Will All Christian's Be Ready?

[rollinTHUNDER]

The Bible says that history repeats and that God will call the past to account (Eccl. 1:9, 3:15). Pardon my French, but this seems like deja vu in a way, because the Jews were not ready when Christ came in the first century. They studied the scriptures diligently. They even knew that Messiah’s coming was very near because of Daniel’s prophecy. Yet when He actually came, only a few were able to recognize and receive Him. And now we know that He’s coming again. But this time, He has warned that His followers need to keep watch and be ready. A light should be coming on right about now. Most believer’s today believe or assume they are ready because they have received Christ as their Savior, but we shouldn’t assume every believer is a faithful servant. Sure, they may all be saved, having received Christ, but contrary to popular belief, we’re not going to be rewarded for what Christ did on the cross. Believing is only the first step in our salvation. The shocking truth is that we are going to be judged and rewarded for the works we’ve done since/after we received Him.
.
2 Corinthians 5:10 – "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."
.
Revelation 22:12 – "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
.
Much confusion has been caused by excluding Matthew 25, which is the rest of Christ’s answer to His disciple’s question about the sign of His coming and the end of the age. As a result, most assume His physical second coming is in Matthew 24, which is actually the rapture. While the second coming is found in the end of chapter 25, beginning in verse 31, where the King returns to judge the nations. However, He cannot judge the nations until He first judges the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17-18), and this is what we have been missing in the parables that scholar’s have neglected all these years. In chapter 24, He warned His followers to keep watch and be ready, as He appears in the clouds, sending His angels to gather His elect (rapture), which is when He begins to render His judgment and reward His servants, followed later by His return and judgment of the nations (Rev. 11:18). Many teach that the entire Church will be raptured, but I’ve discovered there are actually three different rewards for believers. I like to think of them as (cold, lukewarm and hot).
.
Matthew 13:33 – "Another parable He spoke to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.”
.
Many believer’s will be caught off guard when He suddenly appears, much like those in the first century, who were waiting for a conquering King, as they missed the Lamb that came to die for the sins of the world. The love of many will grow cold and they will fall away before He even appears. Then two groups will remain when He appears, those who are ready and the lukewarm. However, He also warned that He would spit the lukewarm out of His mouth as well (Rev. 3:15-16). Few Christian’s realize that punishment is involved at the judgment seat of Christ (Luke 12:46-48). The works of some will be all burned up. They will still be saved, yet only as one escaping through the flames (1 Cor. 3:15). It’s time to find out what it really means to be ready, and what will happen to believer’s who aren’t. It’s time to unlock the hidden clues He left for us in His parables. Get ready for an eye-opening view of the rapture in: WHO WILL BE READY WHEN THE TRUMPET SOUNDS?

 

[Eugene]

The shocking truth is that we are going to be judged and rewarded for the works we’ve done since/after we received Him.
.
2 Corinthians 5:10 – "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."
.
Revelation 22:12 – "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
.

Dear Brother rollinTHUNDER, I sure hope I'm correct in reading and understanding this like I think you're saying it; it will be a first around here for me.
In Revelation Chapters Two & Three we read of Jesus' judgment of the Church. Five portions in certain locations (Rev 2:4, Rev 2:14,Rev 2:20 & Rev 3:2, Rev 3:15) are being judged according to their walk in Christ are told to repent. This is as Jesus walks among the candlesticks (Rev 1:20) during this present time.
There are two parts of the ONE Church; the total body of Christ that are commended, and they are Smyrna (Rev 2:10) and Philadelphia (Rev 3:10)
This is the Judgment Seat of Christ exhibited, written about,and ongoing. In Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Judgment has been laid, and all that is left is the reward for the work we allowed God to do in our lives. (Php 2:13).

 

[for_his_glory]

The Bible says that history repeats and that God will call the past to account (Eccl. 1:9, 3:15). Pardon my French, but this seems like deja vu in a way, because the Jews were not ready when Christ came in the first century. They studied the scriptures diligently. They even knew that Messiah’s coming was very near because of Daniel’s prophecy. Yet when He actually came, only a few were able to recognize and receive Him. And now we know that He’s coming again. But this time, He has warned that His followers need to keep watch and be ready. A light should be coming on right about now. Most believer’s today believe or assume they are ready because they have received Christ as their Savior, but we shouldn’t assume every believer is a faithful servant. Sure, they may all be saved, having received Christ, but contrary to popular belief, we’re not going to be rewarded for what Christ did on the cross. Believing is only the first step in our salvation. The shocking truth is that we are going to be judged and rewarded for the works we’ve done since/after we received Him.
.
2 Corinthians 5:10 – "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."
.
Revelation 22:12 – "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
.
Much confusion has been caused by excluding Matthew 25, which is the rest of Christ’s answer to His disciple’s question about the sign of His coming and the end of the age. As a result, most assume His physical second coming is in Matthew 24, which is actually the rapture. While the second coming is found in the end of chapter 25, beginning in verse 31, where the King returns to judge the nations. However, He cannot judge the nations until He first judges the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17-18), and this is what we have been missing in the parables that scholar’s have neglected all these years. In chapter 24, He warned His followers to keep watch and be ready, as He appears in the clouds, sending His angels to gather His elect (rapture), which is when He begins to render His judgment and reward His servants, followed later by His return and judgment of the nations (Rev. 11:18). Many teach that the entire Church will be raptured, but I’ve discovered there are actually three different rewards for believers. I like to think of them as (cold, lukewarm and hot).
.
Matthew 13:33 – "Another parable He spoke to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.”
.
Many believer’s will be caught off guard when He suddenly appears, much like those in the first century, who were waiting for a conquering King, as they missed the Lamb that came to die for the sins of the world. The love of many will grow cold and they will fall away before He even appears. Then two groups will remain when He appears, those who are ready and the lukewarm. However, He also warned that He would spit the lukewarm out of His mouth as well (Rev. 3:15-16). Few Christian’s realize that punishment is involved at the judgment seat of Christ (Luke 12:46-48). The works of some will be all burned up. They will still be saved, yet only as one escaping through the flames (1 Cor. 3:15). It’s time to find out what it really means to be ready, and what will happen to believer’s who aren’t. It’s time to unlock the hidden clues He left for us in His parables. Get ready for an eye-opening view of the rapture in: WHO WILL BE READY WHEN THE TRUMPET SOUNDS?

Everyone was created by God, but not all are found faithful to Him as many refused to Hear the word of God and turned away from Him and will continue to do so until the coming of the Lord. We know Jesus comes with rewards as the rewards are different for each one like that of the parable of Jesus gave in Matthew 25:14-30 and the judgment of the Gentiles in Matthew 25:31-46. There were faithful servants that used their talents wisely as they were considered great before the Lord, meaning they had ears to hear the word of God and were not just hearers but doers of the word as being faithful as in sharing Gods word with others either in deed or teaching which both increases the kingdom of God. Then there were the small wicked and slothful who did not serve God as they buried that which was given them, meaning they closed their ears and rejected the word of God given them as their reward will be that of being cast into the lake of fire.

John 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

2Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father the Lord Jesus Christ: 2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Dear Brother rollinTHUNDER, I sure hope I'm correct in reading and understanding this like I think you're saying it; it will be a first around here for me.
In Revelation Chapters Two & Three we read of Jesus' judgment of the Church. Five portions in certain locations (Rev 2:4, Rev 2:14,Rev 2:20 & Rev 3:2, Rev 3:15) are being judged according to their walk in Christ are told to repent. This is as Jesus walks among the candlesticks (Rev 1:20) during this present time.
There are two parts of the ONE Church; the total body of Christ that are commended, and they are Smyrna (Rev 2:10) and Philadelphia (Rev 3:10)
This is the Judgment Seat of Christ exhibited, written about,and ongoing. In Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Judgment has been laid, and all that is left is the reward for the work we allowed God to do in our lives. (Php 2:13).

Hi Eugene,
I haven't exactly broken down the message to the 7 churches that way, but it looks like a very good observation on your part. Even the churches that He was warning, He gave promises to the overcomers in them, while the others were told that he will come on them unexpectedly and the outcome would not be good for them if they did not repent. I believe those who overcome will receive all of the promises given to each of the churches and more. They have kept His Word and done His Father's will. They are the doers of His Word and obedient (faithful servants) and they will be ready, but the others have soiled their garments.

Many believe that the entire church will be raptured and then judged in the clouds/air. But I think many of those who believe that are headed for a very rude awakening. The way I see it, He is constantly judging us and observing how we respond to trials and tribulations that He sends, in order that we may mature. He is the Supreme Judge of the universe. His ways are much higher than ours. We often think of judges in this world, where you have an appointed time to appear at court. You have to travel to the judge's courtroom and make a physical appearance before him. But it's not going to be that way when we are judged by the REAL Supreme Court. Everything we do and have done is recorded in His books, and nothing we say or do in this world is hidden from Him. The only thing we can do to change His judgment is to repent before He appears in the clouds. When He steps off of His throne in heaven and begins His descent in the clouds, His judgment will already be set, and He said that He is bringing our reward with Him when He comes (Rev. 22:12).

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Everyone was created by God, but not all are found faithful to Him as many refused to Hear the word of God and turned away from Him and will continue to do so until the coming of the Lord. We know Jesus comes with rewards as the rewards are different for each one like that of the parable of Jesus gave in Matthew 25:14-30 and the judgment of the Gentiles in Matthew 25:31-46. There were faithful servants that used their talents wisely as they were considered great before the Lord, meaning they had ears to hear the word of God and were not just hearers but doers of the word as being faithful as in sharing Gods word with others either in deed or teaching which both increases the kingdom of God. Then there were the small wicked and slothful who did not serve God as they buried that which was given them, meaning they closed their ears and rejected the word of God given them as their reward will be that of being cast into the lake of fire.

Hi fhg,
It appears you are saying that the faithful servants will get rewarded, which I agree with, but the unfaithful or lazy servants will be thrown into the lake of fire. There will be punishments for those believers who are not ready, sure, but I can't see throwing them into the lake of fire with the goats/unbelievers (see 1 Cor. 3:15 & Luke 12:46-48). If that's the case, then there will be no one left for the saints that return with Christ to rule and reign over, but then again, I understand that you don't take the 1000 years literally, which I believe causes problems. The Bible says that Satan will be released again after the 1000 years and deceive the nations and gather them to battle. Who are these nations if everyone else was cast into the lake of fire? I think you run into trouble when you must say this or that is not literal. It merely shows that you have holes in your theory or missing puzzle pieces. I mean no offense by that, so please don't be offended. I think the problem is that there are actually three characters instead of just two. In my view there are three rewards, yet two of them involve punishment, but all are saved, so none will be cast into the lake of fire with the unbelievers (goats).

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi fhg,
It appears you are saying that the faithful servants will get rewarded, which I agree with, but the unfaithful or lazy servants will be thrown into the lake of fire. There will be punishments for those believers who are not ready, sure, but I can't see throwing them into the lake of fire with the goats/unbelievers (see 1 Cor. 3:15 & Luke 12:46-48). If that's the case, then there will be no one left for the saints that return with Christ to rule and reign over, but then again, I understand that you don't take the 1000 years literally, which I believe causes problems. The Bible says that Satan will be released again after the 1000 years and deceive the nations and gather them to battle. Who are these nations if everyone else was cast into the lake of fire? I think you run into trouble when you must say this or that is not literal. It merely shows that you have holes in your theory or missing puzzle pieces. I mean no offense by that, so please don't be offended. I think the problem is that there are actually three characters instead of just two. In my view there are three rewards, yet two of them involve punishment, but all are saved, so none will be cast into the lake of fire with the unbelievers (goats).

I take no offense as we are having a good discussion and I appreciate that even if we are at difference in what we believe.

The unfaithful and slothful are those who have no faith or believe in Christ and they are those who will stand in Gods great white throne judgement and as their names are not found in the book of like will be cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:11-15.

I gave the two parables in Matthew 25:14-30 and 25:31-46 to show how some only give lip service to the Lord as many believe in His name only and do good things, but only for self gratification and have no personal relationship with Christ as they have never been Spiritually born again which is the only way to see the kingdom of God, John 3:3-6. These are the ones who will be cast out into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth as they are separated from God forever.

Where we differ is that I read Revelations in a chronological order of events in Gods timing and not our own that when Christ returns on the last day, John 6:40, everything from Rev 19-20 and 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 is going to be done very quickly since it is the last final day and not a literal 1000 year span as many believe it to be.

The word thousand is not literal in scripture, but symbolic for a large number or a certain period of time as in these scriptures:

Psalms 50:10, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."
Ecclesiastes 7:28, "...one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found."
Daniel 5:1, "Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand."
Daniel 7:10, "...thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him."
Deuteronomy 7:9, "…which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that…keep his commandments to a thousand generations;"
1 Chronicles 16:15, "Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;"
Psalms 90:4, "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past,"
Psalms 105:8, "He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations."
Ecclesiastes 6:6, "Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?"
2 Peter 3:8, "...one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

 

[Eugene]

Brother rollinTHUNDER, I appreciate you reply. I'll add something here that may distinguish believer from believer as certain ones are told to repent in Revelation Chapters Two and Three in what I refer to as The Judgment Seat of Christ. I compare it to the Breastplate of Judgment worn by Aaron where Israel's marching orders were changed I wrote of at the following URL link. Sorry, the link didn't work for some reason so I just paste it below.

Ephod and the Breastplate of Judgment by Eugene.
The order of tribes on the Ephod is in order of birth, and that of the Breastplate of Judgment is not; it ends up in the marching order. In other words Judah is now first after judgment on Aaron's heart.
(Exodus 28:8-10) To start with the 12 tribes worn on the Ephods were placed in order of birth.
Rueben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Asher
Issachar
Zebulon
Joseph
Benjamin

(Exodus 28:29) On the Breastplate of Judgment they are changed in order which are 10 full tribes and two half tribes; Joseph died and the tribe of Levi were priests and led the march by 2000 cubits and were not numbered with tribes of Israel.
Judah
Issachar
Zebulun
Rueben
Simeon
Gad
Ephrain
Manasseh
Benjamin
Dan
Asher
Naphtali

Below are some facts to help in any study you might want to do on this subject.
Joseph had died and that left the half tribe of Mannasseh, Joseph's eldest, and the half tribe of Ephraim (Gen. 46:40)
Also the tribe of Levi was not numbered with the tribes of Israel. (Joshua 3:3-4) When the Levites carried the "Ark of the Covenant," they led the march by 2000 cubits or around 3000 ft.

(Numbers Chap. 2) When Israel were camped the tribes of:
Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun were on the east
Rueben, Simeon, and Gad were on the south
Ephrain, Mannasseh, and Benjamin were on the west
Dan, Asher, and Naptali were on the north
Levi was camped in the middle

(Numbers 10:14-27) The camping order above was also their marching order.

A question was asked - From this you deduce/infer the possibility that it reflects a change in reward after the judgment fires of G-d have burnt away our dross on our arrival into His Presence. Could we say that after being judged by God we come out with different rewards?

My Response - I can't say that Joseph's death was judgment, but the marching order was. When you put your leaders bearing their standards, there is honor in that. In the following verses we see a hint at that.

Exodus 28:29: "And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually."
Exodus 28:30: "And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually."

Judgment doesn't always have to do with annihilation or chastisement; it can be as simple as obtaining God's best. God judges the churches in much the same manner in Revelation Chapters 2 and 3. Jesus finds fault with some and commends others. On the Breastplate of Judgment we see the ones judged to obtain that more prominent place.

I believe our reward in heaven will be according to our present walk with the Lord also.
In Jesus' name.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

I take no offense as we are having a good discussion and I appreciate that even if we are at difference in what we believe.

The unfaithful and slothful are those who have no faith or believe in Christ and they are those who will stand in Gods great white throne judgement and as their names are not found in the book of like will be cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:11-15.

I gave the two parables in Matthew 25:14-30 and 25:31-46 to show how some only give lip service to the Lord as many believe in His name only and do good things, but only for self gratification and have no personal relationship with Christ as they have never been Spiritually born again which is the only way to see the kingdom of God, John 3:3-6. These are the ones who will be cast out into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth as they are separated from God forever.

Okay, great! I see we have lots of differences, but that's alright. At least we can agree on the faithful servants, and that's the most critical area for believers.

I have a much different interpretation of His parables. In fact, a whole new rapture theory was created when I wrote my book. Of course, I never intended to create a new theory. Frankly, I didn't even realize it until after I read the first proof copy. As it turns out, I was breaking down Christ's answer to His disciples question (Matt. 24:3), which covers the rest of chapter 24 and all of chap. 25 as well. As I was breaking it down, writing my interpretation, one thing just led to another, and wa-lah, there it was. Most everyone else thinks the foolish virgins are doomed, because they think they were not really saved to begin with, but not so fast. There's another way to view it, and that's what I did. Anyway, not to keep rambling on, but I will also post my new theory soon, after I post the one about the two resurrections I promised the other day.

 

[ezra]

Okay, great! I see we have lots of differences, but that's alright. At least we can agree on the faithful servants, and that's the most critical area for believers.

I have a much different interpretation of His parables. In fact, a whole new rapture theory was created when I wrote my book. Of course, I never intended to create a new theory. Frankly, I didn't even realize it until after I read the first proof copy. As it turns out, I was breaking down Christ's answer to His disciples question (Matt. 24:3), which covers the rest of chapter 24 and all of chap. 25 as well. As I was breaking it down, writing my interpretation, one thing just led to another, and wa-lah, there it was. Most everyone else thinks the foolish virgins are doomed, because they think they were not really saved to begin with, but not so fast. There's another way to view it, and that's what I did. Anyway, not to keep rambling on, but I will also post my new theory soon, after I post the one about the two resurrections I promised the other day.

if a person is truly saved/born again/christian they will be ready .now granted as true Christians when that time comes we will be gone. but how many feel %100 ready for that day and give a account .. i would hope when that time comes i will have gotten my fleshly ways took care of. . this is not a theology debate .but trying to make a point

 

[smaller]

Brother rollinTHUNDER, I appreciate you reply. I'll add something here that may distinguish believer from believer as certain ones are told to repent in Revelation Chapters Two and Three in what I refer to as The Judgment Seat of Christ. I compare it to the Breastplate of Judgment worn by Aaron where Israel's marching orders were changed I wrote of at the following URL link. Sorry, the link didn't work for some reason so I just paste it below.

Ephod and the Breastplate of Judgment by Eugene.
The order of tribes on the Ephod is in order of birth, and that of the Breastplate of Judgment is not; it ends up in the marching order. In other words Judah is now first after judgment on Aaron's heart.
(Exodus 28:8-10) To start with the 12 tribes worn on the Ephods were placed in order of birth.
Rueben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Asher
Issachar
Zebulon
Joseph
Benjamin

(Exodus 28:29) On the Breastplate of Judgment they are changed in order which are 10 full tribes and two half tribes; Joseph died and the tribe of Levi were priests and led the march by 2000 cubits and were not numbered with tribes of Israel.
Judah
Issachar
Zebulun
Rueben
Simeon
Gad
Ephrain
Manasseh
Benjamin
Dan
Asher
Naphtali

Below are some facts to help in any study you might want to do on this subject.
Joseph had died and that left the half tribe of Mannasseh, Joseph's eldest, and the half tribe of Ephraim (Gen. 46:40)
Also the tribe of Levi was not numbered with the tribes of Israel. (Joshua 3:3-4) When the Levites carried the "Ark of the Covenant," they led the march by 2000 cubits or around 3000 ft.

(Numbers Chap. 2) When Israel were camped the tribes of:
Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun were on the east
Rueben, Simeon, and Gad were on the south
Ephrain, Mannasseh, and Benjamin were on the west
Dan, Asher, and Naptali were on the north
Levi was camped in the middle

(Numbers 10:14-27) The camping order above was also their marching order.

A question was asked - From this you deduce/infer the possibility that it reflects a change in reward after the judgment fires of G-d have burnt away our dross on our arrival into His Presence. Could we say that after being judged by God we come out with different rewards?

My Response - I can't say that Joseph's death was judgment, but the marching order was. When you put your leaders bearing their standards, there is honor in that. In the following verses we see a hint at that.

Exodus 28:29: "And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually."
Exodus 28:30: "And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually."

Judgment doesn't always have to do with annihilation or chastisement; it can be as simple as obtaining God's best. God judges the churches in much the same manner in Revelation Chapters 2 and 3. Jesus finds fault with some and commends others. On the Breastplate of Judgment we see the ones judged to obtain that more prominent place.

I believe our reward in heaven will be according to our present walk with the Lord also.
In Jesus' name.

Ah, I see somebody has been paying attention to the details. Excellent catches, all.

The entirety of that sight gets progressively more interesting when we see the covering of jewels that is worn by a particular "bad actor." Ezekiel 28:13. It is then that we see the deeper wisdom of the priest and the king in our present roles. And even moreso when the jewels appear at the end, in Gods Own Treasure House. Rev. 21:19

 

[for_his_glory]

Okay, great! I see we have lots of differences, but that's alright. At least we can agree on the faithful servants, and that's the most critical area for believers.

I have a much different interpretation of His parables. In fact, a whole new rapture theory was created when I wrote my book. Of course, I never intended to create a new theory. Frankly, I didn't even realize it until after I read the first proof copy. As it turns out, I was breaking down Christ's answer to His disciples question (Matt. 24:3), which covers the rest of chapter 24 and all of chap. 25 as well. As I was breaking it down, writing my interpretation, one thing just led to another, and wa-lah, there it was. Most everyone else thinks the foolish virgins are doomed, because they think they were not really saved to begin with, but not so fast. There's another way to view it, and that's what I did. Anyway, not to keep rambling on, but I will also post my new theory soon, after I post the one about the two resurrections I promised the other day.

Looking forward to your post and know we will have a good discussion

 

[smaller]

I haven't exactly broken down the message to the 7 churches that way, but it looks like a very good observation on your part. Even the churches that He was warning, He gave promises to the overcomers in them, while the others were told that he will come on them unexpectedly and the outcome would not be good for them if they did not repent. I believe those who overcome will receive all of the promises given to each of the churches and more. They have kept His Word and done His Father's will. They are the doers of His Word and obedient (faithful servants) and they will be ready, but the others have soiled their garments.

IF any reader/believer is truthfully listening to what was Spoken to the 7 churches of Rev. 2-3, they will listen to every Word, and apply every Word to themselves. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

Whether they do or not, Every Word will fall upon us, regardless.

Many believe that the entire church will be raptured and then judged in the clouds/air. But I think many of those who believe that are headed for a very rude awakening. The way I see it, He is constantly judging us and observing how we respond to trials and tribulations that He sends, in order that we may mature. He is the Supreme Judge of the universe. His ways are much higher than ours. We often think of judges in this world, where you have an appointed time to appear at court. You have to travel to the judge's courtroom and make a physical appearance before him. But it's not going to be that way when we are judged by the REAL Supreme Court. Everything we do and have done is recorded in His books, and nothing we say or do in this world is hidden from Him. The only thing we can do to change His judgment is to repent before He appears in the clouds. When He steps off of His throne in heaven and begins His descent in the clouds, His judgment will already be set, and He said that He is bringing our reward with Him when He comes (Rev. 22:12).

I already know how thee end will come. It is not as most presume in their doomsday visions. It is in fact the exact opposite.

THEE END was long ago prophesied by Isaiah, read it and be overwhelmed, or flooded, if you prefer:

Isaiah 54:
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
6 For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

 

[for_his_glory]

IF any reader/believer is truthfully listening to what was Spoken to the 7 churches of Rev. 2-3, they will listen to every Word, and apply every Word to themselves. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

Whether they do or not, Every Word will fall upon us, regardless.


I already know how thee end will come. It is not as most presume in their doomsday visions. It is in fact the exact opposite.

THEE END was long ago prophesied by Isaiah, read it and be overwhelmed, or flooded, if you prefer:

Isaiah 54:
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
6 For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

smaller, how do you see this as being the way the end of days come? I read this as having the peace of God instilled within us that nothing of this world can come against us and prosper even if they kill the flesh they can never kill the soul, Matthew 10:28.

 

[smaller]

smaller, how do you see this as being the way the end of days come? I read this as having the peace of God instilled within us that nothing of this world can come against us and prosper even if they kill the flesh they can never kill the soul, Matthew 10:28.

I've noted before that the "destruction" that God Promises for end time as it pertains to believers is the opposite of what most believers think. Here for example is one of the Divine Tools that will unfold, progressively, until "thee end" where it will come "like" a flood or as a fire:

Romans 12:
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Where we see depictions of the infamous 100lb hailstones it is A PICTURE of Gods Hardened Words. It has "literally" nothing to do with physical large hailstones.

There is part of us who is always ready for Jesus "full" return and part of us that also fears and dreads. The entirety of end time understandings is purposefully "masked" by parables and similitudes.

If believers have no basis of understanding the language of God, which DOES take a considerable amount of work on the part of the Holy Spirit, to vivify to us in understanding the language of God, they simply won't get it and the flesh will lean to the physical, always, in understanding. But that is NOT how it's going down.

The end will come in a FLOOD of GODS MERCY, just and exactly as noted by Isaiah and by Jesus, the same.

There is however still meat to be carved on the subject.

It is just LIKE this: Where people read that men will look for death and will not find it, they presume it is because of endless TORTURE, when in fact there will be ENDLESS LIFE.

Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

The devils, in short, are TORMENTED by the Divine Holy Eternal things of GOD.

All end time matters are in fact about the END of the devils TIME. It is THEY who will "finally" at long last fall under Gods Wrath.

What we "don't" see is that wrath will actually fall on US and "we" shall be changed.

 

[for_his_glory]

Am I understanding you right that you are saying nothing in Revelations is literal, but only symbolic?
You said: "What we "don't" see is that wrath will actually fall on US and "we" shall be changed.

Sorry my friend, but Gods wrath is not for the just, but for the unjust that reject Christ.

The seven trumpets are all about Gods wrath being poured out upon all nations at the end of days and has everything to do with Gods Salvation as many during this time will repent and turn back to God as they will finally have ears to hear the gospel being preached to them by all those who are still alive at this time and have Gods anointing to preach the Gospel. There are no separate trumpets for the saints and sinners as there are only seven that are sounded by the angels as God sends each one out as the soundings brings in all of Gods wrath upon those who refuse to repent and turn back to Him. God said that He would that none should perish, 2Peter 3:9, even though God's longsuffering and patience will come to an end as everyone will have an opportunity to repent as the Gospels will have been preached to everyone, but it is only those who will accept Gods free gift of grace, Ephesians 2:8, by faith will be saved. All who are in Christ and He in them including those who at this time of the end have finally accepted Jesus will have eternal life with the Father.

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

It's during the sounding of the seventh trumpet as being the last trumpet mentioned in 1Corinthians 15:52 and 1Thess 4:16 that during this last trumpet mystery Babylon being the mother of harlots will be revealed as the the son of perdition will be exposed, 2Thess 2:3, who is the false prophet as he forces all to bow down to him and take the mark of the beast or face persecution even to death as many saints of God at this time will die a martyr's death for their witness and testimony of Christ and many who are weak in faith will fall away from Christ as they accept this mark as they fear for their own lives as this is the falling away the scriptures speak of in 2Thessalonians 2:1-3 and Hebrews 6:4-6.

It is not until Babylon the great is destroyed that Christ returns in the air as we are all gathered together in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at that time and come back with Him as part of His army in Rev 19 that are clothed in fine linen, white and clean as He destroys the beast and the false prophet casting them into the lake of fire, binds Satan and then lets him loose for a little while to wage war against the saints of God, but his army is destroyed by fire that God sends down from heaven then Satan is cast into the lake of fire followed by those whose names are not written in the book of life Rev 20. God makes new the heaven and earth, sends down the new Jerusalem and there we will be with the Lord for eternity.

 

[smaller]

Am I understanding you right that you are saying nothing in Revelations is literal, but only symbolic?

Who says the symbolism therein, which is quite obvious, isn't REAL?

Believers often mistake parables, similitude and allegories for not "real." They are real matters. But not matters as seen or perceived through the 5 physical senses.

You said: "What we "don't" see is that wrath will actually fall on US and "we" shall be changed.

Sorry my friend, but Gods wrath is not for the just, but for the unjust that reject Christ.

I've given this example many times. Read the below and ask me if there is not a party present that IS under Gods Wrath, Condemnation and forthcoming destruction:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

To me it is entirely obvious who that party is.

The seven trumpets are all about Gods wrath being poured out upon all nations at the end of days and has everything to do with Gods Salvation as many during this time will repent and turn back to God as they will finally have ears to hear the gospel being preached to them by all those who are still alive at this time and have Gods anointing to preach the Gospel.

I can simultaneously guarantee that the parties in question won't be cooperating, obeying, listening, hearing or whatever joint venture might be proposed and will in fact do the exact opposite by Divine Decree.

I might even look for a bumpy ride ahead, for THEM, and for us all in the process.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter in->to the kingdom of God.

There are no separate trumpets for the saints and sinners as there are only seven that are sounded by the angels as God sends each one out as the soundings brings in all of Gods wrath upon those who refuse to repent and turn back to Him.

We won't be hearing any trumpets either, in the literal senses. The "call" has already gone out and gone forth. All that remains is the mop up process, which Revelation speaks to in it's entirety. Not everyone and everything we currently are "in the flesh" is going through the portal, to be brief about it. There is going to be a very real separation transpiring and very real resistance to it.

Just hearing of this information personally will cause every reader to buckle, in this way.

Ezekiel 21:7
And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord God.

There are going to be no "personal exemptions" granted.

God said that He would that none should perish, 2Peter 3:9, even though God's longsuffering and patience will come to an end as everyone will have an opportunity to repent as the Gospels will have been preached to everyone, but it is only those who will accept Gods free gift of grace, Ephesians 2:8, by faith will be saved. All who are in Christ and He in them including those who at this time of the end have finally accepted Jesus will have eternal life with the Father.

That is what I might call the common "last chance" sight that exists in some arena's of eschatology. That view is not and can not be "right." There are other parties to the drama that will not be having any last chances and never had them to begin with.

I might term the end time as a time of the collective insanity of the flesh, where the reality of Romans sets in hard and fast:

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Believers will NOT be an exception to the above nor will our present sinful hides be spared. A single Word from God can melt the bowels of every flesh man, JUST as it did at Sinai where the people begged Moses to make God stop speaking because they were scared to core of their beings. Exodus 19-20

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

It's during the sounding of the seventh trumpet as being the last trumpet mentioned in 1Corinthians 15:52 and 1Thess 4:16 that during this last trumpet mystery Babylon being the mother of harlots will be revealed as the the son of perdition will be exposed,

They've already been openly revealed, but believers can't believe what they read, nor perceive it.

I can read quite clearly "who" the problems are. It's just as clear as a BELL or a TRUMPET to my eyes:

Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

And where does this WHORE sit? Why, in people, of course. Rev. 17:15

Yet countless believers will scratch their heads and guess, it's ROME, it's the POPE, it's JERUSALEM, it's THE JEWS, it's the UK kingship, yada yada yada when the answers stare them right between the eyes and they literally CAN NOT SEE it.

And then they make up stories that point to every direction but the most obvious.

go figure.

But that's all part of what is to transpire and what has already transpired.

The more Gods Words are lifted UP, the more resistance follows, guaranteed.

At the last hurrah I expect most will come to see who the real pharaoh is, and that not a "flesh man."

Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

What "sea and rivers" are being referred to here? See previous, Rev. 17:15

No, it is not a 'literal' sea or literal rivers. Nevertheless, quite real.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

There are no exceptions.

 

[for_his_glory]

Who says the symbolism therein, which is quite obvious, isn't REAL?

Believers often mistake parables, similitude and allegories for not "real." They are real matters. But not matters as seen or perceived through the 5 physical senses.



I've given this example many times. Read the below and ask me if there is not a party present that IS under Gods Wrath, Condemnation and forthcoming destruction:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

To me it is entirely obvious who that party is.


I can simultaneously guarantee that the parties in question won't be cooperating, obeying, listening, hearing or whatever joint venture might be proposed and will in fact do the exact opposite by Divine Decree.

I might even look for a bumpy ride ahead, for THEM, and for us all in the process.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter in->to the kingdom of God.


We won't be hearing any trumpets either, in the literal senses. The "call" has already gone out and gone forth. All that remains is the mop up process, which Revelation speaks to in it's entirety. Not everyone and everything we currently are "in the flesh" is going through the portal, to be brief about it. There is going to be a very real separation transpiring and very real resistance to it.

Just hearing of this information personally will cause every reader to buckle, in this way.

Ezekiel 21:7
And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord God.

There are going to be no "personal exemptions" granted.


That is what I might call the common "last chance" sight that exists in some arena's of eschatology. That view is not and can not be "right." There are other parties to the drama that will not be having any last chances and never had them to begin with.

I might term the end time as a time of the collective insanity of the flesh, where the reality of Romans sets in hard and fast:

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Believers will NOT be an exception to the above nor will our present sinful hides be spared. A single Word from God can melt the bowels of every flesh man, JUST as it did at Sinai where the people begged Moses to make God stop speaking because they were scared to core of their beings. Exodus 19-20



They've already been openly revealed, but believers can't believe what they read, nor perceive it.

I can read quite clearly "who" the problems are. It's just as clear as a BELL or a TRUMPET to my eyes:

Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

And where does this WHORE sit? Why, in people, of course. Rev. 17:15

Yet countless believers will scratch their heads and guess, it's ROME, it's the POPE, it's JERUSALEM, it's THE JEWS, it's the UK kingship, yada yada yada when the answers stare them right between the eyes and they literally CAN NOT SEE it.

And then they make up stories that point to every direction but the most obvious.

go figure.

But that's all part of what is to transpire and what has already transpired.

The more Gods Words are lifted UP, the more resistance follows, guaranteed.

At the last hurrah I expect most will come to see who the real pharaoh is, and that not a "flesh man."

Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

What "sea and rivers" are being referred to here? See previous, Rev. 17:15

No, it is not a 'literal' sea or literal rivers. Nevertheless, quite real.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

There are no exceptions.

OK, Thank you for your reply

 

[ezra]

what a mess if your a christian /saved when christ returns all go

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

what a mess if your a christian /saved when christ returns all go

Did you read the OP?

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

if a person is truly saved/born again/christian they will be ready .now granted as true Christians when that time comes we will be gone. but how many feel %100 ready for that day and give a account .. i would hope when that time comes i will have gotten my fleshly ways took care of. . this is not a theology debate .but trying to make a point

Did you read the OP?