Who made God?

[calvin]

Zeus, took the form of a swan and seduced Leda who bore Helen and Polydeuces, the children of Zeus.

A swan seducing (a human female)Leda? Such goings on! it just doesn't sound proper.
some light hearted levity...sorry....not.

 

[Jim Parker]

Matthew is the only instance of a writer beginning with a genealogy.

He's also the one writing for a Jewish audience.
They would get the 3 sets of 14.
Find a copy of Before Abraham Was by Kikowada and Quinn. It's out of print but an excellent resource. You can get a used on on Amazon.

 

[Jim Parker]

A swan seducing (a human female)Leda? Such goings on! it just doesn't sound proper.
some light hearted levity...sorry....not.

Yeah! Some people's kids! Huh?

 

[calvin]

He's also the one writing for a Jewish audience.

That is generally regarded as true, however the use of the three groups of fourteen to establish the line of David to Jesus would have appealed to the Greeks and most others I would expect.
Still the use of genealogy does need to be considered at least.

 

[Jim Parker]

however the use of the three groups of fourteen to establish the line of David to Jesus would have appealed to the Greeks and most others I would expect.

It was Jewish numerology.

Still the use of genealogy does need to be considered at least.

It's used often in Genesis "Before Abraham Was."
Gen 4: 1-2 introduces the birth of Abel and Cain and is followed by their story.
Gen 4:17ff introduces the line of Cain culminating with Lamech's taunt at verse 24.
Gen 4:25 introduces Seth.
Verse 5:1 says, "This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God."
It will continue in that manner to the birth of Noah.

 

[Cygnus]

And what do you know of a "logical corner"?
There is nothing in a genealogy that would prevent mythical characters from being included.

Zeus, took the form of a swan and seduced Leda who bore Helen and Polydeuces, the children of Zeus.
That's a brief genealogy.
Does the fact that it's a genealogy require Zeus, Leda, Helen and Polydeuces to be historical, real beings? No.

A genealogy is a generally list of names.
There is no requirement for the names to be names of real people.
It's LITERATURE.

In the ancient Middle Eastern literature, a genealogy was used to introduce a story or an episode. (Thus the "begats" in Genesis.)

And the genealogy does not have to contain all the names in the succession of ancestors. The genealogy at the beginning of Matthew's gospel has 3 sets of 14 names from Abraham to Jesus.
That is contrived for a specific purpose.
The number of David's name is 14.
Matthew, by using 3 sets of 14, is presenting Jesus as the descendant of David who will sit on his throne.

Gen 1:1 through 2:3 is a genealogy of the heavens and the earth.

the Bible you present is so watered down and illogical....I'm surprised anyone can get the meaning of salvation from it.
Perhaps you should call it the book of myths.

 

[Jim Parker]

the Bible you present is so watered down and illogical....I'm surprised anyone can get the meaning of salvation from it.
Perhaps you should call it the book of myths.

If you have something constructive to share, please do so.
No one is interested in your insults.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm not buying that. Paul wouldn't base a rule upon a metaphor. Makes no sense to do that.

The problem is when you metaphor up the bible....no one really understands it, unless the meaning of the metaphor is explained elewhere in the bible.

Cygnus,

'The definition of a metaphor is a word or phrase used to compare two unlike objects, ideas, thoughts or feelings to provide a clearer description' (Your Dictionary.com 2017. s v metaphor).

You seem to be blind to the meaning of metaphor as it is used throughout the Bible. There is no 'metaphor up the Bible'. A metaphor is a figure of speech and I have used it in this paragraph to refer to what you wrote. Which word is the metaphor?

Are you saying that you don't understand the meaning of 'blind to the meaning of a metaphor'?

Are you blind to the meaning of the metaphor that Jesus used when he said: 'I am the door' (John 10:7)?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

According to Eastern Orthodox tradition, that was the opportunity given to Adam and Eve but was not accomplished for mankind until Christ rose from the grave conquering death (the wages of sin) and establishing the resurrection of mankind in immortality and incorruption. (1 Cor 15: 52ff)

From what little I read, he seems to take a literal view of the A&E story. I don't think it was meant to be taken in that manner.

jim

Jim,

The resurrection of the dead was taught in Old Testament:, 'Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt' (Dan 12:2 NIV).

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

You seem to have difficulty articulating In English.(edit)
In post #286 you posted:::"That post does not tell me your understanding of literal interpretation. Please take the time to explain to me what you mean by literal." emphasis added. And that I did.
Then in post #307 you posted:::"I'm not asking you about the content of the authority of Scripture. I'm asking you to tell us how to interpret any document literally. Please provide a definition of 'literal interpretation'. Is that too difficult to do?"emphasis added.
From the two above cited posts of yours it would indeed seem some instruction in interpreting written language, or at best remaining focussed on any given topic is needed.
I am not here as a teacher and I do not see within the board rules any requirement for such.

calvin,

I do my best to articulate in English but it comes with an Aussie accent.

Aren't you reading this thread carefully? I've already provided my definition of literal interpretation at #304.

Oz

 

[Cygnus]

If you have something constructive to share, please do so.
No one is interested in your insults.

No insult intended. You just compared the geneology of Christ Jesus to the genealogy. of a seducing swan. You called the genealogy. of our lord and Savior a myth.
One that truly understand why that genealog was included would NEVER have made such a heritical post.

 

[Cygnus]

Cygnus,

'The definition of a metaphor is a word or phrase used to compare two unlike objects, ideas, thoughts or feelings to provide a clearer description' (Your Dictionary.com 2017. s v metaphor).

You seem to be blind to the meaning of metaphor as it is used throughout the Bible. There is no 'metaphor up the Bible'. A metaphor is a figure of speech and I have used it in this paragraph to refer to what you wrote. Which word is the metaphor?

Are you saying that you don't understand the meaning of 'blind to the meaning of a metaphor'?

Are you blind to the meaning of the metaphor that Jesus used when he said: 'I am the door' (John 10:7)?

Oz

Perhaps you don't quite understand the point. Some people call Genesis a metaphor, some a myth, some an allegory, some a so-so story and the list goes on......when I replied back with metaphor I was just using the same terminology used in a preceeding post.
When I said "metaphor up the bible" i could have used any of the above terms.
The bottom line is whan you change genesis from a literal historical account you need to change a lot of other places in the bible..inother words "metaphor up the bible"
I trust you stand corrected.

 

[Randy]

Hello, calvin here.
Are you sure the 'dry bones' are a metaphore, or would you consider 'allegory' a more germane term?

The importance is not in terms but God's abilities to create by His Spirit. God's invisible qualities can't be measured by man. While I do think "life" on earth is young getting into endless "timeline" arguments isn't productive. I focus on the importance "God created" by His will and at His command and what was created was created through His Son. (Jesus) Even thrones and authorities set up in heaven were done through Jesus. Excluding the Father of course.

Science looks at flesh and can't speak or ackknowledge spirit. I believe we are spirit in the tent of the body. God forms our spirits. Biology set in motion at the beginning (male and female) to produce offspring produces our bodies.

Randy

 

[calvin]

calvin,

I do my best to articulate in English but it comes with an Aussie accent.

Aren't you reading this thread carefully? I've already provided my definition of literal interpretation at #304.

Oz

I never said you hadn't, aren't you reading my posts carefully?

 

[calvin]

The importance is not in terms but God's abilities to create by His Spirit. God's invisible qualities can't be measured by man. While I do think "life" on earth is young getting into endless "timeline" arguments isn't productive. I focus on the importance "God created" by His will and at His command and what was created was created through His Son. (Jesus) Even thrones and authorities set up in heaven were done through Jesus. Excluding the Father of course.

Science looks at flesh and can't speak or ackknowledge spirit. I believe we are spirit in the tent of the body. God forms our spirits. Biology set in motion at the beginning (male and female) to produce offspring produces our bodies.

Randy

Hello calvin here, thank you Randy, I just love all the crossed transactions in this thread.

 

[Jim Parker]

Jim,
The resurrection of the dead was taught in Old Testament:, 'Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt' (Dan 12:2 NIV).
Oz

Yes! It most certainly was.
Unfortunately, the Sadducees didn't accept anything but the Torah as "inspired" so they missed it.

 

[OzSpen]

Perhaps you don't quite understand the point. Some people call Genesis a metaphor, some a myth, some an allegory, some a so-so story and the list goes on......when I replied back with metaphor I was just using the same terminology used in a preceeding post.
When I said "metaphor up the bible" i could have used any of the above terms.
The bottom line is whan you change genesis from a literal historical account you need to change a lot of other places in the bible..inother words "metaphor up the bible"
I trust you stand corrected.

No you don't. The 'tree of life' uses a metaphor to refer to some kind of life. The 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil' is a metaphor to demonstrate the morality of good and evil coming into the human race.

By the way, please learn to back-quote so I know the post to which you are responding.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Perhaps you don't quite understand the point. Some people call Genesis a metaphor, some a myth, some an allegory, some a so-so story and the list goes on......when I replied back with metaphor I was just using the same terminology used in a preceeding post.
When I said "metaphor up the bible" i could have used any of the above terms.
The bottom line is whan you change genesis from a literal historical account you need to change a lot of other places in the bible..inother words "metaphor up the bible"
I trust you stand corrected.

You didn't respond to the content of what I wrote at #348 that you quoted. For a sensible conversation, I need you to address the topic I wrote about. Here you are off and running with what you want to say but forgot about what I wrote.

 

[OzSpen]

I never said you hadn't, aren't you reading my posts carefully?

Please address my question to you: Did you read what I wrote at #304?

 

[calvin]

Not only did I read it, I made reference to it.edit oops no I didn't, I had a mind to but commented on 304 instead
You think certain things are metaphore, it seems because you read it somewhere....Mickelsen was it?
Two things about me.
1. I do not think many of those things you call metaphore are metaphore.
2. I do not allow any author of any commentary to take priority over the Bible.
So there is no point in my discussing anything with you because our faith platforms are entirely different.
You will never hear me say well the word of God is clear on this point, but Mickelsen thinks otherwise so he must be right.......(because he wrote a book??)
bye