[_ Old Earth _] YEC Creationism Causes Atheism

[Barbarian]

At the age of 65 i have seen/heard the facts of science change often..

Hey, I just turned 65 last week. Keeps on getting better, doesn't it? Thanks to God.

And yes, science is the process of changing a theory that's wrong, to one that's not as wrong. It's inductive, which means we look at the particulars and guess what the rules are. Darwin, for example, made some mistakes which were changed to make the modern theory conform to known facts.

Probably sounds like a faulty method, but very little humans can do, works better.

 

[lordkalvan]

Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

If you read ALL the accounts, Darwin's children deny his conversion, but her visits were established as being in fact true.

And yet Darwin's daughter Henrietta categorically denied Lady Hope's presence:

"I was present at his deathbed. Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A. . . . The whole story has no foundation whatever."

Quoted here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_cul4.htm

You think she would know.

 

[Stan53]

Hey, I just turned 65 last week. Keeps on getting better, doesn't it? Thanks to God.

And yes, science is the process of changing a theory that's wrong, to one that's not as wrong. It's inductive, which means we look at the particulars and guess what the rules are. Darwin, for example, made some mistakes which were changed to make the modern theory conform to known facts.

Probably sounds like a faulty method, but very little humans can do, works better.

I believe DEDUCTIVE reasoning and science works better.

 

[Ambrose]

Guys keep this on topic, If you are going to continue the Darwin discussion then please make a new thread for it. I made this thread so the people discussing it could continue the YEC causes atheism discussion. And the Darwin Deathbed guys would not be interrupted. That works vice versa. If you are going to discuss this topic make a new thread.

 

[Stan53]

Re: Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed.

And yet Darwin's daughter Henrietta categorically denied Lady Hope's presence:

"I was present at his deathbed. Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A. . . . The whole story has no foundation whatever."

Quoted here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_cul4.htm

You think she would know.

This is NOT surprising, based on the fact that she did edit the biographies of her grandfather, father and mother. She also edited her father's book, The Descent of Man.
Seems Etty was more concerned with maintaining the image rather than the truth.

 

[Stan53]

Guys keep this on topic, If you are going to continue the Darwin discussion then please make a new thread for it. I made this thread so the people discussing it could continue the YEC causes atheism discussion. And the Darwin Deathbed guys would not be interrupted. That works vice versa. If you are going to discuss this topic make a new thread.

It's barbarian who keeps trying to derail the topic. Maybe you can send him a PM?

 

[Ambrose]

It's barbarian who keeps trying to derail the topic. Maybe you can send him a PM?

I think you are misunderstanding because the original Darwin thread was originally locked. Let me explain. The Darwin Thread was going off topic. I said lets go back on topic or start a new thread for the YEC discussion and that didn't happen. So I copied the Darwin thread and merged into a new thread I created called "YEC Creationism Causes Atheism" To put it back on topic in the Darwin thread and allow the YEC discussion to continue. Later on Nick came through and tried to figure out what happened. There was a misunderstanding and he locked the original Darwin thread. So this was all that was left. But this looks like the old one and the original is gone so i think you are confusing this one for the Darwin Thread only renamed. But this was the new thread. So if you want to continue the Darwin discussion make a new thread on it to replace the one that was locked.

 

[Stan53]

I think you are misunderstanding because the original Darwin thread was originally locked. Let me explain. The Darwin Thread was going off topic. I said lets go back on topic or start a new thread for the YEC discussion and that didn't happen. So I copied the Darwin thread and merged into a new thread I created called "YEC Creationism Causes Atheism" To put it back on topic in the Darwin thread and allow the YEC discussion to continue. Later on Nick came through and tried to figure out what happened. There was a misunderstanding and he locked the original Darwin thread. So this was all that was left. But this looks like the old one and the original is gone so i think you are confusing this one for the Darwin Thread only renamed. But this was the new thread. So if you want to continue the Darwin discussion make a new thread on it to replace the one that was locked.

Well the OP is about Darwin so yes I'm confused. How did this get so screwed up?

 

[Ambrose]

Well the OP is about Darwin so yes I'm confused. How did this get so screwed up?

Well the OP only says that because when I merged the threads it deleted the original OP I posted. This was just a copy of the Darwin thread that got merged with this one in order to keep the original Darwin thread on topic while continuing the YEC discussion.

 

[Stan53]

Well the OP only says that because when I merged the threads it deleted the original OP I posted. This was just a copy of the Darwin thread that got merged with this one in order to keep the original Darwin thread on topic while continuing the YEC discussion.

Now I'm more confused. I think I'll just unsubscribe now...way to complicated for my little brain.

 

[Ambrose]

Now I'm more confused. I think I'll just unsubscribe now...way to complicated for my little brain.

here we will just leave it at this. This isn't the Darwin thread. The Darwin Thread is gone by accident. If you want to continue the Darwin discussion just make a new thread to replace it.

 

[Grazer]

My idea of a Christian was the Young Earth Creationists, and now I was meeting people who not only were converts to Russian Orthodoxy and math majors, but they thought the beauty of mathematics was evidence for God. - Leah Libresco

Leah converted to Christianity and cites one of her objections to Christianity as the stance taken by Young Earth Creationists. Her full story can be read at the below link (hope its ok to post this link)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unequallyyoked/my-burden-of-proof

 

[lordkalvan]

Darwin/Lady Hope discussion moved here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=43409

 

[Barbarian]

There are enough obstacles in the way of coming to God without men inventing new ones. Demanding that people must believe additional things, just puts them off and interferes with God's intent.

My idea of a Christian was the Young Earth Creationists, and now I was meeting people who not only were converts to Russian Orthodoxy and math majors, but they thought the beauty of mathematics was evidence for God. - Leah Libresco

I see that daily in my work. On a good day, I'm stunned by the majesty of a God Who could create a universe in which such amazing things can come about.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

 

[cupid dave]

At the age of 65 i have seen/heard the facts of science change often..

The Facts do not change.

What you have noticed is that in applying the empirical facts that we are certain of, the story scientists created from those facts often draw the wrong conclusions from them.

For Instance, Ptolemy had the right facts about the planetary movements around the Sun, but he developed a complex "theory" using those facts, which was wrong, because he assumed that the planets and Sun all revolved around the Earth.

Until Galileo added another few facts, Ptolemy could not be shown to be wrong.


The reason we can say thatthe facts do not change, today, is because the Scientific Method requires a controlled experiment that allows anyone to see or observe the exact same things.

 

[cupid dave]

That is a complete and unsupportable assertion. The Bible says "No one can come to Jesus, except the Father draw Him"
The Christian Church is very used to being persecuted and NOT believed for MANY reasons. Evolution is just one, and it has been my actual experience that those who truly have faith and believe, will have NO problem reconciling their faith with ANYTHING the world teaches.

Isn't you thinking here exactly what the Popes believed when Galileo and Descartes, and Copernicus, et al, tried to correct the Church, and the authoritarian attitude split it into two, Protestantism now = 50% of all Christians?




Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold,... (the golden spiritual insights of the irrepressible idea of psychic Consciousness emerging from scripture)... tried in the fire... (of time),... that thou mayest be rich... (in continued church leadership); and (re-interpret upon) white (yet unwritten, new pages), raiment,... (of revised books of your evermore obvious misinterpretations), ...that thou mayest be clothed... (and protected in thine thinking with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), ...and that the shame... (as visited in Geocentricism, in Creationism, in literal world-wide floods, etc) ... of thy nakedness... (of your unsupportable intuitive irrationalities) ...do not appear... (and confront you); ...and anoint thine eyes... (awaken!)... with (the) eyesalve... (ofreality!), ...that thou mayest see... (socio-psychologically).