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You got it right, dude. The only belief system wackier than marxism/communism is anarchism. That one is a real hoot! We don't need no stinkin' government!
No, he got it completely and utterly wrong, and so did you. Anarchism means "without a leader/ruler," not a complete lack of organisation. Anarchism strives for an organisational system that is non-hierarchical and employs participatory democratic practices to ensure the people have a say in how their lives are governed more than once every four years (or however many years it may be between elections, wherever you are). Consider Anarchist Catalonia: they were anarchist syndicalists, which if you'd like to think about it another way essentially consists of a confederation of communes.

For some perspective, consider reading "The Kingdom of God is Within You" by Tolstoy.

As soon as you attack their delusions, they go ballistic! It's funny to watch. Yes, you are right, they have a "belief system". That's obvious in the case of marxists and anarchists. It never occurs to them that whenever their nutty beliefs are put into practice it's a disaster then there must be something wrong with those beliefs. But, no, they don't. They continue to cling to their beliefs. Why? They're looking for a man-made heaven on earth - the "worker's paradise". Talk about religious fantasies! :screwloose
What is this tripe? Are you for real?

you mean? where is it. yup that was real peaceful at quick glance.
Your sarcasm isn't appreciated. Read Orwell's account of Anarchist Catalonia.

done by violence, just strike and bring down capitalism for no reason other then because its evil
Am I actually hearing this from a Christian? "Just strike and bring down x for no reason other than because it's evil" ? - this might as well be a hobby of Christian fundamentalists.

EDIT: and define evil. Socialists don't use that term very often in this context, and I'd like to know why you are.

yet have no organisation to deal with the transition. nice.
Anarchy != no organisation. Anarchist Catalonia was an incredibly successful society (I'd say state, except it wasn't one) I'd expect you to at least know the definition of anarchism before you start spouting lies about it.

is spain a socialist nation? nope. once more a failure.
That's because the Franco and the fascists came in and murdered them all. And then Spain was a fascist nation until Franco died roughly 35 years later.
 
No, he got it completely and utterly wrong, and so did you. Anarchism means "without a leader/ruler," not a complete lack of organisation. Anarchism strives for an organisational system that is non-hierarchical and employs participatory democratic practices to ensure the people have a say in how their lives are governed more than once every four years (or however many years it may be between elections, wherever you are). Consider Anarchist Catalonia: they were anarchist syndicalists, which if you'd like to think about it another way essentially consists of a confederation of communes.

For some perspective, consider reading "The Kingdom of God is Within You" by Tolstoy.

What is this tripe? Are you for real?


Your sarcasm isn't appreciated. Read Orwell's account of Anarchist Catalonia.

Am I actually hearing this from a Christian? "Just strike and bring down x for no reason other than because it's evil" ? - this might as well be a hobby of Christian fundamentalists.

EDIT: and define evil. Socialists don't use that term very often in this context, and I'd like to know why you are.

Anarchy != no organisation. Anarchist Catalonia was an incredibly successful society (I'd say state, except it wasn't one) I'd expect you to at least know the definition of anarchism before you start spouting lies about it.

That's because the Franco and the fascists came in and murdered them all. And then Spain was a fascist nation until Franco died roughly 35 years later.

ARMED arnachrist?! by violence they did that. tell me again why havent you espoused that?

Often I used to gaze round the wintry landscape and marvel at the futility of it all. The inconclusiveness of such a kind of war! Earlier, about October, there had been savage fighting for all these hills; then, because the lack of men and arms, especially artillery, made any large-scale operation impossible, each army had dug itself in and settled down on the hill-tops it had won. Over to our right there was a small outpost, also P.O.U.M., and on the spur to our left, at seven o'clock of us, a P.S.U.C. position faced a taller spur with several small Fascist posts dotted on its peaks. The so-called line zigzagged to and fro in a pattern that would have been quite unintelligible if every position had not flown a flag. The P.O.U.M. and P.S.U.C. flags were red, those of the Anarchists red and black; the Fascists generally flew the monarchist flag (red-yellow-red), but occasionally they flew the flag of the Republic (red-yellow-purple). The scenery was stupendous, if you could forget that every mountain-top was occupied by troops and was therefore littered with tin cans and crusted with dung. To the right of us the sierra bent south-eastwards and made way for the wide, veined valley that stretched across to Huesca. In the middle of the plain a few tiny cubes sprawled like a throw of dice; this was the town of Robres, which was in Loyalist possession. Often in the mornings the valley was hidden under seas of cloud, out of which the hills rose flat and blue, giving the landscape a strange resemblance to a photographic negative. Beyond Huesca there were more hills of the same formation as our own, streaked with a pattern of snow which altered day by day. In the far distance the monstrous peaks of the Pyrenees, where the snow never melts, seemed to float upon nothing. Even down in the plain everything looked dead and bare. The hills opposite us were grey and wrinkled like the skins of elephants. Almost always the sky was empty of birds. I do not think I have ever seen a country where there were so few birds. The only birds one saw at any time were a kind of magpie, and the coveys of partridges that startled one at night with their sudden whirring, and, very rarely, the flights of eagles that drifted slowly over, generally followed by rifle-shots which they did not deign to notice
yup a peacful lot eh?

thanks for proving my point it cant be done without violence!


think about it the rich are just going to yeild there wealth.?

i thought anarchy were peaceful?

have you actually been to war? if they organised then that means you have to have someone to lead. a mob of guys with guns that just attack a building isnt a organised force by no means.

you mean this?

At this time and until much later the Catalan militias were still on the same basis as they had been at the beginning of the war. In the early days of Franco's revolt the militias had been hurriedly raised by the various trade unions and political parties; each was essentially a political organization, owing allegiance to its party as much as to the central Government. When the Popular Army, which was a ‘non-political’ army organized on more or less ordinary lines, was raised at the beginning of 1937, the party militias were theoretically incorporated in it. But for a long time the only changes that occurred were on paper; the new Popular Army troops did not reach the Aragon front in any numbers till June, and until that time the militia-system remained unchanged. The essential point of the system was social equality between officers and men. Everyone from general to private drew the same pay, ate the same food, wore the same clothes, and mingled on terms of complete equality. If you wanted to slap the general commanding the division on the back and ask him for a cigarette, you could do so, and no one thought it curious. In theory at any rate each militia was a democracy and not a hierarchy. It was understood that orders had to be obeyed, but it was also understood that when you gave an order you gave it as comrade to comrade and not as superior to inferior. There were officers and N.C.O.S. but there was no military rank in the ordinary sense; no titles, no badges, no heel-clicking and saluting. They had attempted to produce within the militias a sort of temporary working model of the classless society. Of course there was no perfect equality, but there was a nearer approach to it than I had ever seen or than I would have thought conceivable in time of war.

ha. lets see the russian model there most effective army.lol the one that couldnt seem to hold afghanistan

btw i'm nco and we only pull rank when we have to in war. no locking of heels.

its the american model of doing it the private should know my job and take the reigns when i'm dead. and when i give orders its not as a superior being but as someone who has the right to lead by knowledge and he obeys it as he has to by the fact he hasnt earned that right yet. i am not better then him, in fact if a lower ranking man knows something he gets to teach and share his knowledge. its called survival.

interesting i bet that so called model of yours there is just as much the same as my army.

did said militia vote to take a hill? no i think not i bet some leader said this is our objective.and they said we will take it that hill.lol the army is brotherhood at times and thought not perfect its a lot better than you think on equality then you think. sure theres the rhip thing but i bet that if the anarchists had a man who save thier buts a few times they tend put him on higher level of respect and his voice carried weight over some newbie foot soldier.
 
well then i can rip that army of equality to shreds.first off you can't be friends with man you may have send to his death and be impartial.

favoritism shall incurr. and we have had problems in army for yrs over that.fraternasation probalby gets more soldiers killed by "friendly' fire then you would ever think. guys fight over girls and i have seen it and men die over who is more favored.

so i know by expericience that idea wont last in any long term conflict(i'm giving the idea that your needed army would disband after its gone) but i doubt that another army or other group would be peaceful for very long. keep in mind that sometime men unite for a common enemy and then go back to infighting when its all said and done.

next, when punishment is metted you wont be as hard on your friend as you would a stranger to the unit.

do keep in mind i have a lot of military epericience. almost 20 yrs with time in combet. and yours?
 
It is based on class-loyalty, whereas the discipline of a bourgeois conscript army is based ultimately on fear. (The Popular Army that replaced the militias was midway between the two types.) In the militias the bullying and abuse that go on in an ordinary army would never have been tolerated for a moment. The normal military punishments existed, but they were only invoked for very serious offences. When a man refused to obey an order you did not immediately get him punished; you first appealed to him in the name of comradeship. Cynical people with no experience of handling men will say instantly that this would never ‘work’, but as a matter of fact it does ‘work’ in the long run. The discipline of even the worst drafts of militia visibly improved as time went on. In January the job of keeping a dozen raw recruits up to the mark almost turned my hair grey. In May for a short while I was acting-lieutenant in command of about thirty men, English and Spanish. We had all been under fire for months, and I never had the slightest difficulty in getting an order obeyed or in getting men to volunteer for a dangerous job.

interesting. i'm sure if we had that issue here in my ao of combat we could say the same. i have numerous stories of avoiding the punishments if need be. unlike the european armies , our is based on alot of what napolean did and also what we added to it.the germans called us nuts for training a private to do an officers job and it works.

we still do that today. if i as squad leader dont tell the soldier the mission or train him in my job as much as possible then i may cause the mission to fail.

you may find that the u.s. military is less "borgueoise' then you think. is it perfect no, is like the popular militia with equal pay. no. why because why would you as a person want to do more and not be rewarded for it? sometimes its needed as that has been the case in our history of the revolutionary army.

google the yankee doodle and what that was and you will see that our citizens fought with no pay. but given enough time and periods of war or length of conflict human nature will come through as no man is perfect and men lust and you cant tell me that somehow greed and all that will be eliminated by anarchism.
its not.
 
Keep in mind that most of those who hold these believes do so strictly because of textbook learning. Most haven't even hit 25 yet! It's easy for the affluent to hold these convictions.

I know alot of people over 30 who also hold to those beliefs and they do so because of their "ideological perfect world" envisions in their heads.

They also want the gov't to take care of them and refuse to take accountability for themselves.

Another point, is that the intelligent, highly schooled individuals, not all, but many tend to believe if we would only listen to them, our problems would be solved, if you look into it, the areas with those individuals tend to be the most liberal areas in the US, so your textbook point seems to fit here.
 
Checkable Biblical Accuracy - Table - Does God Exist?

follow that link.

and this one please

How Accurate is the Bible? | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

read them then we can discuss, i'll read something of yours

Opinion. . . .assumption. . . .continued circular logic . . . .including "historocities" from non-biblical sources that are often seen as non-credible by those in religious studies. The term "christ" wasn't ONLY given to "one man". It was a generic term of that day.

But even IF there were some truth in the history of someone of the name of Jesus, that doesn't mean that any of the biblical accounts are automatically true [from Old Testament to New Testament]. Embellishments are rarely provable . . . and was often the case where revisionist histories were created.

Regardless, . . . I don't care about the ancient past. What IS important is right now. I will ask it again...

I keep hearing about this "truth", . . . . but never see anything credible/compelling being submitted. :confused:
 
Opinion. . . .assumption. . . .continued circular logic . . . .including "historocities" from non-biblical sources that are often seen as non-credible by those in religious studies. The term "christ" wasn't ONLY given to "one man". It was a generic term of that day.

But even IF there were some truth in the history of someone of the name of Jesus, that doesn't mean that any of the biblical accounts are automatically true [from Old Testament to New Testament]. Embellishments are rarely provable . . . and was often the case where revisionist histories were created.

Regardless, . . . I don't care about the ancient past. What IS important is right now. I will ask it again...

I keep hearing about this "truth", . . . . but never see anything credible/compelling being submitted. :confused:

HA D, you're trying to find truth on a forum? You're looking in the wrong place and you will be guaranteed you won't find it unless you go straight to God and ask Him for it. We are not the ones who reveal truth, we can present it all we want, but He is the one who opens hearts, eyes and minds to that Truth.

You need to stop trying to use intellect when searching for something spiritual, go read what God says about the intellect of this world.
 
HA D, you're trying to find truth on a forum? You're looking in the wrong place and you will be guaranteed you won't find it unless you go straight to God and ask Him for it. We are not the ones who reveal truth, we can present it all we want, but He is the one who opens hearts, eyes and minds to that Truth.

You need to stop trying to use intellect when searching for something spiritual, go read what God says about the intellect of this world.

I know what the BIBLE [which has no evidence of it being written by anything other than simple men] says about the "intellect of man". That isn't the issue here. I'm sure that, when that verse was written, the "intellect of man" was pretty poor. Still, not the issue.

As for "asking god", . . . having done so for MANY years, with only silence to show for it, . . . to continue "asking" would be completely irrational. I tried "ringing god's doorbell" for longer than I can remember. If he's interested in me knowing him, . . . he has my address.
 
I know what the BIBLE [which has no evidence of it being written by anything other than simple men] says about the "intellect of man". That isn't the issue here. I'm sure that, when that verse was written, the "intellect of man" was pretty poor. Still, not the issue.

As for "asking god", . . . having done so for MANY years, with only silence to show for it, . . . to continue "asking" would be completely irrational. I tried "ringing god's doorbell" for longer than I can remember. If he's interested in me knowing him, . . . he has my address.

HA D, it's like you want God to leave little bread crumbs so you can find Him. Take a look around, look how PERFECT the universe is placed, see the beauty of nature, see all of nature's animals, spiders, bugs, ocean life....and then try to mathematically prove this to happen by chance. HA
The number is astronomical and impossible to achieve. It's harder to believe evolution than that God created it all.
Your faith is in science and man and it's fleeting.
 
HA D, it's like you want God to leave little bread crumbs so you can find Him. Take a look around, look how PERFECT the universe is placed, see the beauty of nature, see all of nature's animals, spiders, bugs, ocean life....and then try to mathematically prove this to happen by chance. HA
The number is astronomical and impossible to achieve. It's harder to believe evolution than that God created it all.
Your faith is in science and man and it's fleeting.

At BEST, . . . [and if you were right, for the sake of argument] it is STILL a complete detachment from people. It is STILL "me believing what MEN have stated as being true, and placed into a biblical canon". I have a bit of faith in mankind, but not that much. Men are often highly motivated by what will increase THEM and their bottom line. This has always been the case, and is still so today. It is just religions that change over the expanse of time.

As for "the natural world", this has no bearing on a determination of religious belief. For sake of argument, if we assume that "the universe/world COULDN'T have have come about by chance [which ISN'T what evolution teaches, by the way], then you still must give evidence that YOUR god was the cause.

Regardless, the universe/world is governed by physical principles that must produce the eventual outcome that they did. It only appears to be "perfect" because of these natural laws that are still in play today. Physical forces govern life. If something was different in the past, life would have been different than what we have. But it is of no matter. None of your "evidence" quoted above is credible/compelling.
 
At BEST, . . . [and if you were right, for the sake of argument] it is STILL a complete detachment from people. It is STILL "me believing what MEN have stated as being true...
How is this any different than say a history textbook? It was written by a human person with all his/her faults, weaknesses, misperceptions, ignorances, etc. Should I tell my kids not to believe anything in any of their schoolbooks because they were written by people stating these books are true?

... I have a bit of faith in mankind, but not that much. Men are often highly motivated by what will increase THEM and their bottom line. This has always been the case, and is still so today.
True, some people - not all - are often highly motivated by what will increase THEM and their bottom line: plumbers, bankers, car salesman, lawyers, drug companies, religionists as well as university researches and professors.

It is just religions that change over the expanse of time.
As do academics.

How do we know what to believe then? What is truth?
 
How is this any different than say a history textbook? It was written by a human person with all his/her faults, weaknesses, misperceptions, ignorances, etc. Should I tell my kids not to believe anything in any of their schoolbooks because they were written by people stating these books are true?

True, some people - not all - are often highly motivated by what will increase THEM and their bottom line: plumbers, bankers, car salesman, lawyers, drug companies, religionists as well as university researches and professors.

As do academics.

How do we know what to believe then? What is truth?

Good questions and comments, darrell.

For me, what makes history [in history books] different is because most of the time, they are not requiring a person change their lives and pay moneys to a religious organization in order to "keep from something bad happening to them in the future". Also, they do not include claims of the "supernatural". Where science changes as well, it is based upon the scientific method.

This isn't a slam on anyone's religion, just my own personal view of why I don't look at biblical stories as accurate in the way history books depict the life of some historical figure.

I hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from a bit more. :)
 
pay moneys to a religious organization in order to "keep from something bad happening to them in the future".
Where is this biblical? God is not for sale and he doesn't work for the highest bidder.

Also, they do not include claims of the "supernatural".
I wouldn't be too sure. Tthe idea that the universe and life itself is an accident of nature sounds pretty supernatural to me.
 
Where is this biblical? God is not for sale and he doesn't work for the highest bidder.

If you do not give your tithes and offerings, you are robbing god. It's in Malachi.

I wouldn't be too sure. Tthe idea that the universe and life itself is an accident of nature sounds pretty supernatural to me.

That is, at best, an outdated look at how scientist believe life came about. At worst, it is a normal misunderstanding of the evolutionary principle. Not by "accident" or "popped out of nothing". The way the physical laws work, life had to happen.
 
D:

Where are the Levites to give the tithes to? Malachi is Old Testament. Of course, if ppl want to give a tenth or more as a freewill offering, this is good.

But we need to concentrate on our relationship as sinners with God, through faith in the Lord Jesus.
 
D:

Where are the Levites to give the tithes to? Malachi is Old Testament. Of course, if ppl want to give a tenth or more as a freewill offering, this is good.

But we need to concentrate on our relationship as sinners with God, through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Getting off track a bit, . . . but many will say that the tithe is also required of believers today.

Even so, it is still a "supernaturally assumption based book of stories that requires complete devotion to it, and to tell others about Jesus, or you're not a true christian".
 
You are right that tithing is biblical but you didn't respond to what I was referring to. You said that we must "pay money to religious organizations to keep something bad from happening..."

That is NOT tithing. Tithing is not for the purpose of purchasing something.
 
You are right that tithing is biblical but you didn't respond to what I was referring to. You said that we must "pay money to religious organizations to keep something bad from happening..."

That is NOT tithing. Tithing is not for the purpose of purchasing something.

What I mean is that you are required to pay 10% to your church, according to the bible. If you don't, SOME denominations would state that "you may not actually be a christian, if you don't give joyfully".
 
What I mean is that you are required to pay 10% to your church, according to the bible. If you don't, SOME denominations would state that "you may not actually be a christian, if you don't give joyfully".

That is not true D, that is an old testament law. We now give what we can. Now if denominations say that, they are teaching false doctrine.Nowhere in the NT does it state anything about a 10% tithe.
 
That is not true D, that is an old testament law. We now give what we can. Now if denominations say that, they are teaching false doctrine.Nowhere in the NT does it state anything about a 10% tithe.

I understand that your denomination states that. Others would disagree with your denomination and provide scriptural backing.
 
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