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Who was the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition?

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Because the Bible illustrates patterns that repeat, you're not totally wrong here. Temple Judaism is the Jerusalem/Babylon of Revelation, but today we have Mecca/Jerusalem/Babylon which should eventually suffer the same fate.
Can you explain this with more detail. Why do you see Mecca?
 
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Media Persia conquered Babylon under Cyrus the Great(the gentile messiah promised by name from God through Isaiah) who then also freed the captives and ordered the temple rebuilt.
Oh, thank you. I forgot about Persia conquering Babylon!

I'll have to check to see if I can find scripture but I think they even provide the means to rebuild the temple.
 
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That sounds so strange to me. What have the Arabs ever had to do with killing the Prophets of Israel or the most important prophet our Lord?

How is it that the Muslims give higher regard to Jesus than the unbelieving Jews or gentiles (world) do?
They at least believe He was a prophet sent by God and if I remember correctly they even believe that He is coming back.

Here you go Deborah13. I started a different thread so I don't take this one too far off topic.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/could-mecca-be-mystery-babylon.52085/
 
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I gave them the answer in post # 101 at the tail end of the prophecy there was a kingdom to come out of the 6th kingdom which was the Roman Empire "it died" called the deadly head wound.. Remember that book "Fall Of The Roman Empire".. well "it came back to life" the deadly head wound was healed.. Which leaves us with the final Empire the "Rise Of The Holy Roman Empire" i know why we can't see it.. God is sending that strong delusion this delusion..

II Thessalonian 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


tob
 
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Your definition of the earth is not contextually valid. The verse is simply saying that Temple Judaism had not kept herself pure, but in the pursuit of profit corrupted her values with those of the pagan nations around her. She lost her saltiness.
And then is it the consensus of Preterism that Babylon is not talking of the city of Jerusalem? Next from your statement, what was there about the temple since Israel was given a bill of divorce that could have been considered pure?

Rom 3:9 . . we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

To me all Israel was dysfunctional long before 70 AD.
 
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I gave them the answer in post # 101 at the tail end of the prophecy there was a kingdom to come out of the 6th kingdom which was the Roman Empire "it died" called the deadly head wound.. Remember that book "Fall Of The Roman Empire".. well "it came back to life" the deadly head wound was healed.. Which leaves us with the final Empire the "Rise Of The Holy Roman Empire" i know why we can't see it.. God is sending that strong delusion this delusion..

II Thessalonian 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


tob

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What truth won't they believe? The Gospel, That Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior, the Lord.
 
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And then is it the consensus of Preterism that Babylon is not talking of the city of Jerusalem? Next from your statement, what was there about the temple since Israel was given a bill of divorce that could have been considered pure?

Rom 3:9 . . we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

To me all Israel was dysfunctional long before 70 AD.
No, in Revelation the use of the name Babylon to describe Jerusalem is a way to alert the reader to their similarities.
Temple Judaism was not considered pure.
When do you believe that Israel's dysfunction began, and how did it manifest?
 
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No, in Revelation the use of the name Babylon to describe Jerusalem is a way to alert the reader to their similarities.
Temple Judaism was not considered pure.
When do you believe that Israel's dysfunction began, and how did it manifest?
I would certainly think it to be prior to their bill of divorce, the dispersion, and subsequent return. The second temple remained under Roman power until its destruction in 70 AD. What years led to Israel’s decline? If you’ve got the dates I’d be glad to study them.

I have the date of 444 BC as the time of Nehemiah’s request in Neh 2:1. And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king. I would think the adultery and falling away were after that.

You might even have the actual date the second temple fell such as 2:30 PM on August 3rd of 70 AD. Surely with such importance assigned the writings of Jesus’ return we would know huh? I know of a fact Jesus gave explicit detain direction in that which He wanted known. Act 9:11 And the Lord said unto him (Ananias), Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

I reckon Jesus could have said to Ananias: “Go to somewhere in Europe, and look for a guy by the name of Judas. In the case of 70 AD Jesus may have used Josephus instead, and told Ananias to go to Babylon where you’re to tell him that before sunset you’ll see chariots in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities. Was it exactly 70 AD before sunset?

Thanks.
 
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No kidden ... When was the last time they had self rule?
721 BC (About 2700 years ago): The Assyrian Empire conquers the northern kingdom of Israel in about 721 BC. The Assyrians torture and decapitate many. They force many people (10 of the 12 Tribes of Israel) out of Israel and bring in foreigners.


164-63 BC (About 2100 years ago): During the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, a Jewish rebel army fought against Greek rule and regained a degree of autonomy for a portion of the land of Israel. The revolt is called the Maccabean Revolt and was led by Mattathias the Hasmonean and his five sons, Jonathan, Simon, John, Eleazar and Judas. Judas also was known as Maccabeus, which is said to have meant "hammer" or "hammerer."

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/timeline.htm

They divided themselves into Israel and Judah and fought against each other. Once they did this it wasn't but 200 yrs. and they went into captivity.
A house divided cannot stand?
 
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As a peoples they wined and cried looking to the past wanting the 'time of King David' again... looking back didn't do Lots wife any good...

Thanks Deborah13 :)
 
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About 2700 years ago - in about 721 BC - About 2100 years ago
In other words there is a 99.99% chance - You really don't know then? I could have listened to Reba and probably got that much information. You’re beginning to sound like a weather report, and the next thing I know you’ll be telling me is that John wrote Revelation in 65 AD instead of 90 AD or whatever; what’s a few years huh?
:poke Love you anyway sister.
 
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Eugene please tell me what you think about their self rule?

Seems they were in captivity 588 BC They were under Babylon..then Persia, Egypt, Syria and then Rome
 
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In other words there is a 99.99% chance - You really don't know then? I could have listened to Reba and probably got that much information. You’re beginning to sound like a weather report, and the next thing I know you’ll be telling me is that John wrote Revelation in 65 AD instead of 90 AD or whatever; what’s a few years huh?
:poke Love you anyway sister.
That's true I didn't know. Did I sound like I knew?
It's kind of a bad habit I have, that student mentality. :shrug I'll still sitting in the classroom. If there's a discussion and a question I try to find an answer, share it and everyone else can look at it and do their own research, too. Find the scriptures in the Bible to match the timeline or not. It's a starting point anyway. :study Others who are much more knowledgable usually comment, enriching the discussion and I learn. :)

Love you too, Brother Eugene.
 
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In other words there is a 99.99% chance - You really don't know then? I could have listened to Reba and probably got that much information. You’re beginning to sound like a weather report, and the next thing I know you’ll be telling me is that John wrote Revelation in 65 AD instead of 90 AD or whatever; what’s a few years huh?
:poke Love you anyway sister.
Actually your weather report comment is pretty funny..
My husband always says that he should have been a weather man. They can be wrong 99.9% of the time and still keep their job.
Can I keep my job? :cool
 
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A bit more info 721 bc the Ten became the lost tribes. carried off to Assyria then 130 years later Juda was held captive..

This info matches Deborah13 info...
 
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Eugene please tell me what you think about their self rule?

Seems they were in captivity 588 BC They were under Babylon..then Persia, Egypt, Syria and then Rome
1 Sam 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. In other words Israel wanted to be as the other nations. Num 11:5 Israel was always a rebellious people and wanted the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick: does the stiff neck of rebellion of Deu 31:27 demostrate their attitude? Talk about grace, and they didn't even know the extent of that.

In captivity Israel were under subjection to the rule of others. To not obey there was consequence; i.e., Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego paying the price. They were subject to them God put over them for there is no power but of God, but He was with them in the fire.
 

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