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Wifely submission from the husband's POV....

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handy

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Guy's, I've had several conversations with several people lately about wifely submission. It's a topic in the Ladies' Locker Room and we women do try to help our sisters with this concept.

What the purpose of this thread is is to take a look at this subject from the husband's POV.

Now, I realize that in some circles, wifely submission is tantamount to suppression of women, demeaning and downright horrible.

But, those of us who know the bible, know this isn't true. I think that wifely submission is an important part of any Christian marriage, and that there is a negative impact when the wife doesn't submit.

I do think that submission is something that husbands and wives work out together...in my marriage wifely submission means that we look over things, we discuss, we compromise when possible...and when the rubber meets the road, when a decision has to be made and we are not in agreement...we go his way.

Most of the time, we are in agreement, but not always, not for the entire 13 years.

There was a time when I was NOT submitting to Steve's wishes about something, and it became a frustrating time for us. Once I submitted, it was amazing how God began to move in him. I eventually got far more than I ever did by not submitting.

So, I'd like to ask a few questions of you husbands...

What is it like for you when you wife just will not submit about something?

Have you ever been in a situation where you truly felt God leading you to lead your family in one direction just to meet opposition from your wife? If so, how did it impact your marriage and how did you get through it?

Have you ever been at the point of thinking that the marriage just wasn't going to survive because you and your wife were constantly at odds about different things? How did it get resolved, or did it even get resolved?

Please keep in mind what this thread is NOT about...it is NOT about the husband's responsibility to love his wife as Christ loved the church. I know that is of utmost importance...

...but, it seems, probably because of political correctness, that men sort of "hide" behind going to "I must love my wife like Jesus loved the church and give up for her" and not truly deal with what it is like to deal with an un-submissive, un-cooperative wife.

I truly want some insight into what a Christian man, who want's to live by biblical principles and be the spiritual head of his household goes through when the wife isn't on board.
 
As a man I am too busy fullfilling my half of the role

Ephesians 6: <SUP>25</SUP> Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-29327>26</SUP> that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-29328>27</SUP> that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-29329>28</SUP> So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.

Marriage is a like a wheel of giving, I give to her in leadership and sacrifice and she gives to me in following and sacrifice


When we are BOTH fullfilling our role. The wheel rolls and and things are good. If one of us shirks our duty we get a flat tire


When my wife strongly disagrees with me, I have learned to listen. If it's a matter of taste, we might not end up agreeing

But if it is a marriage. life or spiritual issue, We usually reconcile......because as it says above, I am supposed to be willing to give my life for her, and I have grown to trust that she doesn't not object trivially - although that took me 20 years to learn ;o)
 
Marriage is a like a wheel of giving, I give to her in leadership and sacrifice and she gives to me in following and sacrifice


When we are BOTH fullfilling our role. The wheel rolls and and things are good. If one of us shirks our duty we get a flat tire

The purpose for this thread is to discuss when she doesn't give "following and sacrifice" and the tire goes flat.

I know this has happened in my own marriage...and I learned, after I submitted to my husband, the effect it had on him. What effect does it have on you, when she doesn't give?
 
Guy's, I've had several conversations with several people lately about wifely submission. It's a topic in the Ladies' Locker Room and we women do try to help our sisters with this concept.

What the purpose of this thread is is to take a look at this subject from the husband's POV.

Now, I realize that in some circles, wifely submission is tantamount to suppression of women, demeaning and downright horrible.

But, those of us who know the bible, know this isn't true. I think that wifely submission is an important part of any Christian marriage, and that there is a negative impact when the wife doesn't submit.

I do think that submission is something that husbands and wives work out together...in my marriage wifely submission means that we look over things, we discuss, we compromise when possible...and when the rubber meets the road, when a decision has to be made and we are not in agreement...we go his way.

Most of the time, we are in agreement, but not always, not for the entire 13 years.

There was a time when I was NOT submitting to Steve's wishes about something, and it became a frustrating time for us. Once I submitted, it was amazing how God began to move in him. I eventually got far more than I ever did by not submitting.

So, I'd like to ask a few questions of you husbands...

What is it like for you when you wife just will not submit about something?

Have you ever been in a situation where you truly felt God leading you to lead your family in one direction just to meet opposition from your wife? If so, how did it impact your marriage and how did you get through it?

Have you ever been at the point of thinking that the marriage just wasn't going to survive because you and your wife were constantly at odds about different things? How did it get resolved, or did it even get resolved?

Please keep in mind what this thread is NOT about...it is NOT about the husband's responsibility to love his wife as Christ loved the church. I know that is of utmost importance...

...but, it seems, probably because of political correctness, that men sort of "hide" behind going to "I must love my wife like Jesus loved the church and give up for her" and not truly deal with what it is like to deal with an un-submissive, un-cooperative wife.

I truly want some insight into what a Christian man, who want's to live by biblical principles and be the spiritual head of his household goes through when the wife isn't on board.

That can be a very difficult situation for the Christian man to deal with. My wife has become very good at it, but she still sometimes struggles with the fealings of powerlessness in some of these situations. For me i struggle because i tend to think i already know it all, and then don't give my wifes words the influence they merit.
She is usually right but i still challenge her from time to time just to keep here honest. My wife is a younger christian than myself and i have to keep in mind of that, i also try to give her as much room as possable to make decisions and the freedom to make mistakes when the damage would be tolerable. My wife is also stronger than me in some areas like finances, and mercy, so i grant here free reign in those area,s. There have been times when my wife was not following the lord, and they were the most difficult of all. I chose to follow the lord any way and lead by example, thankfully she chose to stay with me.
For the man its an issue of respect, choosing to do things your own way will leave him not only feeling powerless but disrespected as well. The world is already somewhat emasculating men when it can, disobediance (for lack of a better word) is very hard on a mans self esteem and some what a challenge to his manhood. i find it amazing how so many women seem to think it is there job to polish there man into a fine image, and then dont understand where the masculinaty went.
 
I asked my husband what he thinks of me when I refuse to submit. He said, "When was that? I've never asked of you anything that requires submission!"

He is right.

Sorry. Can't help ya!
 
Thanks Alabaster, but I'm really looking for feedback from the guys here.

And, I'm wondering if there is just too much pressure now from women and society in general against wifely submission that it's almost tantamount to admitting being a Bluebeard to discuss how a guy feels if his wife doesn't submit to him.
 
Thanks Alabaster, but I'm really looking for feedback from the guys here.

And, I'm wondering if there is just too much pressure now from women and society in general against wifely submission that it's almost tantamount to admitting being a Bluebeard to discuss how a guy feels if his wife doesn't submit to him.

lol. i was staying away from this thread as i feel bitter at times.my wife in some areas is most submissive, others especially in spiritual matters isnt. if i want peace of mind i best not give to my church.now then we can all talk about well your a man and you should rule the house etc,etc

really? i can make an adult do my will, not even God does that. we clash on spiritual matters.she is into new age and loves that stuff and will point all the so called wisdom of that crap to me.and does sow most unaware that i did that and was used by the devil and sucked dry.
 
What effect does it have on you, when she doesn't give?
When this happens I feel disrespected, unneeded, and not trusted. Over the years I've become more passive and just allow her to wear the pants more often, so-to-speak. For one thing, it takes some of the pressure off of me for the responsibility that goes along with those decisions.

One side note. It seems that as time goes on, she has either become more passive and submissive or she has learned to trust me more as it seems that she seems to be more inclined to hear me today than she did years ago.

Maybe this is part of it too. We were both married before and living alone when we met and so we came into our marriage from very strong independent lifestyles and in the early years of our marriage we remained very independent and I think we were both reluctant to give that up. Now I think we are both learning to depend on each other more.
 
We were both married before and living alone when we met and so we came into our marriage from very strong independent lifestyles and in the early years of our marriage we remained very independent and I think we were both reluctant to give that up. Now I think we are both learning to depend on each other more.

I understand this...Steve and I didn't marry until we were well into our 30's. Neither one of us had married before, but we were both very independent adults. It took a lot of adjusting of thought and, like you say, learning to depend upon each other to work into what I would consider a more godly marriage, as opposed to the modern idea of a 50/50 partnership.

now then we can all talk about well your a man and you should rule the house etc,etc

really? i can make an adult do my will, not even God does that.

I don't think a husband can make a wife do his will....which is why the Bible speaks of submission, not obedience when it comes to marriage. The two are not interchangeable terms.

I truly am glad for the feedback guys...I wish more of the guys around here would chime in.

I am seeing the idea of "disrespected" come up in this...and I know from my own marriage that Steve felt disrespected as well. That's hard on anyone...I know I don't like it when I feel disrespected by others, and when it comes to my husband or kids, it's really hard.
 
I am surprised you guys aren't posting in this thread. The topic of submission is a great one for today. We live in a world so upside-down from the scriptures. Men and women no longer reverence the Word believing it is not relevant to today. The world blurs the lines between men & women God does not in our daily living.

I challenge that idea and i challenge you guys to explain why you dont want to step up into the batters box.

Anyone who reads scripture can see the "picture' of Christian living in how God designed marriage. Our roles are clear one not better then the other just different.

I would love to have a Christian husband be the head of our home. 47 years in an unequally yoked marriage has not been a breeze.... And that poor guy is married to me!

What do you GUYS think about submission? Does it mean YOU are the BOSS?
Does it mean you have to do everything?
Lets us know what your thinking. Scripture wise and home wise?
 
dora, i have had a well meaning christian here tell me that. i had to remind that person it doesnt work that way.
 
Jason It doesn't work God's way?

no, that i should as leader of the house, rather just do something that i know to be right etc and my wife will follow if i pray hard enough.

i do believe that the lord changes things but sometimes we cant do it and God must do it all for us. its kinda like this if you are stuck in a rut while driving sometimes you can steer your way out of it. other times you have to stop and get pulled out of the rut.
 
I think that if we husbands gave ourselves for our wives as Christ gave himself for the church wives would have no problem being submissive to their husbands. To be submissive means to be humble and that is something Jesus preached over and over again. When the Bible says we are to be the head of the household, shouldn't we be following Jesus' example as the head of the church and lead with humility and an attitude of service? What was Jesus' example? He washed the feet of his disciples. He submitted to them and likewise I think husbands need to submit to their wives. What goes around comes around?
 
I think that if we husbands gave ourselves for our wives as Christ gave himself for the church wives would have no problem being submissive to their husbands. To be submissive means to be humble and that is something Jesus preached over and over again. When the Bible says we are to be the head of the household, shouldn't we be following Jesus' example as the head of the church and lead with humility and an attitude of service? What was Jesus' example? He washed the feet of his disciples. He submitted to them and likewise I think husbands need to submit to their wives. What goes around comes around?

it makes it easier, but that is like saying to me(not that i shouldnt do that).if we live the calling of christ our family member or lost person we want to reach will be saved. yes, we lay conviction on them but that doesnt mean they will repent.
 
I think that if we husbands gave ourselves for our wives as Christ gave himself for the church wives would have no problem being submissive to their husbands. To be submissive means to be humble and that is something Jesus preached over and over again. When the Bible says we are to be the head of the household, shouldn't we be following Jesus' example as the head of the church and lead with humility and an attitude of service? What was Jesus' example? He washed the feet of his disciples. He submitted to them and likewise I think husbands need to submit to their wives. What goes around comes around?

I think in a perfect marriage, it would work this way every time. And, I know that in many Christian marriages, when both husband and wife are committed first to God and then to their spouse, it works this way most of the time as well. I know this because there are many examples of this kind of marriage in my family and I've observed it.

But, I also know many solid Christian men who desire to take on the godly role of head of the household by following Christ's example of love and service to his wife...and get walked all over. (By the same token, I know of many Christian women who submit to their husbands, only to have him act like a first class jerk, but that's a different thread.)

WIP, I think I disagree with this: "He submitted to them and likewise I think husbands need to submit to their wives." (I say think because I'm more than a little tired tonight and maybe my thought processes aren't firing on all cylinders.)

I don't think that Christ submitted to the discples, He served them and took care of their need and pleasure (having one's hot, dusty feet washed is a pleasurable thing, after all). But, this is difference than submission. I don't see where Christ submits to the Church...an example of the Church saying "We will go this way" and Christ, out of love says..."Not what I want but in order to keep peace, OK." No, I don't see this at all...and perhaps I'm totally misunderstanding your meaning.

Example of Biblical submission: The General says, "We will go here and do this", and the Lt. Colonel says, "Sir, that hill will be hard to take with many casualties...it makes more sense to ford the stream", then the General says, "I have my orders from above, we need to take the hill", then the Lt. Colonel says: "Yes Sir." No more arguing, no "That's stupid and I refuse to do it." on the part of the Lt. Colonel.

I used a military example because that is exactly where we get the term "submission" from. Again, it's not a matter of obedience, nor does it say that the General is a better person, or a more important person than the Lt. Colonel. Just that he outranks him and that the 5 Star General gives orders to the General and the General passes them down. This is the biblical foundation for "submission" for wives...that God leads the family through her husband, and she, although just as important and vital to the family, is to follow his lead.

Jason, forgive me, again, I'm more than a little tired tonight, but I am gathering from you that you think I might be saying that if a man takes the role of spiritual head of the household seriously, and even fulfills that role in a loving and humble way...then the wife will automatically submit. If this is what you think I'm getting at...no, I don't think that at all. I wish it were, but not in this imperfect world. I think this is why we are cautioned to not be unequally yoked in the first place...but again, in this imperfect world, it happens.

Which is in part why I started this thread...I am wanting to get an idea from the men here what submission means to them...and it seems like it's a far more difficult topic to get responses from than I thought.

Do any of you men feel that it is wrong of you to expect your wife to submit to you, when the two of you cannot come to agreement about some thing the Lord has laid upon your heart to do?

Do you think that the Biblical concept of submission is just too outdated for today's Church body?

I know at least one person has said this...do others agree that sometimes it is just much easier and leads to more temporary peace in the house just to allow the wife to lead?
 
Jason, forgive me, again, I'm more than a little tired tonight, but I am gathering from you that you think I might be saying that if a man takes the role of spiritual head of the household seriously, and even fulfills that role in a loving and humble way...then the wife will automatically submit. If this is what you think I'm getting at...no, I don't think that at all. I wish it were, but not in this imperfect world. I think this is why we are cautioned to not be unequally yoked in the first place...but again, in this imperfect world, it happens.

not you, wip, you as a women who didnt submit knows that not to be the case

lol you used a military leadership concept. yeah i cant do that and command my wife to obey.yes that is the type of submission but if i might digress on leadership skills. its much more effective to ask a soldier to do something then to order them. its a style of leadership that is the most effective.i cant think of the army word for that.
 
you used a military leadership concept. yeah i cant do that and command my wife to obey.yes that is the type of submission but if i might digress on leadership skills. its much more effective to ask a soldier to do something then to order them.

Again, tired...(yeah, I'm milking the tired thing)...but what I was trying to point in my military example was the fact that the General gets his directives from above and the Lt. Colonel (do Generals even talk to Lt. Cols.?) then follows suit...neither the General nor the Lt. Colonel being the top decider in anything....just that the General "out ranks" the Lt. Colonel.
 
Again, tired...(yeah, I'm milking the tired thing)...but what I was trying to point in my military example was the fact that the General gets his directives from above and the Lt. Colonel (do Generals even talk to Lt. Cols.?) then follows suit...neither the General nor the Lt. Colonel being the top decider in anything....just that the General "out ranks" the Lt. Colonel.

i see your point, but it kinda not the best way to convey that to me. the problem is that in the military i can punish my soldiers for insuboordination.i can take pay , add extra duties or arrest them if need be.(criminal act or some things as failure make movement). but its not me that does that punishment but the officers,save minor non judicial punishment.

now then back to the op(i do love talking about the military,lol) i simply cant do that to my wife, if she doesnt listen then i can either talk to her or remind her the commands of god but ultamitely my wife must want to obey and want to love me in this manner and aslo she will answer to God.

now then does ssg cranman have follow orders from his chain of command(again i degress) yes, i do. even the ones i dont like(plenty of those)i do it because i know that its not worth to fight it but however, even in the guard i can recommend a better way of doing things and get like that colonel shot down but if my command is worth a darn they will listen to the nco's on the ground and take their advice. an officer directs and an nco makes that directive happen.

now then you civilians talk about this in marriage seminars its called delegation. if i delagate my authority to someone and they fail to do it and the plattoon sgt will come to me not the person who didnt do the task. sound familiar it should. i know of godly men who delegate certain areas to the spouse to do and they often do that better then the husband.

remember that even though submit is a military word, handy, the marriage isnt a nco-suboordinate relationship per se.
 
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