Who is the AntiChrist?

Discussion in 'Preterism Discussions' started by Paloma, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. Eugene

    Eugene Staff Member Moderator

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    Thread reopened for replies.
     
  2. AGustOfWind

    AGustOfWind Member

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    There is no antichrist.

    An antichrist is anybody who denies God. Simple as that.
     
  3. Allen Wynne

    Allen Wynne Member

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    The battle for first place begins again.
     
  4. DaveRC

    DaveRC Member

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    Ditto!
     
  5. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Denying the word of God, does not make it go away.

    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18

    The antichrist is coming.

    Not a antichrist, but the antichrist.

    He will be revealed in his own time, and will be destroyed by Jesus Christ Himself, by the brightness of His coming.

    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


    Do you know the name of this false messiah, whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming?



    JLB
     
  6. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    I wonder if you use this same translation all the time?
     
  7. DaveRC

    DaveRC Member

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    And Christ also is coming to bring relief to the Church of Thessalonica, 2 Thessalonians 1-9, or were these empty words to this 1st century church?
     
  8. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    How does that version translate 1John 5 :7
     
  9. DaveRC

    DaveRC Member

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    What is the Greek word and what does it mean translated into English as "relief" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7?

    425. anesis
    Strong's Concordance
    anesis: a loosening, relaxation
    Original Word: ἄνεσις, εως, ἡ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
    Transliteration: anesis
    Phonetic Spelling: (an'-es-is)
    Short Definition: relief, remission, indulgence, freedom, rest
    Definition: relief, remission, indulgence, freedom, rest.
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from aniémi
    Definition
    a loosening, relaxation
    NASB Translation
    ease (1), freedom (1), relief (1), rest (2).
     
  10. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Christ Jesus is coming to destroy the antichrist and gather all His people at the Resurrection/Rapture... not just the Church at Thessalonica.

    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


    Have you been physically resurrected from the dead because you have died, and were buried?
    Do you have the hope of being resurrected from the dead, and be together with your loved ones you have died before you?


    JLB
     
  11. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Please don't wonder, just read my signature.


    If I use another translation, it's the KJV, to compare the different way a word is used.

    Example:

    Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
    Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

    Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    Hebrews 4:6 KJV



    JLB
     
  12. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18

    The antichrist is coming.

    Not a antichrist, but the antichrist.



    JLB
     
  13. DaveRC

    DaveRC Member

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    The Rapture or Resurrection? Because Jesus said the Resurrection occurs on the last day (John 6:39-40,44,54) or is that 1,003.5 or 1,007 years before the last day at the "Rapture"?

    Have you misread the bible, flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50 and Matthew 22:30).

    Meanwhile, the word "angel" had many, many meanings both in the Old Testament and New Testament.

    Read these articles thoroughly:

    4397. malak
    Strong's Concordance
    malak: a messenger
    Original Word: מַלְאָך
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: malak
    Phonetic Spelling: (mal-awk')
    Short Definition: angel
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from an unused word
    Definition
    a messenger
    NASB Translation
    ambassadors (2), angel (101), angels (9), envoys (1), messenger (24), messengers (76).


    Brown-Driver-Briggs
    מַלְאָךְ214 noun masculine messenger; — ׳מ Exodus 23:2048t.; construct מַלְאַךְ Genesis 16:769t.; suffixes מַלְאָכִי Exodus 23:233t.; מַלְאָכוֺ Genesis 24:7,40; pluralמַלְאָכִים Genesis 32:4 63t. +מלאכים 2 Samuel 11:1 Kt ( Qrמלכים); construct מַלְאֲכֵי Genesis 28:12 11t.; מַלְאָכֶיךָ Numbers 24:12; 2 Kings 19:23; מַלְאָכֵכֵהNahum 2:14 error for מַלְאָכֵכִי =מַלְאָכַיְכִי Ges§ 91, (2) Anm. 2 or < for מַלְאָכֵךְ by dittograph from following הוֺי Köii. 1. 571).מַלְאָכָיו2Chronicles 36:15 8t.; —
    1 messenger,

    a. one sent with a messageGenesis 32:4 8t. J E; Deuteronomy 2:26, (not in P); Judges 6:35 8t.; 1 Samuel 6:21 51t. Samuel Kings, 1 Chronicles 14:1; 1 Chronicles 19:2,16; 2Chronicles 18:12; 35:21;Nehemiah 6:3; Job 1:14; Proverbs 13:17; Proverbs 17:11; Isaiah 14:32; Isaiah 18:2; Isaiah 30:4;Isaiah 37:9,14; Jeremiah 27:3;Ezekiel 17:15; Ezekiel 23:16,40;Ezekiel 30:9; Nahum 2:14; מלאכי שׁלום, messengers of peaceIsaiah 33:7.

    b. a prophet Isaiah 42:19; Isaiah 44:26; 2 Chronicles 36:15,16;Haggai 1:13; the herald of the advent מלאכי Malachi 3:1.

    c. priest Malachi 2:7, probably Ecclesiastes 5:5 (RV angel).

    d. "" מֵלִיץ Job 33:23, a messenger from God acting as an interpreter and declaring what is right (angelof RV too specific).

    e. figurative רָעִים ׳מ messengers of evil Psalm 78:49; מות ׳מ messenger of death Proverbs 16:14; "" רוחות winds his messengers Psalm 104:4.

    2 angel, as messenger of God,מלאכים with God in theophanies Genesis 19:1,15; Genesis 28:12;Genesis 32:2 (JE), praising him;Psalm 103:20; Psalm 148:2; in his sight not without error Job 4:18 charged with the care of the pious Psalm 91:11; elsewhere singular sent to a prophet 1 Kings 13:18; 1 Kings 19:5,7; 2 Kings 1:3,15;Zechariah 1:9 18t. in Zechariah 1-6; excellent, wise, powerful 1 Samuel 29:9; 2 Samuel 14:17,20; 2 Samuel 19:28; Zechariah 12:8; encamping about the faithfulPsalm 34:8; chasing his enemiesPsalm 35:5; Psalm 35:6; destroying by judgment of Yahweh2 Samuel 24:16,17 = 1 Chronicles 21:12-30; 2 Kings 19:35 = Isaiah 37:36 2Chronicles 32:21.

    3 the theophanic angel ה֯א֠להים ׳מin the story of E: Genesis 21:17;Genesis 31:11; Exodus 14:19, also in Judges 6:20; Judges 13:6,9;יהוה ׳מ in the story of J: Genesis 16:7,9,10,11; Genesis 22:11,15;Exodus 3:2; Numbers 22:22,23,24,25,26,27,31,32,34,35 and in Judges 2:1; Judges 2:4;Judges 5:23; Judges 6:11; Judges 6:12; Judges 6:21 (twice in verse);Judges 6:22 (twice in verse);Judges 13:3,13,15,16 (twice in verse); Judges 13:17,18,20 (twice in verse); Judges 13:21; הַמַּלְאָךְGenesis 48:16 (E); מַלְאָךְ Exodus 23:20 (E), Exodus 33:2; Numbers 20:16 (JE), Hosea 12:5; מַלְאָכִיExodus 23:23 (E), Exodus 32:34(J); מַלְאָכוֺ Genesis 24:7,40 (J),פניו ׳מ Malachi 3:1 (referring to the ancient מלאך); הכרית ׳מMalachi 3:1 (referring to the advent of ׳י for judgment, see BrMP 473). The theophanic angel is not mentioned in D and P.

    לאך (√ of following; Biblical Hebrew לאך, מַלְאָח).



    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    ambassador, angel, king, messenger
    From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically, of God, i.e. An angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher) -- ambassador, angel, king, messenger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  14. DaveRC

    DaveRC Member

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    32. aggelos
    Strong's Concordance
    aggelos: an angel, messenger
    Original Word: ἄγγελος, ου, ὁ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
    Transliteration: aggelos
    Phonetic Spelling: (ang'-el-os)
    Short Definition: an angel, messenger
    Definition: a messenger, generally a (supernatural) messenger from God, an angel, conveying news or behests from God to men.
    HELPS Word-studies
    32 ággelos – properly, a messenger or delegate – either human (Mt 11:10; Lk 7:24, 9:52; Gal 4:14; Js 2:25) or heavenly (a celestial angel); someone sent (by God) to proclaim His message.

    32 (ággelos) is used 176 times in the NT (usually of heavenly angels), but only the context determines whether a human or celestial messenger is intended. For example, 32 (ággelos) in Rev 1:20 can refer to heavenly angels or key leaders (perhaps pastors) of the seven churches.

    [32 (ággelos) can refer to "a human messenger" (cf. John the Baptist, Mt 11:10, quoting Mal 3:1; see also Lk 7:24, 9:52). 32 /ággelos (plural,angeloi) refers to heavenly angels over 150 times in the NT, i.e. spiritual beings created by God to serve His plan.

    In Rev 2, 3, "angels" seems to refer to heavenly angels that serve God in conjunction with these seven local churches.

    (Rev 2:1) – "Probably 'the angels of the churches' (Rev 1:20, 2:1, etc.) – i.e. really angels, and not pastors" (DNTT, Vol 1, 103).]

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 32: ἄγγελος

    ἄγγελος, , ὁ,
    1. a messenger, envoy, one who is sent: Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24, 27; Luke 9:52; Mark 1:2; James 2:25. (From Homer down.)

    2. In the Scriptures, both of the Old Testament and of the New Testament, one of that host of heavenly spirits that, according alike to Jewish and Christian opinion, wait upon the monarch of the universe, and are sent by him to earth, now to execute his purposes (Matthew 4:6, 11;Matthew 28:2; Mark 1:13; Luke 16:22; Luke 22:43 (L brackets WH reject the passage); Acts 7:35; ;Galatians 3:19, cf. Hebrews 1:14), now to make them known to men (Luke 1:11, 26; Luke 2:9ff; Acts 10:3; Acts 27:23; Matthew 1:20;Matthew 2:13; Matthew 28:5; John 20:12f); hence, the frequent expressions ἄγγελος (angel, messenger of God, מַלְאָך) andἄγγελοι κυρίου or ἄγγελοι τοῦ Θεοῦ. They are subject not only to God but also to Christ (Hebrews 1:4ff; 1 Peter 3:22, cf. Ephesians 1:21;Galatians 4:14), who is described as hereafter to return to judgment surrounded by a multitude of them as servants and attendants:Matthew 13:41, 49; Matthew 16:27; Matthew 24:31; Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7, cf.Jude 1:14. Single angels have the charge of separate elements; as fire, Revelation 14:18; waters,Revelation 16:5, cf. Revelation 7:1;John 5:4 (R L). Respecting theἄγγελος τῆς ἀβύσσου, Revelation 9:11, see Ἀβαδδών,

    3. Guardian angels of individuals are mentioned in Matthew 18:10;Acts 12:15. 'The angels of the churches' in Revelation 1:20;Revelation 2:1, 8, 12, 18;Revelation 3:1, 7, 14 are not their presbyters or bishops, but heavenly spirits who exercise such a superintendence and guardianship over them that whatever in their assemblies is worthy of praise or of censure is counted to the praise or the blame of their angels also, as though the latter infused their spirit into the assemblies; cf. DeWette, Düsterdieck (Alford) on Revelation 1:20, and Lücke, Einl. in d. Offenb. d. Johan. ii., p. 429f, edition 2; (Lightfoot on Philip., p. 199f). διάτούς ἀγγέλους that she may show reverence for the anqels, invisibly present in the religious assemblies of Christians, and not displease them, 1 Corinthians 11:10. ὤφθηἀγγέλοις in 1 Timothy 3:16 is probably to be explained neither of angels to whom Christ exhibited himself in heaven, nor of demons triumphed over by him in the nether world, but of the apostles, his messengers, to whom he appeared after his resurrection. This appellation, which is certainly extraordinary, is easily understood from the nature of the hymn from which the passage ἐφανερώθη ...ἐν δόξῃ seems to have been taken; cf. Winer's Grammar, 639f (594) (for other interpretations see Ellicott, at the passage). In John 1:51 (52) angels are employed, by a beautiful image borrowed fromGenesis 28:12, to represent the divine power that will aid Jesus in the discharge of his Messianic office, and the signal proofs to appear in his history of a divine superintendence. Certain of the angels have proved faithless to the trust committed to them by God, and have given themselves up to sin, Jude 1:6; 2 Peter 2:4(Enoch c. vi. etc., cf. Genesis 6:2), and now obey the devil, Matthew 25:41; Revelation 12:7, cf. 1 Corinthians 6:3 (yet on this last passage cf. Meyer; he and others maintain that ἄγγελοι without an epithet or limitation never in the N. T. signifies other than good angels). Hence, ἄγγελος Σατᾶν is tropically used in 2 Corinthians 12:7 to denote a grievous bodily malady sent by Satan. Seeδαίμων; (Sophocles' Lexicon, under the word ἄγγελος; and for the literature on the whole subjectB. D. American edition under the word Angels — and to the references there given add G. L. Hahn, Theol. des N. T., i., pp. 260-384; Delitzsch in Riehm under the word Engel; Kübel in Herzogedition 2, ibid.).

    STRONGS NT 32b: ἄγγοςἄγγος,(εος, τό (plural ἄγγη), equivalent toἀγγεῖον, which see: Matthew 13:48T Tr WH. (From Homer down; (cf. Rutherford, New Phryn., p. 23).)


    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    angel, messenger.
    From aggello (probably derived from ago; compare agele) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor -- angel, messenger.










    It is obvious to a preterist that Thessalonians and Matthew 24:31 is referring to is the Great Commission!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  15. Anto9us

    Anto9us Member

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    It's hard to reply to something pages and pages back, but I will try...

    someone posted above:

    ...Thomas the Confirmer (I think he would like my title better than Thomas the Doubter) and if He said rightly only after he stuck his fingers into the wound (after seeing the Resurrected Christ WITH HIS OWN EYES) -- the John 20:26-28 confession, "You are my LORD and my GOD...

    I would like to point out that Thomas was OFFERRED (by Jesus) to put his hand in the wound in Jesus' side -- but never did as far as we know, rather Thomas immediately said "My Lord and My God"

    Thomas the Confirmer IS a better title than "Doubting Thomas" -- he could also be called "Thomas the Brave" because once, when Jesus was going up to Jerusalem when it was very dangerous to do so -- Thomas said "well, theN, LET US GO UP AND DIE WITH HIM
     
  16. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Agreed.


    JLB
     
  17. daninthelionsden

    daninthelionsden Member

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    I think it is hard to pin any one title on any of the disciples. Thomas was all of those things...confirmer, doubter and brave. Those titles are all true of any of the disciples as well as all Christians.
     
  18. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Danial, Matthew, and The Revelation of Christ do not speak of antichrist...

    Yes i know there is off beat translation that says antichrist in The Revelation of Christ...
     
  19. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18


    It's a reference to the "false messiah", who is known by several names: man of sin, son of perdition, lawless one, the prince who is to come, the beast, the little horn, the king of the north...


    The false messiah will be revealed in his own time, and will be destroyed by the coming of the Lord.

    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:5-12



    JLB
     
  20. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Cool we agree JLB
     

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