Yes sir.
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Why I can't believe in rapture theory
- Thread starter joseph lentz
- Start date
Yes sir.
I hold to the
"Double-Secret Probationary Split-Rapture Theory"
which denies any systematic eschatology whatsoever
knowing only that "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again"
and that He sat down at God's right hand
"from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead"
Thank God I'm so SLOW -- I'm not gonna be judged! Yippee!!
That means we saw what they saw in scripture but that is not my method. I look at the text for my source. It is much easier when they agree though. What if they supported a pretrib rapture? Would you agree or look at all that is written on the end times and disagree? So your method may be as mine.
Randy
I think early Church Fathers supported a PRE-MILLENNIAL return of Christ, I don't know of any early church writings with the possible exception of "Pseudo Ephraim" that delineated a PRE-TRIB rapture.
That's why Grant Jeffries called Tommy Ice and they went GA-GA over his finding Pseudo-Ephraim, it was such a big deal to those pretrib scholars simply because of the scarcity/lack of clear-cut PRE-TRIB statements by early church fathers
Then along came Augustine and even the PRE-MILLENNIAL return of Christ lost out to Augustine's Amillennialism, and it was labelled CHILIASM and scoffed at...
That's why Grant Jeffries called Tommy Ice and they went GA-GA over his finding Pseudo-Ephraim, it was such a big deal to those pretrib scholars simply because of the scarcity/lack of clear-cut PRE-TRIB statements by early church fathers
Then along came Augustine and even the PRE-MILLENNIAL return of Christ lost out to Augustine's Amillennialism, and it was labelled CHILIASM and scoffed at...
HISTORIC PREMIL IS CLOSE TO MY STANCE REV 16:15 IS AT THE END OF THE REIGN OF THE BEAST (LAST DAY) END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION PREMIL POST TRIB IS MY VIEW THE 2ND COMING AND RESURRECTION ARE ON THE LAST DAY OF THE AGE. THE BEAST IS NOT DESTROYED BY HUMAN POWER BUT BY THE WORD OF GOD (JESUS) AND THE ARMIES OF HEAVEN THST FOLLOW HIM. AS JESUS TAUGHT HE WILL SEND OUT HID ANGELS TO GATHER HIS ELECT FFOM THE ENDS O THE HEAVENS ND PULL UP THE WEEDS AND THROW THEM INTO THE FIRE
Historic_premillennialism
PpremillennialismRAPTURE.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_premillennialism
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Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Parentheses are added by myself as they are not part of the scripture, but reveal that Rev 14:11-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints (Rapture) that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own as they continue to witness Christ to those who will finally have ears to hear up to and during Gods seven vial judgments, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.
After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, as we are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.
We then immediately come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16
After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, as we are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.
We then immediately come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16
at the 2nd coming The book of Rev states the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire at that time but satan is bound a 1000 years so he can't deceive the nations anymore then Satan will be released for a short time to gather the nations against the lord and His elect God and maygog. Then God defeats satan and his armies of humans and angels and then satan is thrown into the lake of fire. So there is s clear teaching of 1000 years where the Lord and the saints reign over the nations. Hence those who accept that teaching are currently in a primil position. *(me)That position doesn't require oneto hold to a pretrib rapture(not me) which I also agree isn't taught by the lord and the apostles and is not supported in scripture. Those left alive at the 2nd coming or resurrection of the saints will be caught up into the air and clothed with the new porimsed bodies (immortality)not off the dust of the earth. The dead in Christ rise first as in the resurrection of the saints on this earth not a joy ride. They are not going back to heaven as the lord is not going back to heaven. The condition "until" I make your enemies your footsool will be met on that day and Jesus raise up on the last day those that belong to Him. IF one has the spirit of christ in them they belong to jesus. IF not then they are on the outside looking in. Jesus baptizes with that spirit. NO one enters the kingdom except by JESUS.
jesus=>nv john 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Randy,
A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.
Everything from Chapter 11:14 that starts the third woe with the seventh trumpet sounding and continues through Rev 20:15 comes quickly in Gods timing, even though man tries to put a certain timing to the beginning and end of Gods great wrath. We inherit the kingdoms of God from the day of our Spiritual rebirth, John 3:3-6; Romans 10:9,10 as they have been prepared for us from the foundation of the world, Matthew 25:34. We reign with Christ here on this present earth as Gods grace gives us all power and authority through that of Christ Jesus for it is not our power and authority, but is Christ's that works in us and through us as a faithful servant as He is in us and we in Him.
A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.
Everything from Chapter 11:14 that starts the third woe with the seventh trumpet sounding and continues through Rev 20:15 comes quickly in Gods timing, even though man tries to put a certain timing to the beginning and end of Gods great wrath. We inherit the kingdoms of God from the day of our Spiritual rebirth, John 3:3-6; Romans 10:9,10 as they have been prepared for us from the foundation of the world, Matthew 25:34. We reign with Christ here on this present earth as Gods grace gives us all power and authority through that of Christ Jesus for it is not our power and authority, but is Christ's that works in us and through us as a faithful servant as He is in us and we in Him.
jasonc
Member
I'm not saying I have it figured out
Then God will help all of us get what we need to get.
Cygnus
Member
This is the rapture... 16For the Lord Himself will descendfrom heaven with a loud command, with the voiceof an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, andthe dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
What do you call it?
You know very well that when 98% of people speak of "rapture", they are NOT speaking of the mode of transportation that will be used for us when Jesus returns. They are speaking of a totally secret whisking away of a segment of the population, and anyone left will have no idea where the other people disappeared to.
markathome
Member
Except for millions of paperback left behind books & movies 
Cygnus
Member
Willie T,
You can describe the "rapture" how ever you want to describe it, but the bottom line is that 1st Thes 4:16 tells of a extremely odd event. The term "caught up" is used. For many, many, many people...perhaps not you...the act portrayed is commonly considered as the "rapture"
Do you have a different name?
A 1000 years us what it states and I do take it as truthful testimony from Jesus. So my stance is because of the testimony given in REV which God gave Jesus to give to the churches. Rev 1:1 It was new Revelation at the time given just as the new jerusalem is. The new jerusalem will come down from heaven after the 1000 years not at the resurrection of the saints.
Cygnus
Member
I was once reading where part of the literal 1000 years might be considered when creation is thought of. 6 days means 6K years of human history, so to speak. The 7th day, or 7,000 years from creation is the day of rest and the 1,000 year reign.
Some say we're almost at day 7 with the 6,000 years about to run out. Do I take this as dogma...no.
Some say we're almost at day 7 with the 6,000 years about to run out. Do I take this as dogma...no.
Randy, do you really think it is going to take God 1000 literal years after the return of Christ to put an end to all things on this present earth before ushering down the new heaven and earth! All this happens on the last day and will be done quickly,
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb comes in Rev 19 as at this time we have only prepared ourselves to be His Bride, but not yet caught up to Him. It is not until Jesus returns with His army of warring angels and destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire and, Rev 20, sends and angel to bind Satan for a time while all who are in the grave will at that time hear His voice calling both Saint and sinner to come forth as all will be resurrected at the same time as some will resurrect to eternal life and others to damnation, Rev 20; John 5:28, 29.
Those who are Christ’s will be gathered with those who are still alive at His coming and all will be given their new glorified bodies as they will be with the Lord forever. Satan will be loosed for a time as he deceives the nations as he gathers his army to go up to surround the camp of the saints of God, but are destroyed by fire that God sends down on them. Those who were called to come forth from their graves that are not of Christ will stand in His judgment and as their names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire after Satan is cast there.
The Church, which represents the bride of Christ through the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:3-6 by that of Romans 10:9, 10, are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, either asleep in their graves or alive at Christ coming. That day of redemption comes on the last day, John 6:40, when Christ returns and makes an end to all abominations (end to sin) as all Gods enemies will have then become the footstool of Christ, Psalms 110:1; Luke 20:42,43 as they are destroyed forever and remembered no more and then Christ will reign here on earth with all the saints of God forever.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb comes in Rev 19 as at this time we have only prepared ourselves to be His Bride, but not yet caught up to Him. It is not until Jesus returns with His army of warring angels and destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire and, Rev 20, sends and angel to bind Satan for a time while all who are in the grave will at that time hear His voice calling both Saint and sinner to come forth as all will be resurrected at the same time as some will resurrect to eternal life and others to damnation, Rev 20; John 5:28, 29.
Those who are Christ’s will be gathered with those who are still alive at His coming and all will be given their new glorified bodies as they will be with the Lord forever. Satan will be loosed for a time as he deceives the nations as he gathers his army to go up to surround the camp of the saints of God, but are destroyed by fire that God sends down on them. Those who were called to come forth from their graves that are not of Christ will stand in His judgment and as their names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire after Satan is cast there.
The Church, which represents the bride of Christ through the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:3-6 by that of Romans 10:9, 10, are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, either asleep in their graves or alive at Christ coming. That day of redemption comes on the last day, John 6:40, when Christ returns and makes an end to all abominations (end to sin) as all Gods enemies will have then become the footstool of Christ, Psalms 110:1; Luke 20:42,43 as they are destroyed forever and remembered no more and then Christ will reign here on earth with all the saints of God forever.