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Bible Study Who is the ''Angel of the Lord''?

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jgredline

jgredline

Member
Ok,
As I got to debating this with some other people and even a bible teacher at my church, I thought it would make an interesting topic to talk about and learn.

Who is the Angel of the Lord? not an angel, but The Angel

Here are some examples of scripture wher The Angel is mentioned.

Gen 22:11-16
Gen 30:11-13
Gen 48:15-16
Ex 3:2-6
Ex 13:21-Ex 14:19
Judges 6:22-24

There are many others, but this is a good place to start.
Blessings,
Jg
 
In some passages in the OT I'm almost convinced that the Angel of the Lord could be preincarnate Jesus. The instance with Joshua before the attack of Jericho is a prime example for this possibility.

Just my thoughts.

God Bless,

~Josh
 
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

2, 3. the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire--It is common in Scripture to represent the elements and operations of nature, as winds, fires, earthquakes, pestilence, everything enlisted in executing the divine will, as the "angels" or messengers of God. But in such cases God Himself is considered as really, though invisibly, present. Here the preternatural fire may be primarily meant by the expression "angel of the Lord"; but it is clear that under this symbol, the Divine Being was present, whose name is given (Exodus 3:4-6), and elsewhere called the angel of the covenant, Jehovah-Jesus. Jameison-Faussett-Brown Commentary
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It is common in Scripture to represent the elements and operations of nature, as winds, fires, earthquakes, pestilence, everything enlisted in executing the divine will, as the "angels" or messengers of God.
Click to expand...

This is true, and how it is used sometimes in the Psalms attests to this, but let's not forget that angels were also refered to as appearing as men in white clothing sometimes, or just simply appearing as men (such as those who visited Abraham, Lot, and Joshua). Also notice the parallelism between Joshua 5:15 and what God told Moses at the burning bush, and the Angel of the Lord was present at both. I'm not sure what overall point that you were trying to make with that but I thought that I would add this in.

~Josh
 
There are two terms that are used to describe the pre-incarnate Christ in the Old Testament..

Christophany : These are appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ in the flesh. In particularly the OT. Some liberal theologians say there is no such thing as a Christophany or a and others will say that it is Christ appearing to people after the resurrection. This is simply not true. A Christophony is Jesus pre-incarnate in the OT.. For the trinitarian this poses no problems as it affirms the deity of Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.

Theophany: The Old Testament also records a number of theophanies. A theophany is “an appearance of God.†In these theophanies God took on various visible forms to show himself to people. God appeared to Abraham (Gen. 18:1–33), Jacob (Gen. 32:28–30), the people of Israel (as a pillar of cloud by day and fire by night: Ex. 13:21–22), the elders of Israel (Ex. 24:9–11), Manoah and his wife (Judg. 13:21–22), Isaiah (Isa. 6:1), and others.
A much greater visible manifestation of God than these Old Testament theophanies was found in the person of Jesus Christ himself. He could say, “He who has seen me has seen the Father†(John 14:9). And John contrasts the fact that no one has ever seen God with the fact that God’s only Son has made him known to us: “No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God,4 who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known†(John 1:18, author’s translation). Furthermore, Jesus is “the image of the invisible God†(Col. 1:15), and is “the bright radiance of the glory of God†and is “the exact representation of his nature†(Heb. 1:3 author’s translation). Thus, in the person of Jesus we have a unique visible manifestation of God in the New Testament that was not available to believers who saw theophanies in the Old Testament.
But how will we see God in heaven? We will never be able to see or know all of God, for “his greatness is unsearchable†(Ps. 145:3; cf. John 6:46; 1 Tim. 1:17; 6:16; 1 John 4:12, which were mentioned above). And we will not be able to seeâ€â€at least with our physical eyesâ€â€the spiritual being of God. Nevertheless, Scripture says that we will see God himself. Jesus says, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God†(Matt. 5:8). We will be able to see the human nature of Jesus, of course (Rev. 1:7). But it is not clear in exactly what sense we will be able to “see†the Father and the Holy Spirit, or the divine nature of God the Son (cf. Rev. 1:4; 4:2–3, 5; 5:6). Perhaps the nature of this “seeing†will not be known to us until we reach heaven.
Although what we see will not be an exhaustive vision of God, it will be a completely true and clear and real vision of God. We shall see “face to face†(1 Cor. 13:12) and “we shall see him as he is†(1 John 3:2). The most remarkable description of the open, close fellowship with God that we shall experience is seen in the fact that in the heavenly city “the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him; they shall see his face and his name shall be on their foreheads†(Rev. 22:3–4).
When we realize that God is the perfection of all that we long for or desire, that he is the summation of everything beautiful or desirable, then we realize that the greatest joy of the life to come will be that we “shall see his face.†This seeing of God “face to face†has been called the beatific vision meaning “the vision that makes us blessed or happy†(“beatific†is from two Latin words, beatus “blessed,†and facere “to makeâ€Â). To look at God changes us and makes us like him: “We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is†(1 John 3:2; cf. 2 Cor. 3:18). This vision of God will be the consummation of our knowing God and will give us full delight and joy for all eternity: Àœin your presence there is fulness of joy, in your right hand are pleasures for evermore†(Ps. 16:11).
Wayen Grudem

Here is a website that was provided to me by my friend and brother StoveBolts. Its an easy to read and understand.

http://www.goarch.org/en/special/listen ... any/learn/
 
vic said:
I'm not trying to be a wise guy :-D but could you define angel for us?
Click to expand...

To put it simple with background an angle is a spiritual messenger and or representative of God.

Roots going to the Hebrew word mal'ak {mal-awk'} for messenger, representative and angel.
 
jgredline said:
Ok,
As I got to debating this with some other people and even a bible teacher at my church, I thought it would make an interesting topic to talk about and learn.

Who is the Angel of the Lord? not an angel, but The Angel

Here are some examples of scripture wher The Angel is mentioned.

Gen 22:11-16
Gen 30:11-13
Gen 48:15-16
Ex 3:2-6
Ex 13:21-Ex 14:19
Judges 6:22-24

There are many others, but this is a good place to start.
Blessings,
Jg
Click to expand...


There does not seem to be an absolute in the term "the angel of the Lord," and 'an angel of the Lord'. It seems as if sometimes it is God. For example, the passage of the burning bush, as well as other references to that passage.
"The angel of the Lord" appeared to the shepherds in the field the night Christ was born. I believe that could also be "an angel".
Just some things I found in my research:


Gen 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Deu 31:15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.

Gen 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother.

Gen 35:9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.

Gen 48:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

Exd 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed.

Exd 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here [am] I.

Exd 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and [seen] that which is done to you in Egypt:

Exd 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

1Sa 3:21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.

1Ki 3:5 In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.


In this passage, it seems clear that "the angel of the Lord" is an angel, not a manifestation of the Lord Himself.

1Ch 21:27 And the LORD commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof......
.....1Ch 21:30 But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the LORD.



Lev 9:23 And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of the congregation, and came out, and blessed the people: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the people.


Num 16:42 And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the LORD appeared.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Luk 1:11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

Luk 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

Act 5:19 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,

Act 12:7 And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon [him], and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from [his] hands.....
.....Act 12:11 And when Peter was come to himself, he said, Now I know of a surety, that the Lord hath sent his angel, and hath delivered me out of the hand of Herod, and [from] all the expectation of the people of the Jews.


Some of the things I look for when reading passages like this, would be if the person who witnesses this 'angel of the Lord' bows to him, if the angel tells him to, or allows it. Unless it is very clear that it is God Himself, I usually read it as an angel that has been sent by God.
In the same way one might say ~ a messenger from the mayor.
 
oscar3 said:
The Angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ himself.
Click to expand...

So the Jehovah's Witnesses are right after all - Christ is an angel?
 
BradtheImpaler said:
So the Jehovah's Witnesses are right after all - Christ is an angel?
Click to expand...

Brad
''An angel'' would simply mean an angel like Michael or Gabriel, even Satan
''The Angel'' would be Jesus in-carnite. This is why wording, context and translations are crucial.

blessings,
Jg
 
jgredline said:
Brad
''An angel'' would simply mean an angel like Michael or Gabriel, even Satan
''The Angel'' would be Jesus in-carnite. This is why wording, context and translations are crucial.
Click to expand...

"An" angel, "the" angel, still angel. That's what the JW's believe the pre-incarnite Jesus to be.

So when are you going to start knocking on doors? :wink:
 
BradtheImpaler said:
So the Jehovah's Witnesses are right after all - Christ is an angel?
Click to expand...


Brad
To be honest it is a hard concept to understand. It is better to read the stories in the bible and you will see it is Jesus.
 
Interesting. I never really gave thought to this. I always thought it was just an angel the lord sent to appear and give messages to those people.
 
Who is the angel of the Lord?

Seems to me, fellow Bible students, that we should remember that "angel" is a transliteration of the Greek word for "messenger, agent"--angellos.
The Hebrew word is malak.

The same words are translated "messenger" when speaking of a man, and "angel" when it is obviously a spirit being.

If, from the context it would appear that it was Christ as the Word, the Expression of God, then, it could have been translated that it was the Agent, or the Messenger of God. The idea that Christ Jesus before he became flesh was an angel just doesn't hold water!

And from what I read, it was only at Bethlehem that the Word became flesh.

In the various theophanies, the "Lord" had the appearance of a man, just as angels do, when that is God's will. They had that power. So did the Word.

As for "the angel of the Lord" being Christ before His incarnation, I don't buy that, even though the article "the" is used. Why? First, because there are verses where it speaks of "the angels of the Lord", with the article "the".

Christ can't be all of them. And the second point is: the same expression "the angel of the Lord" is used in the NT many times, as Gabby listed in her post. At these times Christ was at the right hand of God the Father in heaven. So, it is obvious He isn't "the angel of the Lord".

Bick
 
As for "the angel of the Lord" being Christ before His incarnation, I don't buy that, even though the article "the" is used. Why, there are verses where it speaks of "the angels of the Lord", with the article "the".
Click to expand...

Hey, for all I know Melchizedek was pre-incarnate Jesus. For all I know it was Jesus in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. I'm not saying anything about Jesus becoming flesh before his incarnation, but he certainly could have had manifestations. And notice that when the Angel of the Lord spoke to Joshua he said to him the same thing God said at Sinai, to take off his sandals because he way standing on Holy Ground.
 
Bick
Are you a trinitarian?
Do you believe Jesus is God?
I an all my years of studing the bible and differant theological views it seems that only people who do not believe in the triune God head or that Jesus is God don't believe THE ANGEL of the Lord to be Christ in carnit.

No matter, your view is wrong. While there are some and infact more angels that are messengers, the ones I listed are Christ. You need to look at context.
We are talking OT here.
 
Bick
Are you a Mormon or JW? This is what it sounds like to me, although I am far from an expert.
 
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