YOUR son piercing his ear(s): would you let him?

[Free]

Free,

Well I think there are various Christian male musicians who happen to wear earrings. Including members of some of the more well known Christian groups.

Doesn't mean it's any less cheesy or okay for Christians to follow. I just have to seriously question the reason behind it all and the only reason I can think of is: to fit in. And that is precisely one of the things that we are to be wary of.

I don't think that ear piercing is inherently feminine, either, because some men in the Bible had them.

Yeah, they were slaves:

Exo 21:4 If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
Exo 21:5 But if the servant plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,'
Exo 21:6 then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him forever.

Do you have any Scripture you can provide?

(Maybe to some extent it's a case of what ppl are accustomed to?)

Perhaps. I don't know any male with a pierced ear.

 

[farouk]

Free:

Well, some of us do know them. (Personally I don't think it's anything they need to feel somehow negatively self-conscious about.)

Fact is, there are a lot of Christian men out there who at some stage or other have acquired earrings, and of course Christian women, too. I don't think we need to look for any deep, mysterious reason why Christian women pierce their ears, either.

But in any case, in Psalm 40, where Messianically the Psalmist says, Mine ears hast thou opened; the word in Hebrew, opened = digged, (i.e., pierced).

In Philippians 2, the Lord Jesus is said to have taken upon Him 'the form of a servant'; it may be suggested that at least figuratively his ear was pierced.

(But I guess I ought not to labor the point too much. Maybe let other ppl have more to say...)

 

[Bazz1040]

B:

Well, this is just fine, as far as you are concerned.

Perfectly fine.

But personally I don't fundamentally see much difference between a young man wearing a necktie for an important occasion, or putting a stud in his ear for the same occasion. (High school graduation, or whatever, etc.)

I don't wear any kind of jewelry either.......it does not appeal to me. The only value these things (jewelry) have is the money one can get for it when one is in need of some cash.<O</O

 

[Free]

Free:

Well, some of us do know them. (Personally I don't think it's anything they need to feel somehow negatively self-conscious about.)

Fact is, there are a lot of Christian men out there who at some stage or other have acquired earrings, and of course Christian women, too. I don't think we need to look for any deep, mysterious reason why Christian women pierce their ears, either.

But in any case, in Psalm 40, where Messianically the Psalmist says, Mine ears hast thou opened; the word in Hebrew, opened = digged, (i.e., pierced).

In Philippians 2, the Lord Jesus is said to have taken upon Him 'the form of a servant'; it may be suggested that at least figuratively his ear was pierced.

(But I guess I ought not to labor the point too much. Maybe let other ppl have more to say...)

Do you not find it interesting that in Scripture the only mention (that I have found anyway) of a man having his ears pierced is in the context of slavery?

 

[farouk]

Do you not find it interesting that in Scripture the only mention (that I have found anyway) of a man having his ears pierced is in the context of slavery?

Free:

There is the figurative aspect of the Lord Jesus who 'took upon Him the form of a servant'.

And there is the hymn:

"Go, labor on. Spend and be spent.
Thy joy to do the Master's will.
It is the way the Master went,
Should not the Servant tread it still."

There is a sense that if we are following in the footsteps of the Servant character of the Lord Jesus, pierced ears - figuratively or (dare I say it?) even literally in some cases - are not something we somehow ought to be ashamed of.

 

[Alabaster]

Do you not find it interesting that in Scripture the only mention (that I have found anyway) of a man having his ears pierced is in the context of slavery?

Those who reject piercings and markings for this reason, I highly respect.

 

[farouk]

Those who reject piercings and markings for this reason, I highly respect.

Alabaster:

Yes, I can respect this view point, too.

I guess from the other perspective there is also a related reason why for the believer and follower of the Perfect Servant, pierced ears should be nothing to be ashamed of, by that reckoning, too.

(If this makes sense?)

 

[Free]

But in any case, in Psalm 40, where Messianically the Psalmist says, Mine ears hast thou opened; the word in Hebrew, opened = digged, (i.e., pierced).

In Philippians 2, the Lord Jesus is said to have taken upon Him 'the form of a servant'; it may be suggested that at least figuratively his ear was pierced.

There is the figurative aspect of the Lord Jesus who 'took upon Him the form of a servant'.

And there is the hymn:

"Go, labor on. Spend and be spent.
Thy joy to do the Master's will.
It is the way the Master went,
Should not the Servant tread it still."

There is a sense that if we are following in the footsteps of the Servant character of the Lord Jesus, pierced ears - figuratively or (dare I say it?) even literally in some cases - are not something we somehow ought to be ashamed of.

That is a huge stretch, to say the least. Psalm 40:6 states:

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you do not desire, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. (NRSV)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. (KJV)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require. (NKJV)

Psa 40:6 In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. (ESV)

Psa 40:6 You do not delight in sacrifice and offering; You open my ears to listen. You do not ask for a whole burnt offering or a sin offering. (HSBC)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; My ears You have opened; Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required. (NASB)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You do not desire, nor have You delight in them; You have given me the capacity to hear and obey [Your law, a more valuable service than] burnt offerings and sin offerings [which] You do not require. (AMP)

Psa 40:6 (40:7) Sacrifice and meal-offering Thou hast no delight in; mine ears hast Thou opened; burnt-offering and sin-offering hast Thou not required. (JPS)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and present Thou hast not desired, Ears Thou hast prepared for me, Burnt and sin-offering Thou hast not asked. (YLT)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifices and offerings are not what please you; gifts and payment for sin are not what you demand. But you made me willing to listen and obey. (CEV)

Psa 40:6 You were not pleased with sacrifices and offerings. You have dug out two ears for me. You did not ask for burnt offerings or sacrifices for sin. (GW)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifices and grain offerings you don't want; burnt offerings and sin offerings you don't demand. Instead, you have given me open ears; (CJB)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. (NIV)

There aren't many other versions that I have to put down but the point is made. Out of 13 translations, only one says pierced. But even then, using the multiple translations, one can really see what is being said.

In all honesty, it really seems to me as though your parents don't want you to get tats or piercings and you are frantically digging for a "biblical" reason to give them.

 

[farouk]

That is a huge stretch, to say the least. Psalm 40:6 states:

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you do not desire, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. (NRSV)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. (KJV)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require. (NKJV)

Psa 40:6 In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. (ESV)

Psa 40:6 You do not delight in sacrifice and offering; You open my ears to listen. You do not ask for a whole burnt offering or a sin offering. (HSBC)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; My ears You have opened; Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required. (NASB)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You do not desire, nor have You delight in them; You have given me the capacity to hear and obey [Your law, a more valuable service than] burnt offerings and sin offerings [which] You do not require. (AMP)

Psa 40:6 (40:7) Sacrifice and meal-offering Thou hast no delight in; mine ears hast Thou opened; burnt-offering and sin-offering hast Thou not required. (JPS)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and present Thou hast not desired, Ears Thou hast prepared for me, Burnt and sin-offering Thou hast not asked. (YLT)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifices and offerings are not what please you; gifts and payment for sin are not what you demand. But you made me willing to listen and obey. (CEV)

Psa 40:6 You were not pleased with sacrifices and offerings. You have dug out two ears for me. You did not ask for burnt offerings or sacrifices for sin. (GW)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifices and grain offerings you don't want; burnt offerings and sin offerings you don't demand. Instead, you have given me open ears; (CJB)

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. (NIV)

There aren't many other versions that I have to put down but the point is made. Out of 13 translations, only one says pierced. But even then, using the multiple translations, one can really see what is being said.

In all honesty, it really seems to me as though your parents don't want you to get tats or piercings and you are frantically digging for a "biblical" reason to give them.

free:

The Hebrew says 'digged' in Psalm 40, where the King James says 'opened'.

This is a fact.

The bondservant allusion here is clear.

Re. my parents, my father passed away years ago, and my wife and I see my elderly mother from time to time, but you do not know anything about my domestic circumstances.

(Happy New Year!)

 

[Free]

free:

The Hebrew says 'digged' in Psalm 40, where the King James says 'opened'.

This is a fact.

The bondservant allusion here is clear.

First and foremost, it is a reference to how Christ did what the Father told him (John 5:30; 14:24). The use of "digged" and "opened" are the same--God "dug" ears so he would have ears to ear; God "opened" his ears to hear. To "dig" is to "open." It is significant that nearly every translation says the same thing.

A second reference could be to Christ being a bondservant. However, it is only speaking metaphorically. There is no way one could conclude that Jesus literally had his ears, or an ear, pierced. Again, the only reference to ears actually being pierced is in regards to slavery, so it is unlikely that any Jew or Gentile believer who wasn't a slave would have had their ears pierced. And even then, there is no mention of something being inserted into that hole, much less jewelry. Makes me wonder what the early Christians would think of Christians now with their pierced ears, etc--taking a sign of slavery and making it a fashion statement.

It is interesting that Heb 10:5, in quoting Ps 40:6 from the Septuagint, says "Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me." This is also in line with God digging or making ears.

All I am saying is that although people are free to pierce their ears and parents are free to let their kids get their ears pierced, they all need to seriously consider what the Bible says and question the motives for wanting done.

And a happy New Year to you as well!

 

[farouk]

First and foremost, it is a reference to how Christ did what the Father told him (John 5:30; 14:24). The use of "digged" and "opened" are the same--God "dug" ears so he would have ears to ear; God "opened" his ears to hear. To "dig" is to "open." It is significant that nearly every translation says the same thing.

A second reference could be to Christ being a bondservant. However, it is only speaking metaphorically. There is no way one could conclude that Jesus literally had his ears, or an ear, pierced. Again, the only reference to ears actually being pierced is in regards to slavery, so it is unlikely that any Jew or Gentile believer who wasn't a slave would have had their ears pierced. And even then, there is no mention of something being inserted into that hole, much less jewelry. Makes me wonder what the early Christians would think of Christians now with their pierced ears, etc--taking a sign of slavery and making it a fashion statement.

It is interesting that Heb 10:5, in quoting Ps 40:6 from the Septuagint, says "Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me." This is also in line with God digging or making ears.

All I am saying is that although people are free to pierce their ears and parents are free to let their kids get their ears pierced, they all need to seriously consider what the Bible says and question the motives for wanting done.

And a happy New Year to you as well!

free, FYI:

"Notice that verse 6 mentions HIS EARS THOU HAST OPENED.

• The actual Hebrew term literally means DIGGED, or BORED, just like the love salve’s ear was bored while pressed against the door of the Master’s house.
• The manner in which this ties us with the love of Jesus Christ is found by considering what Ex 21 said in light of how Hebrews 10 quotes this Psalm." MF Blume, http://mikeblume.com/sep1910a.htm

 

[Free]

free, FYI:

"Notice that verse 6 mentions HIS EARS THOU HAST OPENED.

• The actual Hebrew term literally means DIGGED, or BORED, just like the love salve’s ear was bored while pressed against the door of the Master’s house.
• The manner in which this ties us with the love of Jesus Christ is found by considering what Ex 21 said in light of how Hebrews 10 quotes this Psalm." MF Blume, SERMONS

I am well aware of what the Hebrew term literally means. However, you are assuming there is only one meaning and one interpretation of it when I have shown that there is another meaning and one that is more likely to be the primary meaning.

And regardless, there is no precedent or even example set for one to pierce their ears. This is a metaphor for Christ and no where in Scripture is it mentioned that a man has his ear literally pierced other than in regards to slavery. And as I stated already, it is never even mentioned if anything was ever put into the hole in the slave's ear.

You are trying to make Scripture support something that it doesn't and that is dangerous.

 

[farouk]

I am well aware of what the Hebrew term literally means. However, you are assuming there is only one meaning and one interpretation of it when I have shown that there is another meaning and one that is more likely to be the primary meaning.

And regardless, there is no precedent or even example set for one to pierce their ears. This is a metaphor for Christ and no where in Scripture is it mentioned that a man has his ear literally pierced other than in regards to slavery. And as I stated already, it is never even mentioned if anything was ever put into the hole in the slave's ear.

You are trying to make Scripture support something that it doesn't and that is dangerous.

free:

There are many other commentators who quote a very similar view which I copied in my previous post. I just didn't copy them all.

Your language left me somewhat puzzled at the end of your post, however. What exactly am I supposedly saying that Scripture says?

 

[Free]

free:

There are many other commentators who quote a very similar view which I copied in my previous post. I just didn't copy them all.

Your language left me somewhat puzzled at the end of your post, however. What exactly am I supposedly saying that Scripture says?

Unless I am mistaken, you seem to be using this reference to pierced ears to support your argument that men in Scripture had pierced ears, and therefore it is okay for men now to pierce their ears.

I will not say that it is wrong for men to pierce their ears but there is absolutely no Scriptural support for doing so and any mention of it is in a negative light. It is just a dangerous practice to use vague verses to make them support something, or say something, they do not. That's all I'm saying.

 

[farouk]

Unless I am mistaken, you seem to be using this reference to pierced ears to support your argument that men in Scripture had pierced ears, and therefore it is okay for men now to pierce their ears.

I will not say that it is wrong for men to pierce their ears but there is absolutely no Scriptural support for doing so and any mention of it is in a negative light. It is just a dangerous practice to use vague verses to make them support something, or say something, they do not. That's all I'm saying.

Free:

Okay so I've been reviewing what I said and what you said.

You rightly acknowledge that willing bondservants had pierced ears in the Bible. (In one of the Old Testament passages it says that willing female bondservants as well as male ones had pierced ears.) I think you also rightly recognize that it's instructive to consider the bondservant character of the Lord Jesus.

You have also said, above: "I will not say that it is wrong for men to pierce their ears".

I'm still a bit puzzled as to what I have supposedly said is either unScriptural or 'dangerous'. They say that iron sharpens iron. I'm here to learn.

What specifically do you think I am making certain verses say, that they are not actually saying?

Anyway, young men as well as young women have been getting pierced ears now for a long time, and for example, from a practical point of view if a young man's mom has at least 2 earrings in each ear — as so many moms do — it may seem to some young men to be somehow against natural justice if mom doesn't let him have even one stud in one ear. (Or am I missing something?)

(There's a hymn somewhere about getting ears pierced more than once, even; I should try to dig up the words.)

God bless you.

 

[farouk]

Free:

PS: This is part of the hymn I mentioned:

My Master, lead me to Thy door;
Pierce this now willing ear once more:
Thy bonds are freedom; let me stay
With Thee, to toil, endure, obey.

(Handley Moule)

 

[farouk]

PS:

Does anyone else out there have any comment - positive or critical?

I guess it's a live issue for quite a lot of families, anyway...