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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
WOMEN PASTORS
- Thread starter Bonairos
- Start date
jasoncran
Member
lovely, a lewis w retread.
i dont mind it but i prefer men, the bible is agianst women as bishops.women cant be a husband
Bonairos
Member
Sorry. I didn't see the thread or subject being discussed. You can delete this thread.
Be blessed, Stay blessed!
jasoncran
Member
no need, lewis doest these thread once in a while. this gets often heated. you will see ,but you can learn alot.
just be civil.
A
Alabaster
Guest
In a time when scripture was written, women were never wives of more than one husband--that was just not done. They were considered chattel, and not free to accumulate spouses like men were! Therefore it would be stupid for Paul to declare an edict concerning women and multiple spouses. The bible is therefore not against women as bishops, which were really elders or overseers.
Jason, there were women pastors under Paul, He affirmed women in ministry, acting on behalf of Jesus Christ as His faithful servant.
jasoncran
Member
titus says that the bishop must be a HUSBAND of ONE wife. now then ally can you be a husband? btw my demonation is for women pastors but not bishops that verse is why?
again its hard for a women to be a man and not well sin.
that is rather dubious logic. why wouldnt paul say that more clearly.
titus 1 kjv
Titus 1
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
again its hard for a women to be a man and not well sin.
that is rather dubious logic. why wouldnt paul say that more clearly.
titus 1 kjv
Titus 1
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
A
Alabaster
Guest
Take it in the context of the Hebrew culture, Jason!
Women were not considered equal, but Jesus was building in a change for His Kingdom! Paul appointed female pastors. Those who oversaw, such as elders or bishops had to have one spouse. In that day, women were not equal to men so having more than one spouse would be unheard of! That is why it mentions the male bishop or elder, and doesn't pose the restriction on the woman. It would be silly to.
Having one spouse is the requirement. There is no requirement for gender at all.
Women were not considered equal, but Jesus was building in a change for His Kingdom! Paul appointed female pastors. Those who oversaw, such as elders or bishops had to have one spouse. In that day, women were not equal to men so having more than one spouse would be unheard of! That is why it mentions the male bishop or elder, and doesn't pose the restriction on the woman. It would be silly to.
Having one spouse is the requirement. There is no requirement for gender at all.
jasoncran
Member
if we did that all were consistent then i guess i should also argue that despite that law men and girls are adults and we need to let that teen marry if they want too.
after all its hebrew culture. one cant arbitralary decide that with this verse. i do believe in women pastors just not bishops as the bible states.
A
Alabaster
Guest
Well, the bible doesn't really state what you are claiming. You are reading into it from two millennia in the future.
This thread isn't concerning overseers, so we are in agreement at least about pastors!
jasoncran
Member
that is because you arent a jew to know that concept, the bar mitzvah is as old if not older then christs date time on the earth, i have proof of that.
two millenia. uh now, i can look and take from the many jewish sites to find out. i have been in contact with one orthodox group.
History of the Bar and Bat Mitzvah
Judaism 101: Torah
the oral traditions go way back.
A
Alabaster
Guest
Honey, it makes no matter whether or not I am a Jew. I make it a rule to try to understand Scripture in the context of the Hebraic roots. It makes much more sense and my heart is blessed by the deep truths that this wonderful and important point of view brings.
I have no idea why you are bringing up the Mitzvah.
jasoncran
Member
because you claimed that jews did marry more then one wife and somehow that paul was addresed that to say that polygamy wasnt what he was adressing. that women couldnt marry more then one man.Paul said that because he want to end the practice of POLGAMY as the jews did that then and delineated there is the only reason we christians cant marry more then one wife and vice versa. the torah and tanakh and the talmud then oral traditions dont negate the concept of polygamy but that verse in titus ALONE does.
so if one wants to argue that one can ignore the jewish mitvahs then as the teens were as young adults today and yet say women can be bishops is most contradictory.Paul was bar mitzvahed! not like we see today though.
just bringing up the whole picture of what the jews did then and to show you that you arbitralarily decided which to follow. i am not taking your position nor imply that we should let teens marry.
"Paul appointed female pastors"??? You may want to repent now while you have the chance for changing the word of God, if not you may be really embarrassed at the judgment seat of Christ trying to explain how you contradicted God. Paul was clear that males were to be in authority in the church.
I am always amazed at people who pull this kind of stuff, we all know what Paul said about male authority in the church, yet there are always professing christians who demonstrate no fear of God in this area. I would be terrified to change anything in the word of God because we will all be judged one day on how truthful we were with God's word.
well we have acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" and 2:18 "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" Now then we have been in the last days since the day of Pentecost according to Peter as he qoutes the prophet from the old testament.
A
Alabaster
Guest
I have never changed one word of the Scriptures. We are called to use Godly discernment when studying it. I suggest you do that.
Paul never made any decree about males having church authority.
H
Hitch
Guest
Dont blame the world for Pentecostal bovine excrement.
jasoncran
Member
the problem with that is that the next verse is talking about marriage not the church read that verse in timothy in context.
1 Timothy 2
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
why does paul vs 15 talk about child rearing? when that doesnt fit your view?