Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

[_ Old Earth _] YEC Creationism Causes Atheism

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

It's a rather good story. It even made the "Answers in Genesis" list of "arguments we think creationists should not use."
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/03/31/darwins-deathbed-conversion-legend

Personally, I hope he did return to Christian belief, but since his family says that he didn't, and since they claim this lady never met with him, I suspect He didn't.


I would be interested in reading something that would support what his family said.

James Moore and Malcolm Bowden have both written books chronicling this conversion.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

I would be interested in reading something that would support what his family said.

James Moore and Malcolm Bowden have both written books chronicling this conversion.
Henrietta Darwin (Darwin's daughter) firmly denied the story told by Lady Hope. Her denial can be found in Mrs R B Litchfield, "Charles Darwin's Death-Bed: Story of Conversion Denied," The Christian, February 23, 1922, p. 12.

Darwin's son, Sir Francis Darwin, also denied the story:


"Lady Hope's account of my father's views on religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but have not seen any reply. My father's agnostic point of view is given in my Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. I., pp. 304-317. You are at liberty to publish the above statement. Indeed, I shall be glad if you will do so. Yours faithfully, Francis Darwin. Brookthorpe, Gloucester. May 28, 1918."

Source: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/ladyhope.html#Autobiography
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

I don't know why anybody should care if he converted or not.

The damage he did is irreparable, and will cost very many any hope of salvation, by turning them to atheism.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

I don't know why anybody should care if he converted or not.

Because God is unwilling that any should be lost. If we claim to follow Him, we should care.

The damage he did is irreparable, and will cost very many any hope of salvation, by turning them to atheism.

As you learned, it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker:

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Because God is unwilling that any should be lost. If we claim to follow Him, we should care.

Why should we? He is dead, and his deeds await the Day of Judgement.

No amount of our caring can alter anything now.
As you learned,

You're back to this damned nonsense again. It is a lie, because I have 'learned' nothing of the kind. Now stop this lying and misrepresenting debating tactic.

it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker:

So we have one such weak-minded person nearly becoming atheist.
How big is that!

YE began relatively recently. Darwin wrote in the mid-1800's. How many atheists has he created I wonder. How many lives have been lost because of Hitler and henchmen embracing social darwinism?

And yet you can talk such nonsense?

No, I can't see any reason to care. The judgment is set. Many little ones have been caused to stumble, and a millstone round the neck awaits.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Because God is unwilling that any should be lost. If we claim to follow Him, we should care.



As you learned, it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker:

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm


:topictotopic
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Barbarian said:
As you learned, it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker:

Umm... not really. Most Athiests use the Old Earth argument to prove the Bible as myth.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Why should we? He is dead, and his deeds await the Day of Judgement.

No amount of our caring can alter anything now.
As you learned,

If God is unwilling that any be lost, then we should be too. If you want to be an imitation of Christ, you should share His values.

You're back to this damned nonsense again. It is a lie, because I have 'learned' nothing of the kind.

You've already seen the testimony of a man whose young Earth beliefs nearly wrecked his faith, and he documents others who were not so lucky. C'mon.

it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker.

Darwin wrote in the mid-1800's. How many atheists has he created I wonder.

Given that he suggested God and nature were not at odds, I'd say very few, if any.

How many lives were lost because of Hitler and henchmen embracing social darwinism?

None at all. Unless you want to call things Darwin and his followers rejected as "Darwinism." As you learned, Darwin wrote that to even let the weakest humans die would be an "overwhelming evil", and Darwinists like Morgan and Punnett pointed out that the racial theories of eugenicists were as scientifically unsound as they were morally objectionable.

And yet you can talk such nonsense?

You saw all this once. Do I have to remind you with the facts, again?

As you see, YE creationism will have much to answer for at judgement.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

If God is unwilling that any be lost, then we should be too. If you want to be an imitation of Christ, you should share His values.

I do.

He says very clearly that whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he be cast into the depths of the sea.

Darwin has a lot to answer for.

You've already seen the testimony of a man whose young Earth beliefs nearly wrecked his faith, and he documents others who were not so lucky. C'mon.
He was a weakminded man. 'Strong in faith' means able to resist whatever may come against that faith.

The proper attitude is:

The very first principle of all is the 'God is'.

The second is: He made all things, no matter what anybody (including scientists, philosophers or whoever) may say.

Nothing can change those 2 facts, and to think of abandoning faith for whatever reason is weakminded, doubleminded and faithless.
it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker.
That is pure nonsense, and I think you know it.

Given that he suggested God and nature were not at odds, I'd say very few, if any.
His theory has resulted in all the things I pointed out in my previous post, and many more besides. He is accountable for its consequences, and will have to foot the bill when the time comes.

How big the bill will be is between him and God, and is not for us to say.

None at all. Unless you want to call things Darwin and his followers rejected as "Darwinism." As you learned, Darwin wrote that to even let the weakest humans die would be an "overwhelming evil", and Darwinists like Morgan and Punnett pointed out that the racial theories of eugenicists were as scientifically unsound as they were morally objectionable.
I believe the reason Wallace disowned the theory was because he could see exactly where it would lead.

Darwin, warned in advance, had written anxiously to Wallace, 'I hope you have not murdered too completely your own and my child.' Wallace never did abandon natural selection, but later generations came to find him an unfit parent. He did not conform to the pattern of the modern scientist, who, on seeing the evolutionary light, was supposed to shed any illusion about the supernatural. Wallace attempted to reconcile the two, and his reputation suffered accordingly."
http://creationwiki.org/Alfred_Russel_Wallace

He abandoned the fame and glory it would have brought him - but Darwin wouldn't pay that price. Now no amount of furious back-pedalling on the part of evolutionists of every stripe (and that includes him and you) can negate the consequences of the theory.

They are inexorable and unstoppable to anyone with a logical mind who accepts it.

Yes, there are disclaimers, but they are merely futile efforts to deflect the logic which is, as I say, inexorable and unstoppable.

As you see, YE creationism will have much to answer for at judgement.
Not half as much as Darwin and his miserable band of destructive followers. Just look at Dawkins in our time. How many atheists has he created, or supported in their atheism? Too many to count, I'm certain. And you dare to think that YE can begin to compare with this rabble?

I very much doubt it.

The problem here is that I am positive that you can see the logical consequences of evolution belief. And you are doing your level best to minimise the damage to your conscience that it inevitably causes.

Damage that arises from the conflict between your catholicism and your scientific inclinations.

Why not give evolution up? You cannot serve two masters.

Jesus says so.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Henrietta Darwin (Darwin's daughter) firmly denied the story told by Lady Hope. Her denial can be found in Mrs R B Litchfield, "Charles Darwin's Death-Bed: Story of Conversion Denied," The Christian, February 23, 1922, p. 12.@#$%

Darwin's son, Sir Francis Darwin, also denied the story:


"Lady Hope's account of my father's views on religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but have not seen any reply. My father's agnostic point of view is given in my Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. I., pp. 304-317. You are at liberty to publish the above statement. Indeed, I shall be glad if you will do so. Yours faithfully, Francis Darwin. Brookthorpe, Gloucester. May 28, 1918."

Source: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/ladyhope.html#Autobiography


Well they could be telling the truth in the sense that they didn't know, as could Lady Hope. The following article seems very well analyzed as far as I can tell.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

THE
If God is unwilling that any be lost, then we should be too. If you want to be an imitation of Christ, you should share His values.



You've already seen the testimony of a man whose young Earth beliefs nearly wrecked his faith, and he documents others who were not so lucky. C'mon.

it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker.



Given that he suggested God and nature were not at odds, I'd say very few, if any.



None at all. Unless you want to call things Darwin and his followers rejected as "Darwinism." As you learned, Darwin wrote that to even let the weakest humans die would be an "overwhelming evil", and Darwinists like Morgan and Punnett pointed out that the racial theories of eugenicists were as scientifically unsound as they were morally objectionable.



You saw all this once. Do I have to remind you with the facts, again?

As you see, YE creationism will have much to answer for at judgement.

I used to at least be tolerable of your idea's and at least check them for merit, And try to be respectful about them even when thinking about them. But this is over the top.I try to be nice about things and nicely agree with a cool easy conversation to keep weapons and shields down. But this is too much, YOUR STORY DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE CROWD. I realize how weak faith could bring you to the verge of atheism when you see some of the things that would retract you from YE when you believed that was the only christian belief. But please don't try to act like this is far worse Christian genocide than DARWINISM! Reguardless of whether he was an atheist himself or not. It dosn't matter. The man was not so stupid that he did not realize where his theories would lead. The christian consequences from Evolution are FAAAARRRRR greater than what YEC could EVER be responsible for. The idea that YEC is the ultimate atheist creator is absolutely ridiculous and I think you know it. You merely use the fact that YEC can create atheist as an argument. But so can everything. Sin can cause atheism, YEC can and so can other things. But NOT AS MUCH AS EVOLUTION. Evolution has cost us Millions upon Millions upon Millions of souls. So please do not try to say

"YE is the ultimate atheist creator"
" YE has alot to answer for at judgement"

Im afraid that Evolution, Darwinism and Darwin have FAR more to answer for. But anyway, We need to put this If we do another post on this topic I will create another thread or move it to an old thread for the sake of the OP Reguardless of your views, YEC or OEC, It is irrational to argue that YE is responsible for more losses than OE, And OEC's dont be offended because I said OE not OEC. Out of courtesy for you guys.

:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic:topictotopic
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

You've already seen the testimony of a man whose young Earth beliefs nearly wrecked his faith, and he documents others who were not so lucky. C'mon.
it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker.


Sorry I missed this. Was it a link or a cut and past? Can you supply the link if it exists?

FYI, all of the ATHEISTS I have EVER spoken to had no care what-so-ever about YEC, because they don't believe in God or a god, so why would they even care
about how the earth came to be?
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Glenn Morton is a former YE creationist, a graduate of the Institute for Creation Research's graduate school of geology.

His crisis of faith came about when he went to work for an oil company and...

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm

Glenn's been there, and has seen what YE does to people.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Glenn Morton is a former YE creationist, a graduate of the Institute for Creation Research's graduate school of geology.

His crisis of faith came about when he went to work for an oil company and...

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm

Glenn's been there, and has seen what YE does to people.

First I would like to say that I am sorry about the way I put the last message. I meant to come back and clear things up before but i was not able to get back here. I apologize for the way I said it. I try to avoid it. But even though I cant erase the statement I do apologize. Now, Back to the reply. One bad experience with YEC does not speak for the crowd. OE (Not directed to you OEC people out there that don't day "YEC is responsible for the atheism in the world.") has caused FAR more damage to christianity than YEC could dream of. Yes, One person on the week side of faith could be destroyed in their Christianity when they hear "All them Young Earth Creationist tell ya the same thing!" And only Young Earth Creationist can be Christians! There is no other way! If you actually have any care or thought about your faith you will go on further than just saying, Well they said Young Earth Creationism is the only way to Christianity, And based on what they have told me all of the Young Earth Creationist say they must be wrong. Its a stereotype, You cant describe a persons entire view on the creation of the world and how it relates to the modern world by simply, YEC or something else. There was a nice discussion on that in another thread if you care to read thats still open in general talk. The fact that you can just drop the faith based on some things in the YE view that you may find or be told is not true does not mean you will always lose Christianity when it happens. If you care anything about your faith you will look for ways to maintain its power in your life. So I doubt that ever causes many Christian losses. But Darwinism has had a MASSIVE effect. Reguardless of if this was what he was trying to do when he launched the theory or not. He knew where it ends up. Where did it end up? Now Physicist, Biologist and more are almost all atheist parties, (Ocassional Christians) but why? Something didn't just come out of thin air. It was as a result of his theory. Whether you believe in YEC or OEC, This is not an attack on OEC. I am just clarifying that YEC is not the cause of majority atheism in this world. Now I am going to move these post, (Or perhaps I will request Free to do it.) into a new thread.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Glenn Morton is a former YE creationist, a graduate of the Institute for Creation Research's graduate school of geology.

His crisis of faith came about when he went to work for an oil company and...

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm

Glenn's been there, and has seen what YE does to people.

Mr. Morton is a typical example of someone who doesn't believe based on FAITH. He wants proof. He isn't a TYPICAL example of a YEC person, just a rare example of someone who couldn't commit to God's word.
Out of 82 graduates of ICRGS there are a few that have been mentioned in their profiles.
John Rajca
Bill Hoesch
Debbie Brooks
Art Manning
Dave Jolly
Jaemon Lee
Richard Overman
Dave and Mary Jo Nutting
Paul Anders
Chris Osborne
Scott Rugg
Dr. John Whitmore
Lindy Lu Swanson
Pierre Willems
It appears a lot more than ONE person, just decided NOT to respond to Glenn Morton's question. They obviously knew what his ultimate intention was.
One person's lack of faith in God's literal Word, does NOT a consensus make.

Here is a comment on Glenn Morton's views.
Now can we please get BACK ON TOPIC?
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Mr. Morton is a typical example of someone who doesn't believe based on FAITH.

He still believes, based on faith. His faith was strong enough that he didn't need the assistance of YE fables.

He wants proof. He isn't a TYPICAL example of a YEC person, just a rare example of someone who couldn't commit to God's word.

YE creationism is man's word, intended to make God's word more acceptable.

The fact that so many have lost their faith due to YE creationism should concern you. YE will have much to answer for at judgement.
 
Back
Top