Growth Why has the Christian Faith abandoned the Passover and the Feast of unleavened bread?

[JLB]

You do realize that the person (Paul) who wrote the epistle to Timothy in fact did not sacrifice the passover or eat the feast of unleavened bread or any of the other feasts for at least the fourteen years that he never returned to Jerusalem. Or if he did observe it, it was not in the manor of the commandment in Moses' Law. I believe he observed the Lord's Supper.

Deu 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a mingled stuff, wool and linen together.
Deu 22:12 Thou shalt make thee twisted cords upon the four corners of thy covering, wherewith thou coverest thyself.
Num 15:38 'Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them throughout their generations fringes in the corners of their garments, and that they put with the fringe of each corner a thread of blue.
Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye go not about after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go astray;
Now what are the scriptures describing? A prayer shawl? Not hardly. This is talking about the tzitzit, the cord (fringe) with the blue thread. Where and when is it to be worn? On the corners of a garment where one will see it all day long to remind them of all of God's law given in Torah or more specifically Moses' Law.
Did one need to only remember the Law when they were praying? That doesn't make any sense at all. Once again we are seeing the traditions of men, not the Law as given to Moses.
I agree with you that our Lord had the tzitzit on His garment and I even believe that is what the woman with the issue of blood touched (the border of His garment) when the Lord healed her. He was born under the law and fulfilled the true meaning of Moses' Law in every way, every day.

If I were going to do an OT seder for my family and those within my gates, it would not look like what the Orthodox and Reformed Jews do. This is what most Messianic people do. I would eat the passover that I see in the OT. Roasted lamb. The Karaite Jews, who do not abide by the Talmud and other oral law, that has been added to God's word, eat the roasted lamb. They do not drink fermented wine. They do not drink 4 cups just one, grape juice with their meal. I don't see 4 cups of wine spoken of in any covenant, at all. Do you?
When we tell other believers that they should be doing something we need to have the witness of God's word ready to give them. So where is the scripture that bears witness to the 4 cups that you said Jesus drank? Either under Moses' Law or the new covenant. If you can produce it you would have a case for someone doing that. Otherwise, it is tradition. I'm not even saying that it is a bad tradition, just that it is tradition and not a commandment.

Yes Deb,

Furthermore, Paul gives us insight into this very thing as we read what he wrote concerning Judaism.

Judaism is the traditions of men, mixed with the law of Moses, the leaven of the Pharisee's that Jesus warned us about.

13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:13-14

Paul said in this religion, he was more zealous for the traditions of his fathers.

Those in this religion murdered Christ Himself, and afterward, His followers.

Judaism is not from God, anymore that Buddhism is.


JLB

 

[YosefHayim]

Ok, Thanks for your answer.

I see where Paul clearly said the law, which was commandments contained in ordinances were done away with.


JLB

From my understanding col 2:14 is talking about the debt and charges written against us.

As for your later post, concerning Paul talking about the tradtion of his fathers, he was not talking about that of God. Jesus said to the pharisees "you follow the traditions of MEN, and not god". These would be the extrabiblical traditions, and talmudic laws.

The pharisees would pretty much be like the illuminati in their day. Nothing but corruption.

 

[JLB]

From my understanding col 2:14 is talking about the debt and charges written against us.

As for your later post, concerning Paul talking about the tradtion of his fathers, he was not talking about that of God. Jesus said to the pharisees "you follow the traditions of MEN, and not god". These would be the extrabiblical traditions, and talmudic laws.

The pharisees would pretty much be like the illuminati in their day. Nothing but corruption.

The very thing that separated the children of Israel [Jews] from the nations [Gentiles] was the laws that God gave to them to obey.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16

Read carefully what was abolished -

... having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

From my understanding col 2:14 is talking about the debt and charges written against us.

As for your later post, concerning Paul talking about the tradtion of his fathers, he was not talking about that of God. Jesus said to the pharisees "you follow the traditions of MEN, and not god". These would be the extrabiblical traditions, and talmudic laws.

The pharisees would pretty much be like the illuminati in their day. Nothing but corruption.

To enter in to the covenant of the law, one MUST be physically circumcised. Correct?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

To enter in to the covenant of the law, one MUST be physically circumcised. Correct?

That is what the Biblios says. And it is to be an everlasting covenant. And we know the 'everlasting' of that covenant gets fulfilled everlasting through circumcision of the heart. It does not have to be fulfilled everlasting physically as it was first instituted and declared by God.

Perhaps if Poly Gripe can understand how other things remain everlasting through their spiritual fulfillment he can understand how the everlasting Sabbath requirement is also fulfilled forever through it's spiritual fulfillment, now fully revealed to God's people.

 

[Deborah13]

That is what the Biblios says. And it is to be an everlasting covenant. And we know the 'everlasting' of that covenant gets fulfilled everlasting through circumcision of the heart. It does not have to be fulfilled everlasting physically as it was first instituted and declared by God.

Perhaps if Poly Gripe can understand how other things remain everlasting through their spiritual fulfillment he can understand how the everlasting Sabbath requirement is also fulfilled forever through it's spiritual fulfillment, now fully revealed to God's people.

IMO
The old covenant of works being only a shadow of the new covenant of grace through faith. No one was ever saved by the shadow but like Abraham, David, and others, by grace through faith.
Works of faith are not ceremonial things but mercy and grace shown to others as the Lord gives us. Forgiveness, feeding and caring for the less fortunate, carrying for the shepherds, Proclaiming the Gospel, praying for the sick and oppressed, etc.
In another thread about the sabbath, someone said that our Lord observed the Sabbath. So if we look at what He and the disciples did and didn't do on the sabbath, He and the disciples were not sitting around physically resting. They were doing the works of faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

IMO
Works of faith are not ceremonial things but mercy and grace shown to others as the Lord gives us. Forgiveness, feeding and caring for the less fortunate, carrying for the shepherds, Proclaiming the Gospel, praying for the sick and oppressed, etc.

I think that genuine, heartfelt worship expressed in a ceremony can be a work of faith, too. Like when the woman anointed Jesus' head and feet, and Mary was at the feet of Jesus instead of doing the dishes (or was it Martha, lol). But don't get me wrong....I detest cold, dead liturgy. And your point is well taken. Isaiah 58 speaks to what you're saying.

So if a Sabbatarian says his Sabbath keeping is an act of faith filled worship, I say, God bless you. I won't take that away from them. They give thanks to God in their observance just as I do in the things that I do (Romans 14:6 NASB).

 

[Deborah13]

So if a Sabbatarian says his Sabbath keeping is an act of faith filled worship, I say, God bless you. I won't take that away from them. They give thanks to God in their observance just as I do in the things that I do (Romans 14:6 NASB).

 

[The Poly Grip Kid]

Poly gripe Ha Ha, you are a funny guy and BTW I do agree with your post.
what you seem to be missing here is that I do these things Such as the feast of unleavened bread (Passover Seder) Wave Sheaf offering etc. because I want to and I know Abba Adonai still honors those and is honored by those who wish to keep His feasts other Holy Days that He so ordained.
I was raised and was heavily Doctrinated Southern Baptist who is still going through the recovery process of that Indoctrination.
Legalism runs rampant in all denominations and I think though we have a lot of stuff wrong But if a person believes in Grace by faith and the spiritual rebirth through the death burial and resurrection of the lord Yeshua then we are all good
I believe the Apostles Creed
I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come to judge the quick and
the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
I Love the Trinity with all my heart mind soul and body and I also Love my neighbors as much as I love my self which is the greatest commandment at least I try real hard to do the second one. TTFN.

 

[gracenote]

I see the Passover as my own way of keeping Holy Week as whole as possible.
I see him as having died on a Wednesday, 14th Nissan.
If I am incorrect in this belief, I'd love some further clarification.
Thanks

 

[The Poly Grip Kid]

I see the Passover as my own way of keeping Holy Week as whole as possible.
I see him as having died on a Wednesday, 14th Nissan.
If I am incorrect in this belief, I'd love some further clarification.
Thanks

Yes that is exactly the reason behind my desire to observe and partake in a Messianic Passover Seder and I also believe that the hebraic month of 14 Nissan was a Wednesday on the Gregorian calendar was in fact the day the Lord Yeshua the Messiah was nailed to the cross The Hebraic days start at sundown and the Gregorian days start at midnight so there is where the confusion lays I also think the Lord Yesha would have been resurrected by Abba Adonai on Saturday at sundown which would have started the first day of the week according to the Hebraic calendar all I can say to those who think Christ died on a friday is Yeshua told us he would be raised on the third day all you have to do is count backwards on your fingers if you are not too good at math

 

[gracenote]

Yes that is exactly the reason behind my desire to observe and partake in a Messianic Passover Seder and I also believe that the hebraic month of 14 Nissan was a Wednesday on the Gregorian calendar was in fact the day the Lord Yeshua the Messiah was nailed to the cross The Hebraic days start at sundown and the Gregorian days start at midnight so there is where the confusion lays I also think the Lord Yesha would have been resurrected by Abba Adonai on Saturday at sundown which would have started the first day of the week according to the Hebraic calendar all I can say to those who think Christ died on a friday is Yeshua told us he would be raised on the third day all you have to do is count backwards on your fingers if you are not too good at math

I love the passage where he cries out, "Eli! Eli! Lama sabachthani!" I always have cried or been stirred during a choir practice over that part. reading it is even more moving.
There was never a finer, a wiser nor more graceful sacrifice made. Ever. What a gift before god for us all!

 

[gracenote]

Not typing well tonight. Got a slight crimp in my style known as finger soreness.
Sorry. God with a capital G!

 

[eddif]

Lamentations 3:22
It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
23 They are new every morning: greatis thy faithfulness.

Because of the faithfulness of Christ all the mercies are never failing.

Every time Jesus is lifted up as our sacrifice, that arose as the first fruit from the dead; have we not celebrated something?
Every time the spirit groans within us have we not celebrated something?
We are the temple. Is not Jesus interceeding for us while seated on the right hand of the Father, placing us in the New Jerusalem?
Are not the Father and the Son the lights in our conscious and un-conscious mind?
Are others not washed into Father, Son, and Holy Spirit every time the gospel is presented and accepted?

Do not daily all the mercies function? Is not the rest of Christ continuous? Is not the meal continuous in us. Revelation 3:20 ?

Do we experience the reality, or practice the shadows?

In Him we live and move and have our being.

eddif