Who is the AntiChrist?

Discussion in 'Preterism Discussions' started by Paloma, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    Matthew 24:31 refers to the Day of the Lord when Jesus returns with His saints from heaven.

    A Day we are all looking forward to.


    JLB
     
  2. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    :thud
     
  3. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,901
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
  4. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2,183
    Christian:
    Yes
    That is a Good analogy.
     
  5. Douglas Summers

    Douglas Summers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2,183
    Christian:
    Yes
    I find no Scripture that speciffically calls the man of sin "The Antichrist" only that he denies that Christ is of God, denying his deity. That in itself makes him an antichrist. For the man of Sin will set himself upon the throne to be worshiped. With that said, there are many antichrist. (2 Thess. 2:7-10) (1 John 2:18,22)
     
  6. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,901
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    many is my point..
     
  7. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

    5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2;1-12


    The language indicates that this person being described by such titles as:

    The man of sin
    son of perdition
    lawless one


    as well as the phrase... And then the lawless one will be revealed.

    When this false messiah is revealed, it is be made known to all who he is.

    Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


    • The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
    • He will be alive when the Lord returns.
    • He will be destroyed by the Lord Himself.
    • He will go to the Temple and declare himself as God.
    • He will sit in the Temple of God, as the Messiah, seated on the throne of David.


    That is a unique set of qualifications, if you ask me.




    JLB
     
  8. Elisha

    Elisha Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    I'm curious as to what you think the definition of "hour" is. And, you should be careful about basing doctrine on the wording of a translation without checking the Greek. The Antichrist isn't in the Bible. You're welcome.

    John is saying Antichrist had already arrived, and that is how he knew it was the last hour (not the last dimillennium).
     
  9. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes

    Thank you, for sharing your opinion with us. :wave


    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


    Jesus will destroy this false messiah by the brightness of His coming.


    The man of sin, aka, son of perdition, aka, the lawless one, aka the antichrist, the false messiah, who will one day sit as "God" in the Temple of God, claiming to be God: the long awaited Messiah the unbelieving Jew's have been waiting for.

    This false messiah will be revealed, "in his own time", a time that is set aside for this purpose, and is associated with temple sacrifices.

    • This is why Jesus associated him with Daniel and told the reader to understand.

    “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

    This abomination is specifically associated with the resurrection, which occurs at His coming.


    “At that time Michael shall stand up,
    The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
    And there shall be a time of trouble,
    Such as never was since there was a nation,
    Even to that time.
    And at that time your people shall be delivered,
    Every one who is found written in the book.
    2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
    Some to everlasting life,
    Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    ...11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

    13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”
    Daniel 12:1-2,11-13


    Daniel also calls him the prince who is to come.


    “And after the sixty-two weeks
    Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
    And the people of the prince who is to come
    Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
    The end of it shall be with a flood,
    And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
    But in the middle of the week
    He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
    And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
    Even until the consummation, which is determined,
    Is poured out on the desolate.”
    Daniel 9:26-27



    JLB
     
  10. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,901
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    The word antichrist just not there... Why not say what the Scripture says? why do we substitute the words we want use in place of the words written?
     
  11. Elisha

    Elisha Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    I didn't offer an opinion. I pointed out the fact that "the Antichrist" is not in the Greek manuscripts". I pointed out the fact that John declares Antichrist has already come. I pointed out the fact that John points to the coming of Antichrist for his conclusion that it was the last hour.

    You're jumping to a conclusion that the lawless one claims to be the Jewish Messiah. I don't share that opinion.

    Fact: The Roman armies were an abomination that left Jerusalem desolate (and the Temple destroyed, no more Temple for any future Antichrist to enter). Fact: Titus, who was a prince (Cesar-to-be) entered the Temple and claimed divinity for himself.

    Fact: 70 weeks of years ended in the first century. (unless you want to gut the prophetic time table by inserting an indefinite and unmentioned pause)
     
  12. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18


    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4


    The soon coming Temple will be the place where the antichrist is revealed, the man of sin, the son of perdition, the lawless one, whom the lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming.

    And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

    ..whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


    To say that the coming of the Lord is past, is to say the resurrection is past.

    Is that what your teaching us, that the coming of the Lord and the resurrection is past?


    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means;...


    The Day of the Lord is the coming of the Lord, which is a Day we are all looking forward to.

    Amen, even so come Lord Jesus.



    JLB
     
  13. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,901
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    Yup the word antichrist is there . :) I just love how your quote JLB and the pop up scripture dont completely match..

    The word antichrist is not in the Scriptures in your post #107 is it?
     
  14. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    That's all you offered, is your opinion.

    Here is your post 108 -


    I thanked you for sharing your opinion, which is what you did.

    You are certainly entitled to have an opinion.


    Here's my opinion, which comes from the scriptures:

    Three major things occur at the coming of the Lord:

    1. The resurrection.
    2. The rapture
    3. The destruction of the lawless one: the false messiah, who goes to the temple of God and claims himself as God: as the Messiah.

    He is referred to as, here in 2 Thessalonians 2.
    • The man of sin
    • The son of perdition
    • The lawless one

    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


    In Daniels he is referred to as:

    The prince who is to come.
    The Northern king
    The little horn


    In revelation he is referred to as the beast, and is associated with the number 666.

    Of him it is said:

    5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. Revelation 13:5-7

    Likewise in Daniel we see a man, described as a little horn speaking pompous words, having great authority, at the time when the Son of Man was coming in the clouds of heaven.


    7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. 9 “I watched till thrones were put in place,
    And the Ancient of Days was seated;
    His garment was white as snow,
    And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
    His throne was a fiery flame,
    Its wheels a burning fire;
    10 A fiery stream issued
    And came forth from before Him.
    A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
    Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
    The court was seated,
    And the books were opened.
    11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

    13 “I was watching in the night visions,
    And behold, One like the Son of Man,
    Coming with the clouds of heaven!

    He came to the Ancient of Days,
    And they brought Him near before Him.
    14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
    That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    Which shall not pass away,
    And His kingdom the one
    Which shall not be destroyed.
    Daniel 7:9-14


    All throughout scripture, this person is mentioned and associated with the time of the end, having great authority and is called by many different names.


    If you don't like antichrist, then pick one of the other names, that you do prefer.



    JLB
     
  15. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    Doesn't match what?


    Here it is again:

    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18



    JLB
     
  16. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    It is, but you willing close your eyes to the truth.


    Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
    1 John 2:22


    Do you believe the man of sin is a person who confesses Jesus as the Christ?

    If not, then that would make the man of sin, the antichrist.

    • A man of sin, would be an antichrist.
    • The man of sin, would be the antichrist.

    Same goes for:

    • The lawless one
    • The son of perdition.

    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8



    Just like a son of man, is a reference to a man.

    However, the Son of man is a reference to Jesus Christ, the Messiah, even though the Son of man doesn't have the words Jesus Christ in the title.



    JLB
     
  17. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,901
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    I think you read into my posts what is not there...

    What truth to yu think i have closed my eyes too?
     
  18. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,901
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    Click on the reference in your post it is just a simple different translation lighten up a bit sheesh
     
  19. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    45,901
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Christian:
    Yes
    Which of these scriptures use the word antichrist ?
     
  20. JLB

    JLB Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    18,206
    Location:
    Texas
    Christian:
    Yes
    If I posted scriptures with references to a person with these titles:

    The Lamb of God
    The Son of Man
    The Word
    The Lord of lords
    The Sun of Righteousness [Malachi 4:2]
    The King of kings
    The Holy One of Israel
    The High Priest
    The First and Last
    The Savior


    You would know that these are references to The Christ, even though Christ or Messiah are not in the title.


    Just as true, would be if I posted scriptures that have the titles:

    The son of perdition
    The lawless one
    The man of sin
    The little horn
    The beast
    The prince of is to come


    You know that these refer to the antichrist who John says is coming.


    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18


    The false messiah that will go to the temple and proclaim himself as God.
    The false messiah that will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming.



    JLB
     

Share This Page