Why I can't believe in rapture theory

Discussion in 'End Times' started by joseph lentz, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. n2thelight

    n2thelight Member

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    Rev 9:1-12 is not Satan, but an angel sent by God.. refer to my post #172
    @ for His glory

    Can't agree

    Luke 10:18 "And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

    Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."
     
  2. JLB

    JLB Member

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    There is no doubt in my mind about the Rapture.

    It happens at the coming of the Lord. :amen

    There are two other significant things that also happen at His coming.


    15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


    1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.
    • And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16
    2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.
    • Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17
    3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.


    • Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

    ...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


    The 3 major things that occur at His coming:

    1. The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
    2. The Rapture.
    3. The destruction of the antichrist.



    JLB
     
  3. Randy

    Randy Member

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    REV 9:11
    And they had ua king over them, which is athe angel of dthe bottomless pit, whose name vin the Hebrew tongue is wAbaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name ||xApollyon. KJV

    YES Satan was given the key to open the abyss and let loose the Angel who once was and at that time will be again for a short period then go to his destruction as the beast and satan and all their armies visible and invisible are defeated by Jesus and hIs armies at the great battle of God almighty. REV 16:15

    Anyway this thread has moved far from a pretrib rapture which we agree isn't found in scripture.
     
  4. banded butterfly

    banded butterfly Member

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    This is true. Atheists are not to ascend with the Lord of the Christians during the rapture.
     
  5. Randy

    Randy Member

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    Haven't you read about a bodily resurrection on the last day? IS that on earth or heaven? Those left alive on that day are caught up to be clothed with immortality as mortal flesh and blood can't inherit the eternal Kingdom God promised to those that Love Him. They need new bodies not of the dust of the earth too don't they? Bodies that don't age and die.
     
  6. banded butterfly

    banded butterfly Member

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    I do believe you're quoting the wrong person here brother. n2thelight is the member that claims the Rapture is a deception.
     
  7. Randy

    Randy Member

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    OK too many offshoots
    Thanks
    RAndy
     
  8. banded butterfly

    banded butterfly Member

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    Understandable. Blessings,
     
  9. Watching Thomas

    Watching Thomas Member

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    Personally, I am glad it proven that there is no pre-tribulation rapture in Scripture. My deep fryer broke down the other day, which is tribulation and I was not raptured before it happened. If true believers did in fact get raptured before tribulation then my still being here now that my deep fryer is broke would have been strong evidence I am in a bad way. Phew, so I am okay.

    Watching Thomas
     
  10. Randy

    Randy Member

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    A tribulation so great no one would survive unless the LORD cut short those days.
     
  11. Watching Thomas

    Watching Thomas Member

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    That's a true word, Randy.

    Watching Thomas
     
  12. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    To you andRandy
    Luke 10:18 speaks of Satan as lightning, not a star. Why would God use Satan to open the bottomless pit to send out destruction on those of disobedience? Satan only tries to attack those who are of God.

    Apollyon is an angel of God in whom God uses as a destroyer in Gods plan of tormenting those of disobedience before we are caught up to be with Christ when He returns as in hopes that the torment will bring those of disobedience to repent and turn back to God. He is an angel of God that He uses throughout the OT and here in vs. 1, 11 to bring about Gods commands when it comes to the destruction of people of disobedience, Exodus 12:23; 2Kings 6:14-18; Proverbs 15:11, 12; Jeremiah 4:7; Daniel 10:13; 1 Corinthians 10:10.
     
  13. Randy

    Randy Member

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    Jesus speaks of Satan as a living being "The father of lies" a murderer from the beginning. How can I answer why God uses Satan to open the bottomless pit as God does all that HE is pleased to do. What I can answers is that it is written so. WHY wouldn't what God gave be truth? As GOD does not lie. NOR does God tempt people to do evil. Satan tempts people to do evil and leads the whole world astray. AND People are tempted by their own evil desires. Apollyon was imprisioned and God is a just God so if Apollyon was imprisoned it was because of sin. THE beast will curse GOD as is written below. THE angels who remained faithful to God would never do so.
    Rev 13 nkjv
    And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
     
  14. Randy

    Randy Member

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    Our religion will be outlawed by the beast's false prophet in those final days and many will refuse to bow down and worship the beast. AS we read part of those who are in the 1st resurrection were beheaded for their faith in Jesus. In those days blessed are those who die in the Lord for so great shall the tribulation be.
    REV 14:13 NIV Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."
     
  15. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    Apollyon was not imprisoned, but kept there for Gods purpose just like the destroyer in Exodus 12:23 that God used to kill the Egyptians. This is how I see it. I could be wrong, but this is what I believe.
     
  16. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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  17. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Great, at least one of you pre-trib folks is trying to at least quote a part of a scripture!

    Amen.

    The Lord does cut short those days by His coming.

    “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand. 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:20-27


    That should end doubt as to His coming, in relation to the tribulation.


    After the tribulation... they will see Him coming.


    Three major things happen at His coming:

    1. The resurrection of the dead in Christ
    2. The rapture of those who are alive and remain
    3. The destruction of the antichrist.

    And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27

    and again

    15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

    and again

    Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


    Now, if one of you pre-trib folks would please explain how you believe the antichrist is destroyed and the rapture of the church both occur before the tribulation?



    JLB
     
  18. Randy

    Randy Member

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    I believe from the sounding of the 5th trump to the last trump( 7th). is the reign of the beast and is the same period of time the bowl judgments take place. Revelation 16:10
     
  19. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    It does set up the timing for those who will live in fear during Gods great wrath being poured out as they will bow down to the beast and take his mark as he promises peace, safety and provisions.

    BTW, I will be gone for a few weeks as I am having hip replacement tomorrow, but will be back when I can as I have enjoyed our conversations here as you have been very pleasant to talk to. God bless
     
  20. Watching Thomas

    Watching Thomas Member

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    That is a big operation to go through, I'll pray for you from time to time.

    Watching Thomas
     

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