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Why do you believe?

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The reason I believe is because after years of walking with the Lord and running from the Lord and returning to the Lord in my 20s...
I know He loves me and forgives a repentent son.....

Also because my parents and other Christians showed love to me while I was a sinner and held open arms of forgiveness when I returned....

This is not an instant salvation but a lifelong journey we are on....
We all have choices to love the Lord or love the world...
he who endures to the end will be saved.....
Matthew 24:13
 
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skyhigh

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Also because my parents and other Christians showed love to me while I was a sinner
See. And this shows the importance of patience with those of us who go astray. I know my brother was a selfish sod (not dissimilar to myself) and proved a difficult person for my parents. Since my parents have died, he considers them saints. So we can be saints too if we show patience with difficult behaviour. Surely this is something God expects of us?,
 
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If i have faith to remove to remove mountains...i am nothing wo Love
Love is patience
Love never fails
Faith hope and love
The greatest is Love
1 corinthians 13
 
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Yep,for me not going to hell is the meat and potatoes...going to heaven? That's just gravy.
In that case, we got some pretty good gravy!

And we are told to pray that His will be done hear on earth like in heaven. We can see incredible things now. We can hear His voice now. We can get wonderful counsel, now. We can get wisdom from Him now.

It is certainly worth while believing that He is the great I AM, and listening to Him now. Partly because I would not want to wind up in hell, and partly because I do want to wind up in heaven. But being a human being, I personally tend to think about "Now" a lot. For that reason I believe in Him. That is, I like seek Him for what I can get now. The wisdom, teachings, miracles, and all that now. Not going to hell and going to heaven are great reasons to believe, but hearing His voice everyday called "Today" is what really drives me personally.
 
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2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

We only persuade others to turn to God as we know His terror as believers as we read in scripture what happens to His enemies, but unbelievers know not God at all. Fear is the beginning of wisdom as when we know the terror of God we learn to reverence and respect God as we humble our hearts to Him as we also learn how God loves His own. No one can fear that of who they love, but to always be obedient to His will as we walk in love by His Spirit.

There is no response here to my exegesis (meaning from the text) of phobos (fear, dread, terror) as it relates to the fear of the Lord.
 
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Jesus talked more about Hell than anyone, and I know His purpose was to turn people to God! I think a man name Ray Comfort did a great job of explaining that, but not as good a job as Jesus did. Hell, is a very good reason for turning to God! There are other reasons like heaven, love, wisdom, knowledge, and more in this world and the next, but not going to hell is a great reason to turn to God.
I don't perceive that Jesus talked more about judgment than salvation. I do agree Jesus gave a balanced gospel message. "Justice to the nations" as with light comes accountability.
 
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Do you believe in a work based salvation that you have to work for it, or by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves as it is the gift of God?
As I like to point out what work did the man of the cross next to Jesus perform to have his sins forgiven.
Those is no work that can earn our salvation and there is no money that can purchase are salvation. It took the blood of Jesus to purchase us fo God. And "gifts" are freely given. That is what God gives He gives freely but what one receives from man they might have to work hard for.
John 4:10 NIV
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

When one prays to God their hopes should not be based on their righteousness but on Gods mercy and loving kindness.
 

Garion

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You are
Do you believe in a work based salvation that you have to work for it, or by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves as it is the gift of God?
You are just throwing examples out left and right,thank you very much I knew that you are very intelligent.

Here is another example of Scripture gone wrong.

I agree with you, people get in God's good graces on their own merit YET scripture disagrees it says that because Jesus died on the cross everyone is a automatic shoo in for Heaven.

You can do whatever you want as long as you "repent" afterwards you go to Heaven.

So now we have generations of people premeditating wrong anti-social acts like fornicating and greed these things are counterproductive to a functioning society.

That's why we have a DISfunctional society right now.
 

Garion

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Reading the Bible from a sceptical, atheistic pov is bound to be disappointing.
Your "reason" will be disappointed often because there are literary devices used which express a spiritual truth rather than actual fact. of course there are facts as well but it will be hard to know exactly which are which unless you get help from an educated theologian to understand it better.
Yes I'm sceptical,the Bible reads like two separate people with opposite agenda's wrote it.

Also here are some facts.

In the middle ages the Inquisition destroyed thousands of books many historical AND it is a known fact even they admit it that they are hiding knowledge from the world,they are keeping it locked away in the vatican some of it only certain pope's are allowed to access.

I have perfectly good reason to be sceptical.
 

Garion

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None of you Scripture scholars ever address my statement.

How can God throw children in a lake of fire for what their parents taught them yet be such a nice guy that you get into Heaven no matter what you do as long as you repent?

Please enlighten me.
 
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You are

You are just throwing examples out left and right,thank you very much I knew that you are very intelligent.

Here is another example of Scripture gone wrong.

I agree with you, people get in God's good graces on their own merit YET scripture disagrees it says that because Jesus died on the cross everyone is a automatic shoo in for Heaven.

You can do whatever you want as long as you "repent" afterwards you go to Heaven.

So now we have generations of people premeditating wrong anti-social acts like fornicating and greed these things are counterproductive to a functioning society.

That's why we have a DISfunctional society right now.
Two asked something of Jesus while he was in the cross only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him and acknowledged hs wrong doing "we are getting what we deserve". That showed a spirit of humility before God and he called Jesus Lord and believed in the kingdom Jesus spoke of. Even some of those in prison heard, understood and believed in the message.(truth)
Luke 23 NIV:
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.d

43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

I think its quite clear to all that while we have certain freedoms in Christ we are not free to sin and that the wages of sin is death. Those that have the Spirit will not continue to sin as Jesus stated a good tree doesn't bare bad fruit.

With light come accountability.
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
 
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None of you Scripture scholars ever address my statement.

How can God throw children in a lake of fire for what their parents taught them yet be such a nice guy that you get into Heaven no matter what you do as long as you repent?

Please enlighten me.
Most believe we are not free to sin. No one is good except God alone. And Jesus was the only one who was a man who didn't sin. Therefore He is worthy to Judge the living and dead and to forgive the sins of others.

I think children are held blameless not sinless no matter what faith. Thats another debate all together. I dont know if there is a age of accountability but if man though they know evil can judge children different than adults how much more can God who knows no evil be just.
 

for_his_glory

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You are

You are just throwing examples out left and right,thank you very much I knew that you are very intelligent.

Here is another example of Scripture gone wrong.

I agree with you, people get in God's good graces on their own merit YET scripture disagrees it says that because Jesus died on the cross everyone is a automatic shoo in for Heaven.

You can do whatever you want as long as you "repent" afterwards you go to Heaven.

So now we have generations of people premeditating wrong anti-social acts like fornicating and greed these things are counterproductive to a functioning society.

That's why we have a DISfunctional society right now.
This is why you need to get a grasp on scripture as it says nothing about what you have presented here. It was not just men who wrote what is collected into the Bible as book, chapter and verse, but men that Jesus chose to be His Disciples that He sent out to the nations to teach us what Jesus taught them. They have witnessed Christ as they walked with Him, talked to Him and hearing the things He taught. What is written in the Bible are actual letters they wrote to the churches they established in their day.

We do not get into Gods good graces on our own merit as none of us even deserve Gods grace. All of us have fallen in sin making us short of His glory, Romans 3:23. Gods grace means unmerited favor, meaning even though we have sinned against Him and were not obedient to His will for us He still loves His creation. God has made a way through His only begotten Son Jesus,John 3:16, that all can repent of their sins and through the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:5-7 we confess Jesus as in Romans 10:9, 10 and will Have eternal life with God when Jesus returns for His own.

We have a dysfunctional society because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society. If we are truly walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) then we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, Galatians 5:16-26. By rejecting the Gospel message our minds will run rampant as to whatever doctrine of man blows in the wind. Now it's your choice to believe what traditions have taught you, or you can believe what Jesus has taught in all truths.
 

for_his_glory

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There is no response here to my exegesis (meaning from the text) of phobos (fear, dread, terror) as it relates to the fear of the Lord.
Sorry if this is not the answer you wanted, but yet it is my answer to your question. I don't know what more I could add to it.
 

for_his_glory

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As I like to point out what work did the man of the cross next to Jesus perform to have his sins forgiven.
Those is no work that can earn our salvation and there is no money that can purchase are salvation. It took the blood of Jesus to purchase us fo God. And "gifts" are freely given. That is what God gives He gives freely but what one receives from man they might have to work hard for.
John 4:10 NIV
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

When one prays to God their hopes should not be based on their righteousness but on Gods mercy and loving kindness.
I know all this. I was asking skyhigh this question to get his response.
 

for_his_glory

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None of you Scripture scholars ever address my statement.

How can God throw children in a lake of fire for what their parents taught them yet be such a nice guy that you get into Heaven no matter what you do as long as you repent?

Please enlighten me.
It's not God that throws anyone into the lake of fire as it is those who are disobedient to Him who have rejected His knowledge that have given them a place in the lake of fire by their own choice. It's not that they literally choose the lake of fire,but because of their ignorance of an unlearned mind this causes them to be cast into the lake of fire. There is no excuse as the word of God has always been, but yet many refuse to hear, 2 Peter 3:9-18.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
 

Garion

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This is why you need to get a grasp on scripture as it says nothing about what you have presented here. It was not just men who wrote what is collected into the Bible as book, chapter and verse, but men that Jesus chose to be His Disciples that He sent out to the nations to teach us what Jesus taught them. They have witnessed Christ as they walked with Him, talked to Him and hearing the things He taught. What is written in the Bible are actual letters they wrote to the churches they established in their day.

We do not get into Gods good graces on our own merit as none of us even deserve Gods grace. All of us have fallen in sin making us short of His glory, Romans 3:23. Gods grace means unmerited favor, meaning even though we have sinned against Him and were not obedient to His will for us He still loves His creation. God has made a way through His only begotten Son Jesus,John 3:16, that all can repent of their sins and through the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:5-7 we confess Jesus as in Romans 10:9, 10 and will Have eternal life with God when Jesus returns for His own.

We have a dysfunctional society because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society. If we are truly walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) then we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, Galatians 5:16-26. By rejecting the Gospel message our minds will run rampant as to whatever doctrine of man blows in the wind. Now it's your choice to believe what traditions have taught you, or you can believe what Jesus has taught in all truths.
So you also have unwavering faith in man... that's great... I don't.

Like I've stated many records of history have been destroyed in order to hide truth from us.

You want another great example?

Hitler.... ignorant people think that he burned all of them books just cuz he don't like readin , that's not it ,he took education away from those German people so they knew only his teachings.

That's the same thing that they did way back,thats why them dead Sea scrolls were hidden the way they were...so they wouldn't be destroyed.
 

for_his_glory

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Paul wasn't writing that to today's Christians. He wrote it to the Ephesians. To people who were experiencing believing Jews coming from the church in Jerusalem and telling them, yes, you do need to have faith in Christ. But, you also need to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses if you want to be saved. Read acts fifteen. It begins like this.

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. (Acts 15:1-2 KJV)

This is the issue that Paul dealt with in his ministry. If you read Acts chapter 15 you'll see that the elders and Apostles had to address this issue.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.1
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:22-29 KJV)

This was a huge problem for Paul. It was such an issue that the Holy Spirit had him go to Jerusalem to settle it.

Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.1 (Gal. 2:1-2 KJV)

When Paul speaks of not being saved by works, he's speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law. It's even right there in the context of the Ephesians 2 from which you quoted.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.1
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:1 (Eph. 2:8-16 KJV)

Paul explains what he means when he says you are not saved by works. He goes on to explain how Christ abolished the law of commandments contained in ordinances. That's the Mosaic Law.
Butch I know all of this, but you are missing my point I was trying to make of how people today are taught by others who have no understanding that if you are a good person you will go to heaven. This is in error to what has already been said by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-29.
 

Garion

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It's not God that throws anyone into the lake of fire as it is those who are disobedient to Him who have rejected His knowledge that have given them a place in the lake of fire by their own choice. It's not that they literally choose the lake of fire,but because of their ignorance of an unlearned mind this causes them to be cast into the lake of fire. There is no excuse as the word of God has always been, but yet many refuse to hear, 2 Peter 3:9-18.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
A child does not reject His knowledge the child is taught by the parents so that is all that they know yet according to scripture they deserve to be thrown into a lake of fire for eternity.
I don't believe children that were taught to be evil deserve to be thrown into a lake of fire...their parents? Absolutely but I think that a child can be shown the right way.

But you still have not addressed my primary question.

If He is such a nice guy that all repentant go to Heaven no matter what they done,why He throwing children in the fire?
 

Garion

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Butch I know all of this, but you are missing my point I was trying to make of how people today are taught by others who have no understanding that if you are a good person you will go to heaven. This is in error to what has already been said by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-29.
So you are actually saying that being a good person ISN'T what gets you into Heaven?

Then what does? Rituals?
 
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