Bible Study Women in the church

[duval]

Hi Pogo: In my understanding I believe you are correct, thats why my wife of recent months began wearing a covering.

Am wondering if you got my mail. Will not send more till I know for sure and would hope you would forward it to Handy.

I also wonder if we are members of the "one body", it seems likely.

 

[Pogo]

duval -

Thanks for weighing in on this aspect of 'wearing a covering'!

I can't help but see it as risky behavior to ignore those passages referencing 'glorifing one's head.'

Regarding my email, I still have a problem with my desk-top.

I tried to switch my brower from IE to Mozilla...Mozilla installed but I can't access it because of my security setting.

Now, for some reason, using IE, my email won't work, nor can I make bids on eBay!

I've changed some of the settings, to no avail.

I should've gotten my laptop back this past week-end, but it may be this week-end before I get it.

If you've got something that you feel is worth sharing, then by all means, send it on, I'll get it eventually, I'm sure!

Regarding church, I've come to see that everyone thinks that their church is THE church, but I've walked away from two different denominations myself, and one rejected me, rather than change, when I pointed out their errors to them.

Aside from four other souls that I know personally, and have a weekly Bible study with, I've come to regard everyone else as, ultimately...lost...and in need of evangelizing!

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[duval]

POGO:
Sounds much like my experience. I've left 2 denominations and several congregations of which faith I am apart.

 

[Joshua]

Aside from four other souls that I know personally, and have a weekly Bible study with, I've come to regard everyone else as, ultimately...lost...and in need of evangelizing!

WOW, that's a bold statement.

Can I ask a question?

In your view...how does one gain salvation? Or this question...how does one come to know they will spend eternity in heaven with God?

 

[Pogo]

Hi, Joshua -

Good questions, off topic, but still, good questions!

Let me start with your last question first.

As I interpret the scriptures...the only way that one can be absolutely sure that they will spend eternity in heaven...is AFTER they have walked past St. Peter, through the Pearly Gates into Heaven itself, having been judged worthy by God.

Even Paul, himself, was unsure of his salvation! See below...

Titus 1:1-2 KJV
(1) Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
(2) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Oops..unexpected company has just arrived...let me finish this post later, Joshua...

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Pogo]

Joshua -

For one to “gain salvation,†an over simplified explanation would be to say that one must be found to be an obedient Christian on the Last Day.

Many disputes can, will, and do arise over the many facets implied in that one statement above!

How does one become a Christian?

Aren’t ALL Christians obedient Christians?

If not, why not?

Why do the Christians in your church do things different than the Christians in my church?

Yadda yadda yadda...

This topic really belongs in a thread of it's own, but let me ask YOU Joshua...what must one do to become a Christian?

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Joshua]

This topic really belongs in a thread of it's own, but let me ask YOU Joshua...what must one do to become a Christian?

In Christ,

Pogo

Pogo,
I believe on becomes a Christian by the following...let me break it down...

1.) Acknowledge I am a sinner in need of a Savior - thus repenting and turning away from sin.

2.) I believe in my heart that Jesus died on the cross and God raised Jesus from the dead - I trust that Jesus paid the full penalty for my sins with His blood.

3.) I confess Jesus as my Lord and my God, to surrender control of my life to Jesus.

4.) I receive Jesus as my Savior forever.

 

[duval]

Pogo:
While true that we cannot know for certain our eternal status in this life, there is a sence in which we can.
Rom.8:16,17: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God; and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;---"

I Jn.5::13: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life,---"

 

[Pogo]

Joshua –

Thanks for taking the time, and making the effort, to respond.

By comparing our views on becoming a Christian, maybe you will come to understand, better, why I see so many as ‘lost’.

I don’t exactly, totally, perfectly, agree with the break down, which you have listed…mainly because water is lacking.

The following are the steps as I see the scriptures teaching.

Before anything can happen –

First, we must hear the truth being preached/taught.

Second, we must believe this truth...that Jesus is the one true living Son, of the one true living God, Jehovah.

Third, we must publicly confess this belief before men.

Fourth, we are then to publicly repent of our past sins.

And finally, fifth, we are to be baptised, by immersion, into water.

As is now obvious...I believe in taking the literal examples, and commands, of the scriptures LITERALLY!

Now I realize that your understanding is the most popular of the two, and I regret that we don’t see eye-to-eye on this issue.

But, by my becoming a Christian late in life, after years of skepticism, I screen the teachings of churches, led by fallible, mortal men, through the eyes of a cynic.

And, I have found much error being taught in every main stream denomination that I have taken the time to examine.

I invite you, and everyone, to compare these two accounts of ours, above, against the scriptures, if you haven't already, and draw your own conclusion.

Joshua, you certainly don’t have to agree with my views, and most probably won’t.

I’m just trying to give you ONE example, of many, of why I feel that most who call themselves Christians, are in my eyes, ultimately…lost.

BTW - Joshua, please feel free to weigh-in here on this issue of women 'wearing a veil' during prayer!

What is the position of the leadership of your church on this subject? And, do you agree with it?

duval -

Of course, you are exactly right, it's just that I can't expect others to believe ME when I share that with them, because I don't believe OTHERS who say that, when their walk conflicts with what I see the scriptures teaching.

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[duval]

Pogo---I understand the matter of becoming a Christian exactly as you have explained. In fact, regarding baptism, I have been christened once, sprinkled once and immerced 3 times.

 

[Pogo]

duval -

My "brother in Christ," this is great to know!

It seems that in your walk with Christ, that you have had to reject many teachings in order to stay true to the teachings of the scriptures...as have I.

It is wonderful to find others who are TRULY seeking the truth!

In addition to baptism, and 'properly glorifing our head', I see the communion service, as an area that many are falling short on!

Maybe we can compare notes on this issue one day.

May God bless us all,

Pogo

 

[duval]

Hi Pogo:
As to the communion, every Lord's day.

 

[Pogo]

duval -

Correct!

But...only...ONCE...per Lord's Day!

AND...ONLY...fermented, alcoholic, grape juice, better known today as WINE on the Lord's Table!

AND...ONLY using...ONE...loaf, cake, cracker...of unleavened bread on the Lord's Table!

Please search other threads here related to ALCOHOL, BREAD, and the LORD'S SUPPER for the supports for my positions...if interested.

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Cornelius]

Good turn of topic. I am going to open a thread :"How and when are we saved?" Its worth discussing,,,,,,
C

 

[sheshisown]

Gents~

I know you all want to keep the TOS rules by sticking with the topic of this thread. We can all veer a little into other discussions, but changing the topic creates a confusing mess, especially for those who are reading along.

Remember, you are welcome to start another topic at any time... Got anything else to share biblically regarding women in the church men?

And... thanks!
bonnie

 

[unworthySlave]

Woman Teaching

In the United States today there are so many false teachings across the entire country. One such teaching, is that Woman are able to teach and exercise authority over men. Many mainstream denominations have ordained woman pastors. Yet, Scripture states that a woman is not to to teach or exercise authority over a man. I am in no way trying to belittle women or anything of the like, but rather I am simply seeking God's truth and not human wisdom.

First, I would like to state that there is a mention of a woman judge (Deborah) and a deaconess (Phoebe). But judges and deaconess, are not the same as teachers/pastors/overseers/bishops. Also, more importantly, both a Christian man and a Christian woman are one in Christ. However that does not negate the fact that God has ordained different roles for each. I will glad go into more detail on any of these issues if someone would like me to do so.

Now for the fun part: Scripture!

1 Timothy 2:11-15, "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."

Here Paul states that a woman is not to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. What is the reason for this? Is it a cultural reason? The answer is for it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. The word "for" denotes that something proceeded beforehand, and now everything following the "for" is the reason why. It is the same as saying "because." Notice it is a historical reason (one which will never change) and for this reason it applies to all generations, not merely that culture.

I can explain 1 Timothy deeper for anyone interested, but for now I would just like to post Scripture and if anyone has an objections to what it says, we shall go from there.

1 Corinthians 12:34-35, "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Note: Silence in this context denotes silence before the entire church, not being completely mute. Compare verse 28.

This is the truth of Scripture. Woman are not to teach or exercise authority over man. If anyone has an objections, they are not supported by Scripture and I would be more than willing to point out why not.

I say this out of love for God and His Word and for everyone. It is the truth and it must be said!

 

[Pogo]

Hello, unworthySlave,

Welcome to these forums!

Agreed!

And, your views on women wearing a covering during prayer would be...

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[shad]

double

 

[shad]

Women in the church

There are too many corrupt churches and leaders. Women ought to watch out for just blindly following men or their husbands. Women have responsiblity to raise their children as they should go. I have seen many, many tragidies that women submit to their husbands and they neglect their most important duty of raising their children as godly followers of Jesus. Children will learn to be hypocrites if their both parents are not obedient to Jesus. Our ultimate head is Jesus, no one should follow their husbands or leaders blindly. We should separate ourselves from unbiblical leaders including husbands. I am not saying to divorce them.

 

[lovely]

1 Peter 3:1-7

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters F14 ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

I think that a man has a responsibility to give honor to his wife in the marriage, it's obvious in this passage, but according to Peter God still requires that a woman be submissive to a disobedient husband so that he can be won 'without the word', by her example of honoring God and laying down her life...God considers this of high value. It's better for children if at least one parent is exampling obedience to God before them, rather than both of them claiming God and walking in disobedience. To leave, and not submit, is to be a hypocrite if we look at Peter's writings here, not an example of obedience and Godliness. If the wife can win her husband by her example, she can also lead the children by her example of obeying God's Word here and submitting to her disobedient husband. To separate is to go further than just leaving his headship, it is distorting God's picture of marriage even more before the children...not only is dad disobedient, but now mom is too, and there is no marriage picture at all before them.

I can site two examples of this that I have witnessed first hand. My dad, who was an unbeliever my whole life, was saved a few years back, because his wife became a believer and 'won' him with her submission and service. She is one of the most beautiful believers I know, and I am so grateful to her for obeying God's Word. Secondly, a friend I grew up with married an atheist, he was strongly against the idea of God, but she came to Christ a few years after they were married...he became a believer 4 years ago...she had faith, obeyed this Scripture, and God blessed them both through her walk.

The Lord bless you.

edited to correct my "without the word' quote.