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YHVH & The Qur'an

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#1
If Allah is simply another name for the God of the Bible (Jehovah), did the Triune God reveal the Qur'an to Muhammad?

If He did:
Why would God inspire a text devoted to denying the Trinity, Christ's divinity, and the assurance of salvation in the faith of Yeshua?

If He didn't:
Why should we trust a text that was not inspired by God as to the nature of who God is?
 
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#2
If Allah is simply another name for the God of the Bible (Jehovah), did the Triune God reveal the Qur'an to Muhammad?

If He did:
Why would God inspire a text devoted to denying the Trinity, Christ's divinity, and the assurance of salvation in the faith of Yeshua?

If He didn't:
Why should we trust a text that was not inspired by God as to the nature of who God is?
The Qu'ran was revealed to Mohammad by an angel; either Gabriel:bounce or Satan:onfire; you choose. Or... Mohammad just made it up as he went along like an illiterate Joseph Smith.

Ask a Jew if God is triune. Yet we accept that their God, though their knowledge of God is incomplete, is the same as ours. Islam wants to be of the God of Israel, yet nearly everything 'revealed' of God in the Qu'ran is wrong. After all, Satan is the greatest deceiver. So while Muslims desire to worship a God they do not know, they do it badly, very badly, just as Satan intended. Yet the Gospel is still available to them.
 
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#3
If Allah is simply another name for the God of the Bible (Jehovah), did the Triune God reveal the Qur'an to Muhammad?

If He did:
Why would God inspire a text devoted to denying the Trinity, Christ's divinity, and the assurance of salvation in the faith of Yeshua?

If He didn't:
Why should we trust a text that was not inspired by God as to the nature of who God is?
They would argue that it's our Bible that's in error, even though they are told in their own Koran to respect it:

Sura 32:23 "We did indeed aforetime give the book to Moses. Be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee): and We made it a guide to the children of Israel."

However, as I posted in another thread, Islam has this little problem:

Allah is powerful enough to prevent his holy word from corruption?
Allah's not even powerful enough to keep Satan from corrupting the Koran.

When the inhabitants of Mecca heard Muhammad's confess the importance of the ancient goddesses inside the Ka'aba, they immediately revoked their ban on him. Those who had immigrated to Abyssinia (Ethiopia) started to return home after hearing Muhammad's confession and his acceptance in Mecca. But when they arrived, they were shocked to hear that Muhammad had retracted his confession and admitted that he had fallen prey to the whispering of Satan. Thus, today Islam considers Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22 are related to the time when Muhammad spoke the the Satanic Verses. Salman Rushdie did not invent the Satanic verses.4


In Sura Hajj (Pilgrimage) 22:52-53, Muhammad confessed his mistake, alleging that all prophets were tempted by Satan who inspire them with demonic verses, as if they were actually revealed by God. But later on Allah abrogated those Satanic Verses with new revelations and instructs his prophets with new verses. According to Islam, Allah permits such demonic inspiration to test weak believers and to cut off those with hardened hearts.
Of course this begs the question, "If Satan was allowed to corrupt some of the Koran, why not most if not all of it?"

How could anyone place their faith in a "god" who allowed his word to be corrupted by Satan?

:chin
 
K

kidcanman

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#4
If Allah is simply another name for the God of the Bible (Jehovah), did the Triune God reveal the Qur'an to Muhammad?

If He did:
Why would God inspire a text devoted to denying the Trinity, Christ's divinity, and the assurance of salvation in the faith of Yeshua?

If He didn't:
Why should we trust a text that was not inspired by God as to the nature of who God is?
Allah is not "another name for the God of the Bible". Allah is an abstract term used to denote the one true god of the universe. We Muslims have no reason to believe in the "God of the Bible". The Gospel and the Torah mentioned in the Quran are referring to the original revelations, not the O&NT. The current Bible was not canonized until centuries after the Prophet died. When Allah says, "Ask those who have been reading the Book before you", Allah is referring to the original Book. Not the Book that was canonized centuries later. Many Muslims believe that the O&NT have remnants of the original revelations but really there is nothing from the Quran to support that idea.


Muslims don't claim that the Quran was inspired by a "Triune" god. That is why the Quran denies the trinity, a divine Christ etc. (the Quran is not "devoted" to these topics).

You should trust the text because your statement that the text is not inspired by god is false.
 
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#5
The current Bible was not canonized until centuries after the Prophet died.
Patently untrue.

The first council that accepted the present Catholic canon (the Canon of Trent) may have been the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa (AD 393); the acts of this council, however, are lost. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the Councils of Carthage in 397 and 419.[24] These councils were under the authority of St. Augustine, who regarded the canon as already closed.[25] Pope Damasus I's Council of Rome in 382, if the Decretum Gelasianum is correctly associated with it, issued a biblical canon identical to that mentioned above,[22] or if not the list is at least a 6th century compilation.[26] Likewise, Damasus' commissioning of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, c. 383, was instrumental in the fixation of the canon in the West.[27] In 405, Pope Innocent I sent a list of the sacred books to a Gallic bishop, Exsuperius of Toulouse. When these bishops and councils spoke on the matter, however, they were not defining something new, but instead "were ratifying what had already become the mind of the Church."[28] Thus, from the 4th century, there existed unanimity in the West concerning the New Testament canon (as it is today),[29] and by the 5th century the East, with a few exceptions, had come to accept the Book of Revelation and thus had come into harmony on the matter of the New Testament canon.[30]
In other words, the latest the New Testament would have been canonized is the 5th century AD: at least 100 years before Mohammed was born! And the Old Testament was canonized by the Jews in the form of the Septuagint almost 600 years before the New!

And when was Mohammed born?

570 AD.

The canon of the New Testament, then, predates the Koran by at least 200 years! And the Old Testament predates the Koran by hundreds of years!

Furthermore, as Mohammed had Christian friends, it's likely that he would have known of the Old and New Testaments and borrowed language and symbolism from them, making the Koran - at the very least - an inept adaptation of holier works written centuries before!

Here is the part of the "birth of Islam" Muslims don't want people to know:

Although much of the Mecca and Medina region were pagan worshippers, Mohammed was drawn to the God of the Bible, Yahweh. Becoming increasingly obsessed with religious belief, he began to spend much of his time alone in a cave. At the age of 40, no coincidence to the obsession the Bible has with this number, a remarkable course of events (if you believe it) takes place.

The story, undoubtedly borrows its mythology from the Moses narrative, tells of a cloud descending upon his mountain. The voice of an angel summons him to wake, “Read!” Muhammad rubbed his eyes, and saw before him the angel Gabriel. “Read”, said the ghostly one, again. Mohammed again answered that he was illiterate, before asking, “What can I read?” The angel replied, “Read in the name of your Lord, the Creator, Who created man from a clot of blood! Read! Your Lord is most merciful, for he has taught men by pen, and revealed mysteries to them!”

The angel handed Mohammad a scroll, and when he awoke the next morning, the scroll was gone but he had memorized all that was written. Excitedly, he told his wife, who assured him he wasn’t stark crazy mad, and it was she who encouraged him to evangelize the angel’s words to the people of his hometown, Mecca. Similar to the Jesus narrative, his people laughed him out of town, and he moved to Medina in 622 A.D.

Over the course of the next eight years, his small army of disciples had grown into a force to be reckoned with. The Muslims had arrived, and Mohammad was hell-bent on vengefully taking control of his home city, the town that had earlier rejected him. The Muslims attacked the pagan caravans and, before long, had forced their way to the shrine in Mecca. The Meccans surrendered without much of a fight, and the would-be prophet had prominent opponents (six men and four women) murdered.

(It’s hard to deny that Islam is rooted in conquest. This outlook permeates throughout the Koran; whereby for all practical purposes, a great majority of the verses, contained within each of the 114 Suras (chapters), begins with “make war with the unbeliever”)

Mohammad’s show of power impressed Arabs everywhere, and thus it served to unite the Peninsula behind him. Two years later, Mohammad announced he had “perfected” the new religion, Islam. Shortly afterwards, mass conversions began. Learning from Christianity’s appeal, Mohammad promised his followers an afterlife, encouraging the pagans to banish their time-consuming ceremonially weighty practices to follow the Jewish God version 2.1.
While the article above is written in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek style, it does hit the major points of Islam's origins.

There's no question that the Koran reads like a bunch of disjointed, out-of-context passages taken from the Bible, which - as noted above - predates the Koran by hundreds of years.

Muslims must deny this, however, so that their own "holy book" doesn't come off looking like a cheap imitation of the real thing.
 
K

kidcanman

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#6
"Full dogmatic articulations of the canons were not made until the Council of Trent of 1546 for Roman Catholicism,[39] the Thirty-Nine Articles of 1563 for the Church of England and the Synod of Jerusalem of 1672 for the Greek Orthodox."
Wikipidea.

And of course if I have to I can get into more detail about this, but actually I consider it common knowledge. The KJV of the bible has undergone many revisions and I'm sure other versions have as well. Therefore what the Christians have now is not the "Book" that is referred to in the Quran.

As you stated your second article is written in "tongue-and-cheek" style. That is because it is not a scholarly article. It does not cite any sources and any objective reader has no reason to believe what your second article says.
 
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#7
That is because it is not a scholarly article.
You don't accept those, either. :lol

Again, though, you deny the veracity of early canonization of the Bible because - as I wrote above:

"Muslims must deny this so that their own "holy book" doesn't come off looking like a cheap imitation of the real thing."

No one should expect any less than this.

Don't blame me because your religion suffers from a credibility problem.
 
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#8
Allah is not "another name for the God of the Bible". Allah is an abstract term used to denote the one true god of the universe. We Muslims have no reason to believe in the "God of the Bible".

Muslims don't claim that the Quran was inspired by a "Triune" god. That is why the Quran denies the trinity, a divine Christ etc. (the Quran is not "devoted" to these topics).

You should trust the text because your statement that the text is not inspired by god is false.

I created this thread as an extenuating of the "Who is Allah?"

I have had several debates with fellow Christians (both in person & thru this forum) who assert that the Muslim worship of Allah is analogous (albeit misguided) to the Christian worship of Jehovah. In other words, that Muslims & Christians worship the same God.

As you pointed out, the Qur'an explicitly denies the fundamental aspects of who God is. You admit that Islam vehemently denies Christ's role as redeemer & intercessor, let alone that God is a Father who gave His only Son.

Though you believe it has been corrupted, the Bible makes it clear that God loves you, kidcanman, and He desires to maintain a mutual love-relationship with you. However, this relationship must be built on a solid foundation consisting of humbling yourself by confessing your sins and, accepting Jesus as your Lord & Savior.

As I am sure you agree, If God is righteous & just, a persons actions/behavior must have consequences according to what God declares as right or wrong. However, as imperfect beings, we are incapable of following perfectly the commandments of God. Therefore, we are all worthy of eternal damnation as punishment for disobeying God.

Yet, God is not only just, but merciful as well. It is at the Cross that God's justice & mercy "kiss". Jesus voluntarily left the glories of heaven so as to receive the punishment we so rightly deserve. So that through Him, we may nail our sinful selves to the Cross & be born again in His Spirit.

Anger & pain are apparent in your posts, kidcanman. Where such animosity is manifesting from, I cannot say for sure. However, I can say with certainty that God does not expect you to tally up enough good deeds in order to outweigh your sins. Jesus' crucifixion & resurrection is the ultimate "good deed" of which you only need to believe is true.

You are absolutely correct in stating that the God of the Qur'an cannot be the God of the Bible. Why? Because as the Gospel of John testifies:

God so loved the world that He gave His only Son. That whoever believes in Him shall be saved. God did not send His Son to condemn the world rather, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but, have everlasting life.

We pray for you, kidcanman. Not so that you may renounce Islam but, so you may hear the voice of the Good Shepard calling His lost sheep. So that you may accept the love God has for you & the free gift of salvation through His Son.
 
K

kidcanman

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#9
Drummer4Christ,

I don't agree with your outlook on life but I also am not so arrogant as to think that I have all the answers. Which means that I am always willing to contemplate on another's point of view.


I'll take your words with good faith.
 
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#10
Drummer4Christ,

I don't agree with your outlook on life but I also am not so arrogant as to think that I have all the answers. Which means that I am always willing to contemplate on another's point of view.


I'll take your words with good faith.
That is the answer, my Muslim friend:

Faith.

Think of Abraham. Other than being a prophet of Allah, I do not know what the Qur'an says about him. However, I do know that the Bible says in the Book of Genesis that he was a man of great faith. How so?

I'm sure you are familiar with Isaac & Ishmael. Again, other than Ishmael (which, in Hebrew means "God listens") being the preferred son of Abraham, I do not know what the Qur'an says about them. I do know that, according to Genesis, God promised Abraham a son by his wife ,Sarah, whom would descend many offspring & sire a great nation. However, when Isaac is still a boy, God tells Abraham to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering. So, Abraham prepares the alter, binds Isaac, and is about to do as God commanded when the angel of the LORD appears to stop Abraham. Instead, God provides a ram, stuck in some bushes, as a burnt offering & Abraham is told to release Isaac.

In the NT, Paul writes that this faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness. In other words, it was not Abrahams "good work" but, his faith.

Just as Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son (who was also willing) God too, sacrificed His Son.
 

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