Worldly, and Spiritual Christians

[Opywang]

There is two type of Christian one is worldly, and the other is Spiritual. If we speak of things spiritual, and the worldly doesn't understand spiritual should remain silent that is just my opinion, but to those that are spiritual should first humble the best as they can because they can be in error if they do not understand spiritual fully.

What do Christian profit to the believers if they desire to tear down what God has reveal, and yes they can put a religion curse on them to attack what God has blessed, and that why we spiritual Christian must take careful approach because the pharisees can try to attack you, and put a curse on you.

Jesus hated the pharisees, and woe them, and is against religion spirits, and legalism. If a brother truly believe this is what God has reveal then what do we profit if we try to make them go against God, and make them turn there heart away from the LORD they will recieve a curse.

Jeremiah 17:5 ►
This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

Religion curse is a real thing, and we must take extra caution not to get caught in a trap with wolves, and sheep clothing that desire to tear you down over a disagreement.

Hypocrite is the major problem, and people love hypocrisy rather than truth even if you tell a brother that we must trust the LORD, and not man these people will still be hypocrite, and say don't trust the LORD trust man, and this is who Christ woe to.

Romans 14:13-23
Do Not Cause Another to Stumble
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

Lots of people desire to put a stumbling block in your path, and desire to turn your heart away from the LORD. We need to be careful not to make judgement to quickly, and we need to not assume everything right away, and that why it's written it says test everything with carefulness, and it even say let love be without hypocrissy.

​

 

[WIP]

Jesus hated the pharisees,

Can you provide a Biblical reference to support this statement?

 

[ezra]

i dont think he hated any one..he gave Judas a chance hate is not his nature love is

 

[Edward]

i dont think he hated any one..he gave Judas a chance hate is not his nature love is

That would be correct. Jesus hates no one and died for all.
We're to walk in that love to our Brothers and Sisters here on earth. That can be so hard to do at times for me!
Loving those that love you is easy, but I think the Lord may have sent the most demonic short tempered obnoxious fellow into my life (he needs help) to teach me how to love him...like Jesus loves me (I prayed for that) but not him!
Why does it seem like, the Lord answers some prayers...in the exact opposite worst situation that I could imagine?! (Please Lord, not that!)

...and yet, that was the very walk of our Lord upon rhe earth.
I wanna pull my hair out sometimes, lol. Love our enemies even.

 

[ezra]

That would be correct. Jesus hates no one and died for all.
We're to walk in that love to our Brothers and Sisters here on earth. That can be so hard to do at times for me!
Loving those that love you is easy, but I think the Lord may have sent the most demonic short tempered obnoxious fellow into my life (he needs help) to teach me how to love him...like Jesus loves me (I prayed for that) but not him!
Why does it seem like, the Lord answers some prayers...in the exact opposite worst situation that I could imagine?! (Please Lord, not that!)

...and yet, that was the very walk of our Lord upon rhe earth.
I wanna pull my hair out sometimes, lol. Love our enemies even.

your not alone

 

[Razeontherock]

Loving those that love you is easy, but I think the Lord may have sent the most demonic short tempered obnoxious fellow into my life (he needs help) to teach me

I hope your boss doesn't see you talking that way about him, lol

 

[Edward]

I hope your boss doesn't see you talking that way about him, lol

Nah, this ones my neighbor.

 

[Northman]

That's quite the post. It's already given the tell of who is who.

God said He hated Esau. Jesus said if we do not hate our mother and father and even our own lives, we cannot be His disciples. Think in those terms. Give the guy some credit and consider what he is typing might be laid out to him by the Holy Spirit.

 

[WIP]

That's quite the post. It's already given the tell of who is who.

God said He hated Esau. Jesus said if we do not hate our mother and father and even our own lives, we cannot be His disciples. Think in those terms. Give the guy some credit and consider what he is typing might be laid out to him by the Holy Spirit.

I've never studied that portion of Scripture but I do wonder if the translation is accurate in using the word "hate." Do other translations render it that way as well?

 

[Papa Zoom]

Seems to me a word study is a place to start. Our western view of "hate" isn't likely the same as the Hebrew. We mostly read the Bible through western eyes (or from whatever culture is dominate in our lives) and often that leads us away from an accurate understanding of certain passages and concepts. Can a God of Love hate? Certainly there is more to understanding this question than the simple definition from Merriam Webster. Just offering a caution on going too far either direction with the idea of God hating.

http://firm.org.il/learn/jacob-loved-esau-hated/

 

[Razeontherock]

I've never studied that portion of Scripture but I do wonder if the translation is accurate in using the word "hate." Do other translations render it that way as well?

It is a troubling passage. My best research indicates it's the same hatred as for sin (comparing Malachi 1:3 with Proverbs 6:16)

Also in the NT it's miseo, sounds like the root for to make miserable and carries that connotation.

 

[tdidymas]

That's quite the post. It's already given the tell of who is who.

God said He hated Esau. Jesus said if we do not hate our mother and father and even our own lives, we cannot be His disciples. Think in those terms. Give the guy some credit and consider what he is typing might be laid out to him by the Holy Spirit.

I believe that Jesus gave the Pharisees and the religious leaders every chance to repent, so He didn't hate them in the way we think of hate today. Jesus said elsewhere "hate... in comparison to your love for Me." Therefore, Jesus' usage of this word is a hyperbole. It means that our priority for Christ is to be such a commitment that if it ever comes in conflict with relatives that our love for Christ might look like hate from the relative's viewpoint. IOW, if it comes "to a head" and there is an ultimatum, then we choose Christ and His way. Absolute commitment, even if the loved one thinks you are hating them.

And it is much the same way with Esau. In Heb, we are told that Esau was a "godless man" because he failed to believe in the value of his birthright, that it was a gift of God. Therefore he chose the easy fleshly way of survival and selfish pleasure instead of properly stewarding the gift that came from God. Just like choosing to marry ungodly women of the pagan tribes rather than patiently waiting on God for His choice. It was always about himself and his spontaneous desires, so he never walked in faith. So then, even though he was blessed by God materially, he never gained spiritual sight like Jacob did. So then, in comparison to God's love for Jacob, He "hated" Esau.

God has common love for all people, as He also bestows common grace, common mercy, etc. But to the believer, it is special love, special grace, special calling, special mercy. God's special love for His people who believe in Christ is greater than His common love He has for mankind in general. Thus, "whoever does not believe will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." So for everyone who persists in rejecting Christ his whole life on earth will be "hated" by God in the end at the judgment, to cast them into the lake of fire. He doesn't delight in the death of the wicked (which implies He loves them in a general sense), yet, He is angry enough at their sin to "destroy both their body and soul in hell." Is this "
"hate" as we think of it in this culture? You decide.
TD

 

[Edward]

Loving our enemies is not ad easy as it sounds. My spirit will say love them, but my flesh will say deck them (lol).

I think in order to love our enemies that spirit and flesh must be in agreement.

I'm working on that, but I can't do it yet. I'm gettin pretty good at forgiving, but thats after the fact...

 

[tdidymas]

There is two type of Christian one is worldly, and the other is Spiritual. If we speak of things spiritual, and the worldly doesn't understand spiritual should remain silent that is just my opinion, but to those that are spiritual should first humble the best as they can because they can be in error if they do not understand spiritual fully.

What do Christian profit to the believers if they desire to tear down what God has reveal, and yes they can put a religion curse on them to attack what God has blessed, and that why we spiritual Christian must take careful approach because the pharisees can try to attack you, and put a curse on you.

Jesus hated the pharisees, and woe them, and is against religion spirits, and legalism. If a brother truly believe this is what God has reveal then what do we profit if we try to make them go against God, and make them turn there heart away from the LORD they will recieve a curse.

Jeremiah 17:5 ►
This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

Religion curse is a real thing, and we must take extra caution not to get caught in a trap with wolves, and sheep clothing that desire to tear you down over a disagreement.

Hypocrite is the major problem, and people love hypocrisy rather than truth even if you tell a brother that we must trust the LORD, and not man these people will still be hypocrite, and say don't trust the LORD trust man, and this is who Christ woe to.

Romans 14:13-23
Do Not Cause Another to Stumble
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

Lots of people desire to put a stumbling block in your path, and desire to turn your heart away from the LORD. We need to be careful not to make judgement to quickly, and we need to not assume everything right away, and that why it's written it says test everything with carefulness, and it even say let love be without hypocrissy.

​

Unfortunately the worldly "Christian" has no evidence to stand on that he is born of God. This is why we must confront "worldly Christians" about their sin, as James wrote "he who converts a sinner from the error of his way shall save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."

When Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 3 about worldliness of people in the church (carnal/fleshly), he warned them that they must repent of their worldliness, or else they will not inherit the kingdom of heaven (not see salvation). We see this in ch. 6 of that epistle. It is definitely a warning. This warning gives true believers the discernment of themselves, not to be deceived by those who would persuade the elect to practice sin. But the deceivers are deceived themselves, so they won't listen to the warning. It is the same warning as "be not deceived, God is not mocked; whatever a person sows, that will they reap..." The spiritual wisdom he writes will be heeded by every true believer, but the "worldly Christian" won't listen. The true believer walks in faith to the delivering power of Christ. But the false "believer" will be like the man who built his house on the sand, etc.

So then, understand the conflict. There is contention with worldly "Christians" because they love their sin more than they love God. The conflict is within them, within their guilty conscience. Their motive for contending with the righteous is to confuse themselves, that they may think they have an excuse to continue without repentance. Therefore, if we love them the same way Christ loves us (which includes the rebuke of sinful attitudes in addition to edifying them by the word of God), then that will give them both the opportunity and motive (by the Spirit) to repent and be restored to life. Thus John writes in 1 Jn. 5:16 "if anyone sees a brother commit a sin not leading to death, he should pray, and God will give him life..." This is equivalent to Paul's writing in Gal. 6 "if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently." We must be familiar enough with the scripture to be able to quote it (or at least paraphrase it) in those times.
TD

 

[ezrider]

i dont think he hated any one..he gave Judas a chance hate is not his nature love is

That would be correct. Jesus hates no one and died for all.

Loving our enemies is not ad easy as it sounds. My spirit will say love them, but my flesh will say deck them (lol).

I think in order to love our enemies that spirit and flesh must be in agreement.

I'm working on that, but I can't do it yet. I'm gettin pretty good at forgiving, but thats after the fact...

We were created in the image and likeness of God. God loves and God hates, for it is written Jacob have I loved and Esau I have hated. God is a jealous God. He get angry, he seeks vengeance. He sets himself a stone that is both a cornerstone and a stumbling block. To the spiritual who walk according to faith he is the chief cornerstone. But to those walk according to the knowledge of sin he is a stumbling block.

 

[Edward]

We were created in the image and likeness of God. God loves and God hates, for it is written Jacob have I loved and Esau I have hated. God is a jealous God. He get angry, he seeks vengeance. He sets himself a stone that is both a cornerstone and a stumbling block. To the spiritual who walk according to faith he is the chief cornerstone. But to those walk according to the knowledge of sin he is a stumbling block.

Thanks, Brother. That made me feel better. .

 

[Razeontherock]

Loving our enemies is not ad easy as it sounds. My spirit will say love them, but my flesh will say deck them (lol).

I think in order to love our enemies that spirit and flesh must be in agreement.

I'm working on that, but I can't do it yet. I'm gettin pretty good at forgiving, but thats after the fact...

What about the soul? What about the heart? What about the mind? Is the heart and mind all part of the soul?
However you look at it, loving to deck people is not the ideal combination, lol

If 2 out of three of our components (spirit soul body) agree, the other one is probably going to lose. So if our Spirit's good, (born again) getting our body in line should be a question of renewing our mind. Or, if our body is good, getting our soul/emotions in line should be a snap.
It's when both emotions/soul/mind AND body are out of whack that it's such a struggle to follow the Spirit.

 

[Northman]

I've never studied that portion of Scripture but I do wonder if the translation is accurate in using the word "hate." Do other translations render it that way as well?

I suppose I either jumped ahead or simply ignored the legal in the literacy. It was apparent by context that the guy was saying that Jesus hated what the pharisees were doing. As Raze has already pointed out Proverbs 6:16, we know from scripture that Jesus did indeed have hate, distaste, or whatever word you want to use for describing what the pharisees were doing to fill that list in proverbs.

I would expect a poster with this understanding to also understand the rest of scripture to know that God gives each and every one a chance, right up til death.

 

[Northman]

Loving our enemies is not ad easy as it sounds. My spirit will say love them, but my flesh will say deck them (lol).

I think in order to love our enemies that spirit and flesh must be in agreement.

I'm working on that, but I can't do it yet. I'm gettin pretty good at forgiving, but thats after the fact...

You know I was just thinking along the same sort of lines. Pondering what is actually what. I think that when the time comes(judgement day) what we do will be judged according to God's definitions and leave most of us surprised. I truly think that loves means more action than anything else and He is going to tell us we loved in a situation when we think we didn't. You know, those situations where our spirit follows his Spirit and we drag the flesh along kicking and screaming. We may not totally feel too well about what we did but He will judge our action as one of love and approve. Does that make sense?

 

[jasonc]

It is a troubling passage. My best research indicates it's the same hatred as for sin (comparing Malachi 1:3 with Proverbs 6:16)

Also in the NT it's miseo, sounds like the root for to make miserable and carries that connotation.

it means to love less