah) is as right as I think ours is, and that there is some divine explanation for the contradictions we see between both religions.
A wise post, but wise posts seem to get lost in the crowd on this forum. Even as a Christian, intellectual honesty requires me to admit it is certainly possible that Christianity is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated upon humanity, even to the extent of naturalistic atheism being absolutely true. It's an excellent exercise in humility to occasionally pause and remind yourself that all the metaphysical "truths" upon which you confidently base your earthly life may in fact be 100% bogus.

Christianity and Islam are both monotheistic religions purporting to worship the sole Creator of all that is. So at least to this extent, they worship the "same God." The biggest Christian offense to Muslims seems to be the Trinity, which they regard as utterly incompatible with the oneness of Allah. The Trinity, with Jesus the Son being part of it, is fundamental to Christianity. So to this degree Christians and Muslims cannot be worshipping the "same God" - unless, as you suggest, there is some way to reconcile these views at the cosmic level that is beyond human comprehension. As to their respective understandings of the Creator, Christianity may be true and Islam false, Islam may be true and Christianity false, or both may be false (or true, although the differences do seem rather stark and fundamental).

The God and theology of Christianity certainly seem more appealing to me, but nothing says the Creator must be appealing or even good. The evidence for Christianity being true seems considerably stronger to me than does the evidence for Islam being true - but not to a level of certainty by any means. It's a mistake to conclude that because Christianity seems more appealing and evidence-based to me, Christianity must therefore be "true" and Islam "false." I have simply chosen to align myself with Christianity, to live as though it were true, and to hope it is true. But it might not be.

Many Christians seemingly cannot live with this ambiguity. The Bible, they say, is by God the Word of God, Jesus' divinity was by God conclusively proven by the miracles and the Resurrection, yada yada yada. If you allow yourself even to entertain any other possibility, you are not a "real" Christian. But other religions have "truths" that are equally compelling to them. Hindu mystical experiences and miracles are as amazing as Christian ones, Muslims have convincing (to them) mystical encounters with Allah, and so it goes. The core problem, it seems to me, is that True Believers of all stripes tend to use the term "true" about matters they cannot possibly know are "true" in the sense in which they are using the term. Christian belief, as Christian theologian Alvin Plantinga has argued, may be "warranted" (or "justified'), but this certainly does not mean it is "true beyond all doubt, to the exclusion of all other religions possibly being true."

Both ostensibly Christian communities and Islamic ones can fall into bizarre beliefs and commit bizarre and destructive deeds. This does not mean Christianity's God is actually fictional or demonic or Islam's Allah is actually fictional or demonic. Assuming Christianity is true, I might conclude Allah is simply a fiction - a warped understanding of the true Creator. Demonic forces might well use this warped understanding to further their agenda, just as the same demonic forces might use warped beliefs within ostensibly Christian communities to further their agenda (even though those communities ostensibly worship the "true" God), but I don't know how we could confidently assert that Allah is an evil being with an independent existence. It seems to me an honest Muslim would have to say the same thing - he or she is intellectually and emotionally committed to Allah to the exclusion of the divinity of Jesus, but the Trinity might ultimately prove to be true.