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[_ Old Earth _] YEC Creationism Causes Atheism

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Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Mr. Morton is a typical example of someone who doesn't believe
Now can we please get BACK ON TOPIC?

Yep I said I am going to move the post away, Or just ask free too. Because the thread is getting derailed.
 
First I would like to say that I am sorry about the way I put the last message. I meant to come back and clear things up before but i was not able to get back here.

No offense taken.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

He still believes, based on faith. His faith was strong enough that he didn't need the assistance of YE fables.



YE creationism is man's word, intended to make God's word more acceptable.

The fact that so many have lost their faith due to YE creationism should concern you. YE will have much to answer for at judgement.

You need to make these comments on the appropriate thread...NOT this one.
 
I do.

He says very clearly that whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he be cast into the depths of the sea.

Darwin has a lot to answer for.

His agnosticism, for one thing. But obviously, a man who writes that God created living things is not leading others astray.

Barbarian observes:
You've already seen the testimony of a man whose young Earth beliefs nearly wrecked his faith, and he documents others who were not so lucky. C'mon.

He was a weakminded man. 'Strong in faith' means able to resist whatever may come against that faith.

He was taught a false doctrine and that nearly wrecked his faith.

he proper attitude is:

it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker.

That is pure nonsense, and I think you know it.

Comes down to evidence. You lose.

Barbarian observes:
None at all. Unless you want to call things Darwin and his followers rejected as "Darwinism." As you learned, Darwin wrote that to even let the weakest humans die would be an "overwhelming evil", and Darwinists like Morgan and Punnett pointed out that the racial theories of eugenicists were as scientifically unsound as they were morally objectionable.

I believe the reason Wallace disowned the theory was because he could see exactly where it would lead.

Wallace never was a eugenist. Like Darwin, he rejected it.

Barbarian observes:
As you see, YE creationism will have much to answer for at judgement.

Not half as much as Darwin and his miserable band of destructive followers. Just look at Dawkins in our time. How many atheists has he created, or supported in their atheism?

Many scientists, both Christian and not, would laugh at that silly idea. Even an atheist like George G. Simpson wrote that the existence of God cannot be determined by science, nor can science reject the idea of God.

The problem here is that I am positive that you can see the logical consequences of evolution belief. And you are doing your level best to minimise the damage to your conscience that it inevitably causes.

Funny how people like that always think it's the other guy, um?

Damage that arises from the conflict between your catholicism and your scientific inclinations.

As you learned, most of the world's Christians, Catholics included, see no conflict between God and evolution.

Why not give evolution up? You cannot serve two masters.

You might as well ask me to give plumbing up. How silly of you.

Jesus says so.

It's O.K. to accept evolution. You can have indoor plumbing, too, if you like.

Just don't worship it. Notice there's another thread for your misconceptions about science. This one is about someone's claim that Darwin became a Christian on his deathbed. I hope so, but I suspect not.

The testimony of his family and the fact that the lady making the claim did not seem to have actually visited with Darwin, tends to cast doubt on it.
 
I avoid the Old Earth and Yong Earth debates because to me they are the same just one is more tolerable then the other.

At least the old earthers don't run around yelling "darwinism!!!!" and at least understand the basics of evolutionary theory.

I don't care about Darwin's "conversion" stories. To me it dosen't change whether or not his theory holds up. Personally I think anyone who really gets to hung up on this argument to be really petty and don't care about what the theory of evolution actually says.


The theory of Evolution is that organisms adapt adapt to their surroundings and species are formed by this process. That is it. Why this is such a hullabaloo for Christians is beyond me. Its like heliocentric. I highly doubt anyone here will scream at another Christian for believing the Earth rotates around the sun. Yet a few hundred years ago, this would have been the case. Same thing with Flat earth. Now we laugh at the idea that people at one time thought that, but they did. Both of these arguments of biblical basis but the majority of us understand that that the earth is spherical and not fixed.

I think eventually Evolution will stop being such a hot topic. Then maybe we wouldn't have so many threads floating around with people copy pasting Answers in genesis articles and blogs about nonsense like "Darwin's Conversion".
 
He says very clearly that whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he be cast into the depths of the sea.

Darwin has a lot to answer for.

His book says God created the first living things. That seems like a good thing to me.

You've already seen the testimony of a man whose young Earth beliefs nearly wrecked his faith, and he documents others who were not so lucky. C'mon.

He was a weakminded man.

He was willing to follow the truth wherever it led. That is what a Christian should do. He was merely misled as to what Christianity is about.

it is YE creationism that is the great atheist-maker.

That is pure nonsense, and I think you know it.

I'm very sure you now realize it's not.

Given that he suggested God and nature were not at odds, I'd say very few, if any.

His theory has resulted in all the things I pointed out in my previous post,

None at all. Unless you want to call things Darwin and his followers rejected as "Darwinism." As you learned, Darwin wrote that to even let the weakest humans die would be an "overwhelming evil", and Darwinists like Morgan and Punnett pointed out that the racial theories of eugenicists were as scientifically unsound as they were morally objectionable.

He did not conform to the pattern of the modern scientist, who, on seeing the evolutionary light, was supposed to shed any illusion about the supernatural. Wallace attempted to reconcile the two, and his reputation suffered accordingly."
http://creationwiki.org/Alfred_Russel_Wallace

That would surprise the millions of scientists who accept evolution as God's creation. You've been led down the path again.

Barbarian observes:
As you see, YE creationism will have much to answer for at judgement.

The problem here is that I am positive that you can see the logical consequences of YE belief. And you are doing your level best to minimise the damage to your conscience that it inevitably causes.

Why not give evolution up? You cannot serve two masters.

You might as well ask me to give plumbing up. You've confused science and faith, again.

BTW, it's O.K. to have indoor plumbing if you like, just as it's O.K. to approve of God's creation.
 
I avoid the Old Earth and Yong Earth debates because to me they are the same just one is more tolerable then the other.

At least the old earthers don't run around yelling "darwinism!!!!" and at least understand the basics of evolutionary theory.

I don't care about Darwin's "conversion" stories. To me it dosen't change whether or not his theory holds up. Personally I think anyone who really gets to hung up on this argument to be really petty and don't care about what the theory of evolution actually says.


The theory of Evolution is that organisms adapt adapt to their surroundings and species are formed by this process. That is it. Why this is such a hullabaloo for Christians is beyond me. Its like heliocentric. I highly doubt anyone here will scream at another Christian for believing the Earth rotates around the sun. Yet a few hundred years ago, this would have been the case. Same thing with Flat earth. Now we laugh at the idea that people at one time thought that, but they did. Both of these arguments of biblical basis but the majority of us understand that that the earth is spherical and not fixed.

I think eventually Evolution will stop being such a hot topic. Then maybe we wouldn't have so many threads floating around with people copy pasting Answers in genesis articles and blogs about nonsense like "Darwin's Conversion".

Yeah, I wasn't really aiming for the OE people in particular. Just making clear that YE is NOT what causes the atheism. Because reguardless of if it can or not. AT THE CURRENT TIME Darwinism takes more responsibility. But I am finding as for is responsible for all of this. Its really just a "Who first" conversation. Whoever was first on the Christian scene is not the culprit. The next guy is the one who is ruining it. Even if it shouldn't cause you to convert. (I know you are atheist by the way, Or to the best of my knowledge.) But reguardless. Even if it shouldn't cause you to convert it does. So its still responsible for it. Anyway, I'm finding this argument is going to a dead end. That or a never ending argument between Zeke and Barb. So I probably won't be involved in this any further. Later guys.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

I think the best that can be said is that no one knows for sure. The Lady Hope story on the face of it seems to lack convincing credibility.

Hey yeah sorry Nick locked the Original Darwin thread. (By misunderstanding?) So please start another thread again on the topic and continue it there. I know this is the only place where the original discussion was left but there was a misunderstanding. So please continue the Darwin Deathbed discussion in the new thread. Though it seems you were closing your convo, But just need to be sure! Thanks.
 
Yeah, I wasn't really aiming for the OE people in particular. Just making clear that YE is NOT what causes atheism
I would tend to agree. Atheism is caused by several things. YE could be one of several factors.
AT THE CURRENT TIME Darwinism takes more responsibility.
I doubt it since darwinism is a made up ism that is used as an umbrella term by Christians for people that don't agree with some creation models. That seems to be it.
But I am finding as for is responsible for all of this. Its really just a "Who first" conversation. Whoever was first on the Christian scene is not the culprit. The next guy is the one who is ruining it. Even if it shouldn't cause you to convert. (I know you are atheist by the way, Or to the best of my knowledge.)
agnostic for the most part.
But reguardless. Even if it shouldn't cause you to convert it does. So its still responsible for it. Anyway, I'm finding this argument is going to a dead end. That or a never ending argument between Zeke and Barb. So I probably won't be involved in this any further. Later guys.
Talk to you later hopefully.
 
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Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

I think the best that can be said is that no one knows for sure. The Lady Hope story on the face of it seems to lack convincing credibility.


It may lack concrete proof or substantiation, but it doesn't lack credibility unless of course you are predisposed to NOT believe it.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

It may lack concrete proof or substantiation, but it doesn't lack credibility unless of course you are predisposed to NOT believe it.
Well, it lacks credibility on a number of levels, beginning with whether she visited him in the supposed timeframe. Darwin's children are adamant that her story is inaccurate. Why would you be predisposed to believe her version of events rather than theirs?
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Well, it lacks credibility on a number of levels, beginning with whether she visited him in the supposed timeframe. Darwin's children are adamant that her story is inaccurate. Why would you be predisposed to believe her version of events rather than theirs?

If you read ALL the accounts, Darwin's children deny his conversion, but her visits were established as being in fact true.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

This may be iteresting to some. Enjoy it

To those who disagree, tell it to someone who cares.

http://carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/did-darwin-become-christian-his-deathbed

Here is a good read for you stan with Darwin.
http://creation.com/darwins-arguments-against-god

You can't please God without faith if you can't believe without jumping on the side of the bandwagon, I guess that is not faith. By the way it's still not blind faith, I pray before studying anything and only thing God has pointed to me in his evidence he declares in Romans 1:18-22 is what he said in Genesis.
 
Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

Here is a good read for you stan with Darwin.
http://creation.com/darwins-arguments-against-god

You can't please God without faith if you can't believe without jumping on the side of the bandwagon, I guess that is not faith. By the way it's still not blind faith, I pray before studying anything and only thing God has pointed to me in his evidence he declares in Romans 1:18-22 is what he said in Genesis.

OK I read it...what exactly are you trying to tell me or say?
I already knew Darwin was out to lunch when trying to eisegese scripture, based on his personal beliefs. My view has not changed. He was a sad, confused and somewhat focused man.
 
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Of course the foolishness of those church people who stone wall against actual scientific evidence that the atheists like Bill Maher and the College professors use to ridiculethe Bible channel young people away for religion.

When the Bible people insist thattheir interpretation actually makes sense in spite of direct evidence from science to the contrary, and they will not allow Theistic Evolution to explain the Bible in a compatibility with Science, they direct the next generation away from the churches.
 
Of course the foolishness of those church people who stone wall against actual scientific evidence that the atheists like Bill Maher and the College professors use to ridicule the Bible channel young people away for religion.

When the Bible people insist that their interpretation actually makes sense in spite of direct evidence from science to the contrary, and they will not allow Theistic Evolution to explain the Bible in a compatibility with Science, they direct the next generation away from the churches.

That is a complete and unsupportable assertion. The Bible says "No one can come to Jesus, except the Father draw Him"
The Christian Church is very used to being persecuted and NOT believed for MANY reasons. Evolution is just one, and it has been my actual experience that those who truly have faith and believe, will have NO problem reconciling their faith with ANYTHING the world teaches.
 
Hey guys, I had to make this thread to contain the YEC Creationism Causes Atheism discussion that was going on inside the Darwin Deathbed thread. I understand that by a simple misunderstanding that thread was locked but if you desire to continue talking about the Darwin conversion issue please create a new thread to replace the one locked.
 
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