Will Ezekiel 38-39 happen before or after the Rapture?

[Kathi]

This is an interesting current news story.


http://news.yahoo.com/russia-signs-military-cooperation-deal-iran-151246839.html
Tehran (AFP) - Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu signed a military cooperation deal with Iran on Tuesday that his Iranian counterpart touted as a joint response to US "interference".

Shoigu is the most senior Russian military official to visit Tehran since 2002, according to Iranian media, and the agreement comes with both countries facing Western sanctions.

The deal provides for joint exercises and military training, as well as "cooperation in peacekeeping, maintaining regional and international security and stability, and fighting against separatism and extremism," the Iranian defence ministry website said.

Defence Minister Hossein Dehqan told state television that Iran and Russia had a "shared analysis of US global strategy, its interference in regional and international affairs and the need to cooperate in the struggle against the interference of foreign forces in the region."

Russia has long been Iran's principal foreign arms supplier but their ties took a major hit in 2010 when Moscow cancelled a contract to deliver advanced S-300 ground to air missiles, citing UN sanctions imposed over Tehran's nuclear programme.

 

[Malachi]

This prophecy regarding Gog and Magog is certainly not fulfilled before the Rapture, neither is it fulfilled before the Millenium (Rev 20:7-9). So this is just the initial negotiation between nations which will one day become a confederation under Satan:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Gog is "the prince" or leader of a Northern Confederation of nations (Magog) headed by Russia (Meshech, Tubal). Magog is the region around the Black Sea [including Russia, Ukraine, Georgia (Gomer), Iran (Persia),Turkey (Togarmah), Armenia (Togarmah), Bulgaria, Romania]. Other nations mentioned are Ethiopia and Libya. This prophecy in Ezekiel 38-39 corresponds to Revelation, in that when Gog and Magog come against Israel, the land is restored and at peace (Ezek 38:8,11,12). They will gather in the valley of Hamon-Gog (Hamonah) near the Dead Sea, which will become their burial ground after they are destroyed by God:

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

When Gog and Magog come against Israel, it will extend from the Nile to Euphrates (Gen 15:18) and will be a very wealthy and blessed land under Christ and His regent David. Therefore it will appear to Israel's enemies to be a very desirable conquest. But the Lord will destroy these armies with supernatural fire from Heaven -- "an overflowing rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone" (Ezek 38:22).

 

[Kathi]

It looks to me like there are two timings for God and Magog

Question: "What are Gog and Magog?"

Answer:Historically speaking, Magog was a grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:2). The descendants of Magog settled to the far north of Israel, likely in Europe and northern Asia (Ezekiel 38:2). Magog seems to be used to refer to "northern barbarians" in general, but likely also has a connection to Magog the person. The people of Magog are described as skilled warriors (Ezekiel 38:15;39:3-9).

Gog and Magog are referred to inEzekiel 38-39and inRevelation 20:7-8. While these two instances carry the same names, a close study of Scripture clearly demonstrates they do not refer to the same people and events. In Ezekiel’s prophecy, Gog will be the leader of a great army that attacks the land of Israel. Gog is described as “of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal” (Ezekiel 38:2-3). Ezekiel's battle of Gog and Magog occurs in the tribulation period, more specifically in the first 3 1/2 years. The strongest evidence for this view is that the attack will come when Israel is at peace (Ezekiel 38:8,11). The description from Ezekiel is that of a nation that has security and has laid down its defenses. Israel is definitely not at peace now, and it is inconceivable that the nation would lay down its defenses apart from some major event. When Israel's covenant with the Beast/Antichrist is in effect at the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week (also known as the 7-year tribulation,Daniel 9:27a), Israel will be at peace. Possibly the battle will occur just before the midpoint of the seven-year period. According to Ezekiel, Gog will be defeated by God Himself on the mountains of Israel. The slaughter will be so great it will take seven months to bury all of the dead (Ezekiel 39:11-12).

Gog and Magog are mentioned again inRevelation 20:7-8. The duplicated use of the names Gog and Magog inRevelation 20:8-9is to show that these people demonstrate the same rebellion against God and antagonism toward God as those inEzekiel 38-39. It is similar to someone today calling a person "the devil" because he or she is sinful and evil. We know that person is not really Satan, but because that person shares similar characteristics, he or she might be referred to as "the devil."

The book of Revelation uses Ezekiel's prophecy about Magog to portray a final end-times attack on the nation of Israel (Revelation 20:8-9). The result of this battle is that all are destroyed, and Satan will find his final place in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).

It is important to recognize that the Gog and Magog ofEzekiel 38-39is quite different from the one inRevelation 20:7-8. Below are some of the more obvious reasons why these refer to different people and battles.

1. In the battle ofEzekiel 38-39, the armies come primarily from the north and involve only a few nations of the earth (Ezekiel 38:6,15;39:2). The battle inRevelation 20:7-9will involve all nations, so armies will come from all directions, not just from the north.

2. There is no mention of Satan in the context ofEzekiel 38-39. InRevelation 20:7the context clearly places the battle at the end of the millennium with Satan as the primary character.

3.Ezekiel 39:11-12states that the dead will be buried for seven months. There would be no need to bury the dead if the battle inEzekiel 38-39is the one described inRevelation 20:8-9, for immediately followingRevelation 20:8-9is the Great White Throne judgment (20:11-15) and then the current or present heaven and earth are destroyed, replaced by a new heaven and earth (Revelation 21:1). There obviously will be a need to bury the dead if the battle takes place in the early part of the tribulation, for the land of Israel will be occupied for another 1,000 years, the length of the millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

4. The battle inEzekiel 38-39is used by God to bring Israel back to Him (Ezekiel 39:21-29). InRevelation 20, Israel has been faithful to God for 1,000 years (the millennial kingdom). Those inRevelation 20:7-10who are rebellious are destroyed without any more opportunity for repentance.


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Gog-Magog.html#ixzz3PTexRIsV

 

[Malachi]

Ezekiel's battle of Gog and Magog occurs in the tribulation period, more specifically in the first 3 1/2 years. The strongest evidence for this view is that the attack will come when Israel is at peace (Ezekiel 38:8,11).

The fallacy in this proposition is that Israel is not simply "at peace" as though the Antichrist has created a false peace during the tribulation period. What has been ignored is that God has brought back the Jews from among all the nations, and that occurs at the Second Coming and before the Millenium. Please note once again (and this was already pointed out):

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

All of this indicates that God has not only redeemed and restored Israel, but gathered the Jews from among all the nations and settled them in Israel prior to the Millenium. There is therefore only one battle of Gog and Magog, which is after the Millenium. It pays to go directly to Scripture.

 

[Kathi]

There is a lot of Scripture above to support two Gog and Magog.

 

[Sinthesis]

There is a lot of Scripture above to support two Gog and Magog.

You're right. Ezekiel 38-39 is describing one Gog/Magog through two wars, while Rev 20 describes a new entity, gathered under Satan, that attempts to refight those wars, so it is referred to as Gog/Magog to guide the reader.