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Women are deficient in intelligence and religion - Muhammad

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#21
DivineNames said:
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
There are standards laid out by the Apostles as to woman's role in the church. If you'd like to call that sexist, take it up with God.

Presumably the Muslim could give the same kind of answer with regard to wife beating.
You're right, a muslim could say that Mohammad gave guidlines to beat women. There is nothing Sinful about the standards laid out for a woman by Paul. If you'd like to call Paul sexist, take it up with God.

Servant of the Almighty, what are you looking to debate? The sexist practices of Islam? We know that they do it so why debate. Don't let just the RCC speak for Christianity.
 
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DivineNames

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#22
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
You're right, a muslim could say that Mohammad gave guidlines to beat women. There is nothing Sinful about the standards laid out for a woman by Paul. If you'd like to call Paul sexist, take it up with God.

Presumably the Muslim wouldn't claim that Muhammad gave guidelines for beating women. The Muslim would claim that Allah gave guidelines for beating women. They would say that there is nothing sinful about them, how could God give us permission to do something sinful?

If anyone thinks that the Quran is sexist on this point, the Muslim could tell them to, "take it up with God".
 
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DivineNames

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#24
evanman said:
I have yet to find Paul prescribing "God's rules for wife beating"?

There is a difference, but why can't the same kind of defence be used?


If we are allowed to say that such and such is divinely inspired and is therefore beyond criticism, couldn't anything be put beyond criticism in this way? (Whether or not it was actually divinely inspired.)
 
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#25
Not really, God is the final authority. There is nothing sinful written to us by Paul, and certainly no "excuse for beating a wife." For Muhammad and Allah, Muhammad was perfectly fine with the abuse of women, and clearly told us his Ideas came from Allah. There is nothing sinful about the Christians standards. Allah on the other hand barely seems just, because not only is he fine wih oppressing woman, but as terrorists would tell you, Allah tells them to murder.
 
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Asimov

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#26
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
Not really, God is the final authority. There is nothing sinful written to us by Paul, and certainly no "excuse for beating a wife." For Muhammad and Allah, Muhammad was perfectly fine with the abuse of women, and clearly told us his Ideas came from Allah. There is nothing sinful about the Christians standards. Allah on the other hand barely seems just, because not only is he fine wih oppressing woman, but as terrorists would tell you, Allah tells them to murder.
So....how exactly is God telling Moses and his cronies to enter the land of Canaan and kill everyone (except unmarried virgin women) not murder?
 
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DivineNames

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#27
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
Not really, God is the final authority. There is nothing sinful written to us by Paul, and certainly no "excuse for beating a wife." For Muhammad and Allah, Muhammad was perfectly fine with the abuse of women, and clearly told us his Ideas came from Allah. There is nothing sinful about the Christians standards. Allah on the other hand barely seems just, because not only is he fine wih oppressing woman, but as terrorists would tell you, Allah tells them to murder.


Muslims would believe that there is nothing sinful in the Quran. Also, some people today would regard "non-ordination of women" as morally wrong.


How do we determine what is sinful?

It obviously can't be based on scripture, or your argument falls apart.
 
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DivineNames

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#28
ServantOfTheAlmighty said:
for every male convert to Islam, 4 female convert.


(1) Women are deficient in intelligence. (Muhammad)

(2) For every male convert to Islam, 4 female convert. (ServantOfTheAlmighty)


Conclusion?


The overwhelming majority of those who convert to Islam are deficient in intelligence.


:biggrin
 
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#29
Sure we can. as often as people try to claim the Bible to contradict it self, they haven't proved it once after returning to the correct context. You can pick apart the koran.
 
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DivineNames

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#30
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
Sure we can. as often as people try to claim the Bible to contradict it self, they haven't proved it once after returning to the correct context. You can pick apart the koran.

Was that aimed at me?


To quote Chris Morris with regard to the Bible, "We have had this book analysed and it reads like the rambling's of a drugged horse." (Brass Eye/"decline" episode)
 
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DivineNames

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#31
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
Allah on the other hand barely seems just, because not only is he fine wih oppressing woman, but as terrorists would tell you, Allah tells them to murder.


The Christian God is often claimed to burn non-Christians in Hell for all eternity.

Many people would regard such a God as monstrously unjust.
 
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#32
What's unjust about this? God created us. We do what he asked us not to do. We mock the sacrifice he gave us, which was his son. When we do wrong we must be punished. Therefore God condemns no man to hell, but man condemns himself. How is that Unjust?
 
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Chupacabra

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#33
What's unjust about this? God created us. We do what he asked us not to do. We mock the sacrifice he gave us, which was his son. When we do wrong we must be punished. Therefore God condemns no man to hell, but man condemns himself. How is that Unjust?
First off, we can assume that god engineered man's psychological processes. These processes give human beings a natural tendency to sin, thus god did a poor job designing mankind. In addition, many humans have never even heard of Judaism or Christianity, thus they have no idea what the Bible says and cannot justly be held accountable for violating the Bible's rules because they, through no fault of their own, have never heard these rules.
 
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#34
Where did that come from, chupa? The accountability arguement is just taht a separate argument. That's not what I'm disscussing here, I can't speak for Divine.

As to creating man, God gave us free will, as He has free will. We are not God, and we are not perfect, that's just how God created us.If you would like to continue this discussion, then make a new thread.
 
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evanman

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#35
This forum is to discuss Christianity and other Religions, it is not for passing judgement on whether God is just or not!
 
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DivineNames

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#36
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
What's unjust about this? God created us. We do what he asked us not to do. We mock the sacrifice he gave us, which was his son. When we do wrong we must be punished. Therefore God condemns no man to hell, but man condemns himself. How is that Unjust?

I will quote Alan Watts, and I fully agree with it-


"(Hell) Taken literally as a doctrine of everlasting torture without any kind of mitigation or solution, it amounts to blasphemy itself, for if it were in the power of human freedom to produce a consequence of this kind there must be something radically diabolical in the order created by God, and in God himself. Such an interpretation of the doctrine may vindicate human freedom, but at the cost of demonizing God. Furthermore, when understood in this way the doctrine does not even guarantee the freedom of the human will to resist God eternally, because if the damned continue inevitably to resist God they do not do so freely."
 
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DivineNames

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#38
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
When we do wrong we must be punished. Therefore God condemns no man to hell, but man condemns himself. How is that Unjust?

Few would dispute the uncontroversial principle that someone who has done something substantially wrong is justly punished for it.


Let us say (for example) that someone deliberately pushes another individual for no good reason. They are subsequently given the death penalty for it. This would be universally regarded as an unjust punishment because it is out of all proportion to the crime committed.

In one lifetime a person can presumably only commit a finite quantity of sin. Hell is claimed to involve, "everlasting torture". It is not merely that the punishment is out of all proportion to the sin committed, it is that there is absolutely no proportion at all between the sin and the consequent punishment.
 
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DivineNames

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#39
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
What does the last post have to do with sexism in Islam?

Nothing at all, but we have gone down this path. I was responding to something that you had said.

Quit whining.
 
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#40
evanman said:
This forum is to discuss Christianity and other Religions, it is not for passing judgement on whether God is just or not!
I'm not the one who's telling us to get back on topic. If you want to continue on this discussion, just let me know. However, this thread is not the place for this discussion.
 

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